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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Yeah gently caress it I'll vote Howie. I've voted straight D in every election in my life and all that's happened is the Ds moving further and further right. They care more about their celebrity endorsements billionaire fundraisers than normal concerns. The DSA has had more success than the Greens at getting elected, and I think it's the right tactic as commandeering a major party seems easier than replacing one, but this election is really driving home how little difference there is between Democratic leadership and Republican leadership. Neither Trump or Biden are physically capable of being my president. It doesn't matter how you vote at this point, the leader will hate your loving guts either way. There's no time left on the clock for electoralism to work, we would need generations to deprogram America's fascist brainwashing at this point. If nothing matters then you're free to vote however your moral compass dictates. So why pick between the rapist or the rapist with the bad hair?
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Sep 24, 2020 16:40
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https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1294755111713927169?s=21 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 24, 2020 16:41
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I don't care if someone here votes for Joe Biden, what I do really care about is people here and everywhere else understanding that this system we're in must be destroyed if we are going to survive as a species, and the first step to that goal is recognizing our political landscape for what it is -- class warfare -- rather than some sort of west wing premise, or the hallow'd traditions of our forefathers, or your favorite TV show, or a set of Responsible Adult Decisions to be made, or whatever. But what are the implications of that destruction; that accelerationism via Trump is preferable because it brings us closer to destruction sooner?
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Sep 24, 2020 16:42
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Disnesquick posted:Taking a payday loan is a form of harm reduction for the short-term. Most people understand why it's not a solution to the problems leading you to consider choosing that option though.  Payday loans should be illegal.
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Sep 24, 2020 16:44
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Still yet to even really be convinced that voting Joe actually IS harm reduction, even in the short term.
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Sep 24, 2020 16:49
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:
Definitely. I got a mailer recently offering me a $3k loan. Checked the fine print: interest rate over 300%, and their recommended payment structure was to make payments every other week for something like two years. By the end of it you pay over $9k for that $3k loan. Probably more for most people since you know there are going to be missed payments, penalty rates, etc. It came right at the end of the month, so clearly timed to catch desperate people worrying about making next month's rent. I have no doubt they got some takers who are gonna be on the hook for a long time.
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Sep 24, 2020 16:51
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:
That's anti-Semitic. Debbie Wasserman Schultz loves her payday lender donors!
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Sep 24, 2020 16:55
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posting just to reject this weird, gross analogy.
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Sep 24, 2020 16:55
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Zerilan posted:Still yet to even really be convinced that voting Joe actually IS harm reduction, even in the short term. I think the analogy works a lot better for 2008 than now. Pentecoastal Elites posted:I don't know if it's what you meant but Biden being a payday loan is an amazing metaphor. It's better in the short term, for sure -- you can pay your electric bill, finally, thank god. The heat stays on. Now I can finally relax, that nightmare is over. Yup. That's pretty much what I meant.
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Sep 24, 2020 16:58
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DandyLion posted:But what are the implications of that destruction; that accelerationism via Trump is preferable because it brings us closer to destruction sooner? Will Trump II make material conditions worse in the short term? Yes. Will Biden make material conditions worse in the short term? Also yes. If you could somehow simulate both presidencies, Biden will almost certainly result in some degree less aggregate immiseration (for Americans) than Trump would have, sure. But what about Biden? The conservative Democratic establishment getting a stranglehold on the party and blocking out the left drags the party rightward, destroys any hope of an actually progressive president (and likely any office at the state level or above), AND leaves the lane wide open for the GOP to embrace Trumpism and become an actual blood-and-soil white nationalist party. You're left with Republicans and Fascists and now we're locked into a more-or-less stable political configuration where the best we can hope for is 90's-era Republican policy. All the bad parts of "acceleration" without the hope that things could collapse and usher in the revolution! Disnesquick posted:Taking a payday loan is a form of harm reduction for the short-term. Most people understand why it's not a solution to the problems leading you to consider choosing that option though. *two weeks later* Wait a minute I'm under even more crushing debt? And I still have to pay my electric bill? And my kid needs medicine? Groceries? Rent is due? Holy poo poo I'm going to need another payday loan! *two weeks later* etc. etc. etc. Pentecoastal Elites fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 16:58
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Verus posted:posting just to reject this weird, gross analogy. ...have you seen clips of Rachel Maddow lately?
