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corgski posted:Electrical engineers are to electricians like computer scientists are to system administrators Not all of us!
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Sep 23, 2020 08:38
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corgski posted:Electrical engineers are to electricians like computer scientists are to system administrators I've had to explain a few times why I wouldn't do some wiring and step 1 is explaining that being an EE doesn't make me a good electrician. Similarly, when there's a wiring issue at work I order fixed in a panel, I want the people that do it every day to make it look nicer than I will in the five minutes I have to allocate to the task.
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Sep 23, 2020 14:45
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corgski posted:Electrical engineers are to electricians like computer scientists are to system administrators As someone who has a CS degree and works as a sysadmin (among other things) I take no exception at that gross generalization.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:01
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`Nemesis posted:“480 volt panel. Customer said the breaker kept tripping.”
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Sep 23, 2020 16:08
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I'm honestly surprised someone was dumb enough to do this but also not kill themselves in the process.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:31
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SpartanIvy posted:I'm honestly surprised someone was dumb enough to do this but also not kill themselves in the process. Yeah, it wouldn't take too much to mix the phases up and get a nice phase-to-phase short in your face.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:39
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Explosionface posted:Yeah, it wouldn't take too much to mix the phases up and get a nice phase-to-phase short in your face. Excellent username/post combo
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Sep 23, 2020 16:45
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My partner thinks if I switch off the breaker switch, and there's no power to the outlet or if the switch doesn't work, I'm all clear. Seeing as I don't have a voltage pen, I'd much rather just kill the main switch. Is it overkill to kill the main breaker switch, as opposed to turning off individual hubs to replace the electrical outlets and switches? I could go out and buy a voltage pen, but the way I figure it, if I turn off the main switch, it won't be an issue to begin with. When I was younger, I saw an electrician get badly injured while working on our breaker panel. It's made me extra cautious while working on electricity.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:20
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Bioshuffle posted:My partner thinks if I switch off the breaker switch, and there's no power to the outlet or if the switch doesn't work, I'm all clear. Seeing as I don't have a voltage pen, I'd much rather just kill the main switch. Go buy a drat voltage pen. Otherwise yes - main kill is the answer.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:29
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Bioshuffle posted:My partner thinks if I switch off the breaker switch, and there's no power to the outlet or if the switch doesn't work, I'm all clear. Seeing as I don't have a voltage pen, I'd much rather just kill the main switch. I'm either having deju vu or you posted this exact question about 3mo ago and my reply then was the same that it is now: those pens are like $15, isn't that worth it to prevent yourself from getting hurt? I'm sure you'd end up using it more than this one time.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:45
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Sirotan posted:I'm either having deju vu or you posted this exact question about 3mo ago and my reply then was the same that it is now: those pens are like $15, isn't that worth it to prevent yourself from getting hurt? I'm sure you'd end up using it more than this one time. Must have been someone else, as I haven't lived in this this house for 3 months. Would the pen serve any kind of purpose if I decide to turn off the main breaker to do the work?
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Sep 23, 2020 18:53
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Bioshuffle posted:Must have been someone else, as I haven't lived in this this house for 3 months. Would the pen serve any kind of purpose if I decide to turn off the main breaker to do the work? If someone has bypassed your main somehow, yes. (People do dumb stuff. See a few posts up.) It also reduces wear and tear on your expensive main breaker which isn't meant to be constantly thrown as a temporary disconnect.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:58
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Bioshuffle posted:Must have been someone else, as I haven't lived in this this house for 3 months. Would the pen serve any kind of purpose if I decide to turn off the main breaker to do the work? As it turns out, I am not having a stroke: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3131399&pagenumber=771&perpage=40#post506692851 The tester is to confirm the power is off and it is safe to work. Yes you can probably kill the power to your entire house instead and be safe (ofc you have no way to actually confirm that, you're just guessing). But you will also not having anywhere to plug in work lights, you'll have to reset all your clocks, fridge/freezer is off for however long you are working, no heat/AC, etc. It is overkill.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:59
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Bioshuffle posted:My partner thinks if I switch off the breaker switch, and there's no power to the outlet or if the switch doesn't work, I'm all clear. Seeing as I don't have a voltage pen, I'd much rather just kill the main switch. Obviously this is significantly more likely when you're trying to turn off a fixture or outlet from a switch rather than the breaker, it'd be a lot harder (though definitely not impossible) to miswire a circuit such that it was hot while the breaker was off. Still though, as noted the pens are cheap and then you can be sure it's off. If you really can't or don't want to buy one then shutting off the main is the most certain option.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:59
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Sirotan posted:As it turns out, I am not having a stroke: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3131399&pagenumber=771&perpage=40#post506692851 Me on the other hand.  Sorry about that. I've been juggling a million things but just getting around to tackling the light switches and things. I'll go ahead and order the pen now. Thanks for your help!