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Sep 24, 2020 16:59
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sit on my Facebook posted:Slowing down the pace of things that would otherwise be getting worse faster is, definitionally, a reduction in misery. Nobody's asking you to be inspired. I know I'm sure as poo poo not inspired, but that's not really one of my critical decision points this time around and I don't really think it should be anybody's. You're asking people in blue states to vote for Biden because you actually believe the popular vote matters in any way and will give a magical "mandate" when some of the most decisive actions in this country's history were taken by a guy who didn't win his election (Bush, Jr.) That kinda torpedoes any weight to your argument and just comes across as loving to shame people for their votes when you're trying to make the popular vote part of your argument. Also, I usually like Caitlin Johnstone, but that metaphor sucks, yeah.
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Sep 24, 2020 17:08
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https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1308802639027732481?s=20 Trump's corruption exceeds tens of millions I think at this point by comparison.
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Sep 24, 2020 17:11
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:There's this fetish to consider not voting for Biden "accelerationism" (which -- let's make this perfectly clear -- I am not suggesting anyone vote for Trump), but we're well past that point already. Man I appreciate this reply/explanation but it sounds like either you don't vote for Biden (or Trump) and Trump wins which in the long term is good for the burgeoning far left to begin accruing power, or you vote for Trump because at least the result in the future means a quicker path back to an actual left party. Do I have it correct? I can get the logic of that, its just hard to stomach willingly traveling down the path of more death and misery in the immediate short term for the hope it will improve the left's odds in the future...
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Sep 24, 2020 17:12
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DandyLion posted:Man I appreciate this reply/explanation but it sounds like either you don't vote for Biden (or Trump) and Trump wins which in the long term is good for the burgeoning far left to begin accruing power, or you vote for Trump because at least the result in the future means a quicker path back to an actual left party. Do I have it correct? "More death and misery" is not a mutually exclusive outcome from "vote in biden." This is the crux of the issue for me.
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Sep 24, 2020 17:31
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Necessary reminder, apparently: as a major backer of the Iraq War, Biden is actually one of the chief causes of human misery in modern history. Unless, of course, you don't think the million Iraqis he helped kill count as human. We'll leave the misery visited on the US via the crime bill aside for now. Yeah, this is why the lesser-of-two-evils arguments haven't worked on me yet this time around. None that I have seen grapple with the consequences of handing over control of US intelligence agencies and the US military to a guy who helped coordinate a misinformation campaign in Congress to start a grotesquely immoral war. There's plenty of articles that tell you why you have to vote for Joe Biden. I have not seen one that shows appreciation for the horrors of the Iraq War and Biden's involvement in it and is still able to conclude that Biden should be president. I voted for Hillary in 2016, but to a certain extent, one of the reasons I could get past her Iraq War vote was that elected officials in her own party had sold the war based on false intelligence. I certainly preferred the people who weren't fooled—and had some suspicion about how much she might have known—but people like Joe Biden ate that sin for her, from my perspective. A lot harder when he's the nominee. I'd love to say "gently caress it" and just vote for neither, but I live in PA so it feels like I possibly have to make a choice. Anyways, don't mean to make this all about my vote, which doesn't really matter, but if people who are more comfortable with Joe Biden have resources that have helped them get past Joe Biden's history with Iraq without just ignoring it, I'd love to see them (greatly preferring text to audio or video). Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 17:34
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DandyLion posted:Man I appreciate this reply/explanation but it sounds like either you don't vote for Biden (or Trump) and Trump wins which in the long term is good for the burgeoning far left to begin accruing power, or you vote for Trump because at least the result in the future means a quicker path back to an actual left party. Do I have it correct? I think, as an individual, you should only ever vote for the candidate that best represents your interests. The idea that a voter should vote strategically is, I think, a bad one. It's the party's job to convince, organize, and mobilize voters. If the party isn't doing that, they're failing you, not the other way around. Even if we could see the future and it would be in the objective best interest of the left to vote for Trump, I couldn't do it and I couldn't advocate for anyone else to do it either. I think that we lost when Bernie dropped out. There's no good choice between Biden (who will likely be worse for the long term health of the left) and Trump (who will likely be worse for some of the most vulnerable Americans). Damned if you do, damned if you don't. That said -- I'm not saying we're doomed, but I think electoral politics will be closed off for the left for a while if Biden wins. That's not the whole of political action, though, and more than anything I want people to recognize that if Biden wins (which I think will happen) we haven't solved anything, and we have to fight against him -- not "push" him, fight him -- in the same way we'd fight Trump. We have to organize and spread class consciousness. That's the only way out.
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Sep 24, 2020 17:37
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1308802639027732481?s=20 I think only socialists and their families can be corrupt.
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Sep 24, 2020 17:37
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I still have to reject the idea that Biden will in any way lead to better short-term outcomes, for the following reasons: - Biden has already been ratcheting up the rhetoric against protesters and those drat antifa anarchists. The (neo)liberal establishment is already wavering when it comes to criticizing the use of police force during the Trump administration, they will absolutely sweep it under the rug if Biden is president. The liberals will go back to brunch, and Biden & Co. will give more and more money to the brownshirts so they can more effectively put their boots on protesters' throats. - Biden is explicitly pro-Guaido and many of his supporters and campaign mouthpieces have been cheerleaders for wars and coups and deathsquads over the past few decades. (Negroponte. Powell. Ana Navarro, as an apologist). I would be surprised if Biden didn't start either a coup or an all-out war in Venezuela. Either way we'll probably see a massive number of Venezuelan refugees flooding northward... I wonder what Biden's ICE will do to them at the American border? - Biden has historically supported austerity and the slashing of the social safety net, with a particular fixation on social security. The dems would probably be willing to fight a republican president who tried to destroy these programs, but (as we saw with the Grand Bargain) most of the democrats will fall in line with it if proposed under a democratic administration as a show of bipartisan compromise. We can't rely on there being enough crazy Tea Party types left to block this under a Biden presidency. - With Biden in the white house, it is extremely likely that the democrats will lose control of the house in 2022. I feel that the past few years have had an upward trend for the nascent American left, and I think it's much more likely that we'd be able to defeat Republican or neoliberal incumbents with another anti-Trump upswell of support -- especially after an explicit rejection of centrism. A Biden presidency gives the democratic establishment a golden opportunity to regroup and cement their control over the party.