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Sep 23, 2020 19:01
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:This is truth. movax posted:Not all of us! wolrah posted:So if you flip a switch or breaker and the things connected to it stop working, the concern would be that someone managed to wire things backwards such that the power to the thing you want to work on was still hot and the switch/breaker was on the neutral side. Sirotan posted:I'm either having deju vu or you posted this exact question about 3mo ago and my reply then was the same that it is now: those pens are like $15, isn't that worth it to prevent yourself from getting hurt? I'm sure you'd end up using it more than this one time. * - This needs to be clarified because of the incredibly common myth that electricity takes the shortest path to ground. It does, but only because in a grounded system, electricity takes all paths to ground. You know, that whole bit about ohm's law and how resistors in series and parallel? It doesn't take a lot to stop your heart or gently caress it up, send you into afib, etc. ** - Sirotan is still a seal 
GWBBQ fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 02:12
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GWBBQ posted:My house is wired to 1950s standards where BX/MC/whatever the gently caress they called it back in those days was the standard and the metal cladding around the hot and neutral served as the ground. This is safe as long as it's done perfectly correctly. As I mentioned the other day, I brushed my neck against one circuit's metal cladding with my arm and the cladding for another with my neck. I already have a heart condition, I'm loving lucky it was right arm to right side of neck because you have a better chance if the most conductive path to ground* is not across my thoracic cavity. No, BX is not safe and can't be used as a ground. I've heard stories about it glowing red yet not tripping the breaker. AC was the upgrade from BX. You can spot it because it has a grounding strip, not wire, inside. MC has the wire.
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Sep 24, 2020 06:18
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kid sinister posted:No, BX is not safe and can't be used as a ground. I've heard stories about it glowing red yet not tripping the breaker. AC was the upgrade from BX. You can spot it because it has a grounding strip, not wire, inside. MC has the wire.
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Sep 25, 2020 00:05
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GWBBQ posted:I might be wrong on the terminology because there is a piece of metal that I think is the grounding strip you're talking about in there. At least I think there is in some of the wires. I'll be doing some more wiring on Saturday and will make sure to chop off a piece of this old stuff and flay it for you folks to autopsy before reusing it. I'll also take a couple of snaps inside boxes before closing them up since I do need to start a homeowner thread and you guys will school my rear end if I do anything less than 100% (Our house may be many things like in need of painting and insulation, but it will not become a Groverhaus) If it doesn't have a dedicated ground wire, don't use it for ground, period. What code might let you get away with isn't what you want to do yourself, especially when you won't know the signs that you hosed something up and now have a stablock style housefire waiting to happen.
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Sep 25, 2020 00:45
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I'm thinking of getting weird with the electrics in the garage again, but I would like to minimize cutting of drywall. My breaker panel is mounted on the exterior wall of my garage, and there is a large unused knockout right through the back of it. I am thinking of installing a pull box on the interior wall of the garage (surface mount), and then connecting it to the breaker panel straight through the wall with a very short bit of conduit. That way it would be trivial to wire up my weird poo poo with handy boxes. Is this dumb?
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Sep 25, 2020 04:05
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No, that's a good idea, you want a "chase nipple" or "close nipple" to connect your pull box to the knockout on the panel (if the box is metallic)
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Sep 25, 2020 06:51
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GWBBQ posted:I might be wrong on the terminology because there is a piece of metal that I think is the grounding strip you're talking about in there. At least I think there is in some of the wires. I'll be doing some more wiring on Saturday and will make sure to chop off a piece of this old stuff and flay it for you folks to autopsy before reusing it. I'll also take a couple of snaps inside boxes before closing them up since I do need to start a homeowner thread and you guys will school my rear end if I do anything less than 100% (Our house may be many things like in need of painting and insulation, but it will not become a Groverhaus) Leave it in the box and take a picture. Use a flashlight for more light. Don't be the guy who cuts wires too short in the box. Skinnymansbeerbelly posted:I'm thinking of getting weird with the electrics in the garage again, but I would like to minimize cutting of drywall. My breaker panel is mounted on the exterior wall of my garage, and there is a large unused knockout right through the back of it. I am thinking of installing a pull box on the interior wall of the garage (surface mount), and then connecting it to the breaker panel straight through the wall with a very short bit of conduit. That way it would be trivial to wire up my weird poo poo with handy boxes. Indoor or outdoor breaker panel? If it is outdoor, then it actually is dumb and not for the reason you think. If that's an exterior mount breaker box, then it needs a weather-tight knockout clamp for that new conduit. How will you mount that new, giant conduit clamp without removing the entire panel? Drill a giant hole for it and insert it from inside? How will you caulk around that new conduit through your garage wall without removing the entire panel? Got a side knockout instead? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Sep 25, 2020 |
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Sep 25, 2020 19:03
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It is a semiflush outdoor panel embedded in the stucco, so I think the rear of the panel should be ok, and very close to the drywall. I was thinking one of these and one of these, putting in the locknut for the nipple from the 3" hole I would have to cut in the drywall. What I'm not sure about is how to mount the box to wall itself, because it is away from studs and the outdoor panel is right beneath the surface.