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Sep 24, 2020 17:46
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Verus posted:- With Biden in the white house, it is extremely likely that the democrats will lose control of the house in 2022. I feel that the past few years have had an upward trend for the nascent American left, and I think it's much more likely that we'd be able to defeat Republican or neoliberal incumbents with another anti-Trump upswell of support -- especially after an explicit rejection of centrism. A Biden presidency gives the democratic establishment a golden opportunity to regroup and cement their control over the party. All of these points are good but no one talks about this and it's incredibly important and one of the biggest reasons that Biden was such a stupid loving choice and Biden/Kamala somehow even worse. They're incredibly, historically unpopular: Biden is exceptionally unpopular with even his own voters who really only care about voting against Trump. Kamala was only a fraction more popular than fuckin Beto and she dropped out because no one wanted to give her any money (right before her toxic campaign could tear itself apart). Nothing is going to get meaningfully better for the working class. Biden has explicitly said as much. We don't even have a project like the GND to motivate midterm voters. Biden's whole platform is "Trump is bad, you won't have to think about Trump, or me, once I am president". Worsening conditions plus a massively unpopular president doing nothing, a guy who 30-40% of the voting base thinks is literally part of a baby-eating world-controlling cabal that ousted their guy translates to a loving massacre on every level of government. If you thought the losses under Obama were bad, hooooo baby. Pentecoastal Elites fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 17:55
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Oh hey I recognize that av, whatup sit on my Facebook, long time no se-sit on my Facebook posted:A vote for Biden is a vote against fascism. It's that simple. There will be plenty of time to poo poo on him and his administration until they get better. Step one is, Trump HAS to go. oh.  Oh, geez. I genuinely thought your posts were both accurate and inspiring back in the primary thread. sit on my Facebook posted:It's not. There's an entire primary left after this. Joe Biden is the easiest opponent for Bernie Sanders to beat in a protracted contest. His brain is melting out through his nostrils. There like 2500 delegates still to award after today and Bernie is still the best candidate with the best platform. Biden is not remotely inevitable... unless the left succumbs to this exact type of defeatism sit on my Facebook posted:Like, there's a whole-rear end primary left after this. Even if today is a disaster for Bernie, we could still get him over the line by the convention. Joe Biden's brain is melting in real time. He's an easy opponent. He'll do half the work of beating himself just by having to talk on tv for actual lengths of time. Even if we lose today, there's still plenty of winning to be done. I mean, Joe's brain is melting faster than ever (see: how many days his campaign's called a press lid before noon this month!), he wants to increase police funding and thinks Breonna Taylor should face charges too (??), and he's been happily embracing Colin Powell, Rick Snyder, and John Kasich. What's changed?
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Sep 24, 2020 17:57
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I'm not a Biden fan, but I'm not very convinced that him losing is good for leftists/progressives in a theoretical 2022 house election where a Biden loss likely signifies the senate stays Republican and just ignore the Democratic house again as they're doing now - no matter how many new progressives get elected.
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Sep 24, 2020 18:03
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Whenever these lesser evil arguments come up, there's a set o questions I ask that never seem to get an answer: - How do people who think that democrats are self evidently the lesser evil reconcile that belief with the fact that Obama was responsible for a record number of deportations, a record expansion on police authority over immigrant, a record expansion on oil production, and one of the biggest increases in the racial wealth gap in recent decades? - How do people who think that democrats are self evidently the lesser evil reconcile that with the fact that the people responsible for the greatest evils of the last 40 years are all on their side? This isn't to say that Trump is the lesser evil. But it is clear that the assumption that fewer people suffer under a democrat is flawed, to say the least.
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Sep 24, 2020 18:03
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:
You know, I'd love to counter this by saying "But there's a another choice!", but that only applies to voters in states where the democrats did not succeed in removing other options from the ballot.
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Sep 24, 2020 18:04
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sit on my Facebook posted:Slowing down the pace of things that would otherwise be getting worse faster is, definitionally, a reduction in misery. Nobody's asking you to be inspired. I know I'm sure as poo poo not inspired, but that's not really one of my critical decision points this time around and I don't really think it should be anybody's.  Being a scab is worse than going on strike. If you aren't telling people that you don't support their behavior and you won't go along with it then you're doing a harmful thing. And to be clear, supporting either big party candidate is the same amount of harmful Rainbow Knight fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 18:36