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Sep 25, 2020 20:37
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Ok, first of all I'm not planning to do this myself! Just wondering what my options are. Additional information: this is in Austria, in case it is relevant. I have a small room that's just a toilet. It has a light switch and a lamp on the ceiling; it does not have an outlet. It is, of course, mostly tiled, and the light switch is cut out of the tiles. I checked the light switch and is is a single wire going in and out, via a cable canal from the corridor. I don't know where the other wire(s) are, but the switch works. There's two outlets on the other side of the wall in the living room, about 35cm up from the floor, and about 70cm apart, so one would be approximately below the light switch in the toilet, and the other further in. Incompetent sketch:  I'd love to be able to have an outlet near the back of the toilet room (e.g. where the second outlet is on the living room side, or further down/back). Is it likely that there's a cable canal behind those tiles where a quick drill & wiring would allow addition of an outlet? Is there something else I can do beyond just calling an electrician?
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Sep 25, 2020 21:43
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gschmidl posted:Ok, first of all I'm not planning to do this myself! Just wondering what my options are. Additional information: this is in Austria, in case it is relevant. Wow, a "water closet" that's an actual closet! Sorry, that's a really old American joke. When indoor plumbing became popular here, people would retrofit old buildings and would put the toilet in a closet like that. Over time, that little room became called the "water closet". That term is not used anymore except on blueprints. The entire bathroom is marked as W.C. for Water Closet, even though modern bathrooms are much larger than closets. That sounds like what we'd call a "switch leg" here in North America. Doing it like yours is with one hot wire incoming and one wire outgoing is actually no longer legal here for light switches. They need a neutral conductor now, even if it's not used. That neutral is for future support of switches with more features than just a mechanical on and off. In fact, in a situation like yours, a motion sensor switch could be useful. That way, the light would come on as soon as you open the door. I don't know what the construction is like in Austria, but is the cable in conduit or not? You can't make junctions that will be buried inside a wall. Junctions must be made at the boxes. It might be possible to access one of those boxes on the other side of the of the wall and add an outlet inside your closet, especially if they share a stud cavity. You might be able to do this yourself, depending on your local laws. Here it would be allowed, but I know that some countries only let electricians touch wiring. And then if it is allowed, sometimes the local government requires that you apply for a permit with them depending on the size of the job, etc. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 25, 2020 |
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Sep 25, 2020 22:11
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kid sinister posted:Wow, a "water closet" that's an actual closet! We do call it "WC" or "Toilette" still ("bathroom" is the room with the bath/shower but not necessarily the toilet), but I wasn't sure if the term would be known. kid sinister posted:That sounds like what we'd call a "switch leg" here in North America. Doing it like yours is with one hot wire incoming and one wire outgoing is actually no longer legal here for light switches. They need a neutral conductor now, even if it's not used. This is a house built in the 1970s, it's probably not legal here anymore either. kid sinister posted:I don't know what the construction is like in Austria, but is the cable in conduit or not? You can't make junctions that will be buried inside a wall. The wire comes out of and goes back into a conduit, yeah. The junction might be behind the switch at the facing side in my diagram, but I didn't open that. There's also this both in the corridor and the living room, almost at ceiling height:  kid sinister posted:You might be able to do this yourself, depending on your local laws. Here it would be allowed, but I know that some countries only let electricians touch wiring. And then if it is allowed, sometimes the local government requires that you apply for a permit with them depending on the size of the job, etc. I don't think anyone can stop me per se, but if anything happens... in short, I'd rather not. This entire house is built weirdly. e: wow, that was a very fast thread title change. gschmidl fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Sep 25, 2020 |
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Sep 25, 2020 22:29
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Thanks to everyone who encouraged me to stop being a cheapskate and just buy a drat voltage pen. I've been driving my SO insane with the nonstop beeping. It actually came in handy already. A while back, when I was removing pointless outlet panels (like coaxial cables and land lines) and mudding over it, I came across a panel that was kind of high up on the wall. When I opened it, I found a blue electrical outlet box with some electrical connectors. Figuring it was for an alarm system or something obsolete, I put some drywall tape over it and mudded it. Upon closer inspection, I realized it may have been the electrical connection for the hardwire to the smoke alarm. Today, I used the voltage pen (go figure), and it looks like there is definitely some electricity running through there. Whoops! Should I just remove the drywall mud and put the panel back on? It wouldn't be much trouble to remove it, but I was wondering if there was a point to doing so. If I ran into an issue, I could just cut my way to it? Figured I should ask before making a big mess again. I figure I can just sand away the mud, peel the tape away and be back to square one in no time. 
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Sep 25, 2020 23:01
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Junctions should always be accessible, so you should put the access panel back on it.
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Sep 25, 2020 23:12
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Anybody else come here just for the sketches?
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Sep 26, 2020 08:59
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:If it doesn't have a dedicated ground wire, don't use it for ground, period. What code might let you get away with isn't what you want to do yourself, especially when you won't know the signs that you hosed something up and now have a stablock style housefire waiting to happen.
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Sep 27, 2020 06:31
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That is AC. It's not great and probably not to code in your jurisdiction for anything because the ground is not full size.
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Sep 27, 2020 15:42
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I've been replacing the outlets in my house. When stripping the wire to make a loop to wrap around the outlet screws, do I need to make sure none of the insulation is touching the screw? I didn't strip one of the wires far enough, so some of the insulation is wrapped around the screw. Could that cause any issues down the line? Since I've wrapped the wire around and used a plier to clamp down the end, I don't want to keep manipulating it if it can be helped.
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Sep 28, 2020 14:12
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Yeah, insulation under the screw is gonna cause a poor electrical connection, could lead to a high resistance connection and the outlet burning up. If you don't want to mess with the wire much more you can carefully strip the excess with a razor.
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Sep 28, 2020 15:06
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Bioshuffle posted:I've been replacing the outlets in my house. When stripping the wire to make a loop to wrap around the outlet screws, do I need to make sure none of the insulation is touching the screw? I didn't strip one of the wires far enough, so some of the insulation is wrapped around the screw. Could that cause any issues down the line? Since I've wrapped the wire around and used a plier to clamp down the end, I don't want to keep manipulating it if it can be helped. It depends on how much is touching. None is ideal. A little touching on the side once screwed down is OK, but if it's under the screw head and around the shaft, then that is a definite no-no. Do the razor thing Elviscat recommended. That's the least stressful method for the wire to remove insulation.
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Sep 28, 2020 16:19
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I'll get on it! Thank you for the help. I have a high sensitivity setting on my voltage pen which detects 12-1000V. I'm assuming for my purposes of determining if it's safe to work on, the 48-1000V default setting should be good enough, right?
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Sep 28, 2020 16:56
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It's not the voltage that'll kill you it's amperage across the heart. Lower voltages pose less risk but always best to go with you know.. zero volts. In reality a house wire shoudl not really have any power when the circuit breaker is off. if it does you have larger issues.
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Sep 28, 2020 19:37
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Motronic posted:That is AC.
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Sep 29, 2020 00:00
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Not the prettiest work I've ever done, but it works and once mounted, the switches aren't a shock hazard. Drywall and paint will take care of the rest.  Now to investigate why and how the split phase (+-120v) power is connected somewhere and how anything actually works with it that way. Also, why the connection seems to be in a light fixture box hidden in the suspended ceiling downstairs that has no light fixture connected and just a doorbell transformer.
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Sep 29, 2020 04:20
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GWBBQ posted:Not the prettiest work I've ever done, but it works and once mounted, the switches aren't a shock hazard. Drywall and paint will take care of the rest. Insulation looks a bit under the screws, but your bend radius on the copper is decent. It's in the correct direction around the screws. I'm not really sure what's happening with groundapalooza. GWBBQ posted:Now to investigate why and how the split phase (+-120v) power is connected somewhere and how anything actually works with it that way. Also, why the connection seems to be in a light fixture box hidden in the suspended ceiling downstairs that has no light fixture connected and just a doorbell transformer. What does this mean? Are you trying to say you have two phases connected through a device? And if you do, and if it is a 240v device, why is that a problem? Motronic fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Sep 29, 2020 |
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Sep 29, 2020 04:36
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Has anyone had good luck with a motion detecting light switch? I recently installed a Leviton IPS02 on Sunday and its already failed after switching my 100W incandescent entry light for all of 48 hours. As this is the second Leviton electrical device that has given me issues, I'd prefer to buy a different brand. After looking at some options, I just can't seem to find a motion sensing switch that has good reviews. Lutron looks like it could work, but they are even cheaper than the Leviton switch and the many reviews on poor build quality aren't inspiring. Is this due to the fact that I'm looking for a motion detector that doesn't need a neutral wire? I really love having my entry light kick on automatically, but I'm not sure if I want it enough to pull a neutral conductor to the switch.
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Sep 30, 2020 06:30
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