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Fly Molo posted:I mean, Joe's brain is melting faster than ever (see: how many days his campaign's called a press lid before noon this month!), he wants to increase police funding and thinks Breonna Taylor should face charges too (??), and he's been happily embracing Colin Powell, Rick Snyder, and John Kasich. What's changed? It's this: Harlock posted:I'm not a Biden fan, but I'm not very convinced that him losing is good for leftists/progressives in a theoretical 2022 house election where a Biden loss likely signifies the senate stays Republican and just ignore the Democratic house again as they're doing now - no matter how many new progressives get elected. Biden winning is better for the cause, because it is a 100% certainty that trump winning again is bad for it. We are all reasonably sure around here that Biden winning isn't in and of itself good for the cause either, but it's a better option for progress with a higher likelihood of eventual success than trump is, that's for drat sure, even if it's still gonna be an uphill battle. Put simply, it's the better of two bad options. sit on my Facebook fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Sep 24, 2020 |
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Sep 24, 2020 18:39
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Somfin posted:It is super bizarre that the pro-Biden folks haven't cited his website regarding unions, which actually does say some fairly positive (if, shockingly, mostly unspecific) stuff regarding restoring union power. I know that syndicalism isn't a super popular political outlook but you'd think that if you're trying to appeal to the left you'd know that union and worker power is actually really important to them. It's not enough to overturn my existing NOJOE opinion, because that was based on other issues that still haven't been addressed, but it's convinced me that he might actually have his heart in the right place on this- as far as trying desperately to appeal to workers goes. His website doesn't mean all that much, and I haven't read the entirety of the PRO Act, but at least in this case he's got a specific piece of legislation he's putting down as being something he'll champion. Funny thing about the PROs Act and other pro union language included in his platform, its a copy and paste of Obama's 2008 playform, which also added additional items that were union friendly, like wage increases for federal workers. Not only is Biden not going to be any more union friendly than the at best hapless Obama admin, hes already signaling hes gonna be worse.
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Sep 24, 2020 18:55
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sit on my Facebook posted:Biden winning is better for the cause, because it is a 100% certainty that trump winning again is bad for it. This is optimistic, but flawed. Biden winning sends Democrats the message that they can actively fight against the cause and still win. Maybe eliminating the left's only electoral options is something you'd like to see, but I'm not nearly as accelerationist as you.
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Sep 24, 2020 18:57
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I guess I don't really follow how a Biden win closes off electoral options for the left. If that's the case then the conclusion is that electoralism is dead because, again, Trump and the Republicans will certainly do that, with open disenfranchisement and street-level violence. And if that's your thesis, then, I mean, sure. My opinion is that electoralism is insufficient on its own, but also a parallel track to power that can't be disregarded. We can, should and will continue to lift progressive voices and elect them at the local and state level and percolate our ideological preferences upward into government from the bottom; ie. the only tactic that's ever worked.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:04
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sit on my Facebook posted:It's this: I don’t know, honestly. Trump is evil and spiteful as gently caress, but he’s also lazy and unable to follow through with anything. Biden is more of a semi-conscious figurehead, but his election will be used to justify and solidify the lovely things the dems have done this cycle (ie. kicking third parties off the ballot, throwing their weight behind the cops, running even harder right to “pick up moderate Republicans”). He’s currently and explicitly running on crushing Venezuela, stopping ‘violent anarchists’, tightening the belt (aka austerity), etc. and he’ll have a more competent cabinet, so I expect more of that agenda to actually get done. Every time I begin to try to give Biden any benefit of the doubt, he comes right out and says “HOW DARE YOU IVE NEVER SUPPORTED GOOD TJINGS NO MALARKY, VOTE FOR TRUMP”. So far, I haven’t seen any indication that my material conditions will improve (or even stop deteriorating) under President Biden.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:04
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Fly Molo posted:I don’t know, honestly. Trump is evil and spiteful as gently caress, but he’s also lazy and unable to follow through with anything. Biden is more of a semi-conscious figurehead, but his election will be used to justify and solidify the lovely things the dems have done this cycle (ie. kicking third parties off the ballot, throwing their weight behind the cops, running even harder right to “pick up moderate Republicans”). He’s currently and explicitly running on crushing Venezuela, stopping ‘violent anarchists’, tightening the belt (aka austerity), etc. and he’ll have a more competent cabinet, so I expect more of that agenda to actually get done. Yeah, I hear that. It loving sucks. Fixing our situation is going to take a lot of time and struggle no matter what. I just think the proposition on front of us comes down to a very cold logical calculus; Trump is GUARANTEED to make things shittier and stifle anything you and I would consider good. Biden/Harris and the democrats, on the other hand, could be understood as less actively malicious than they are simply soulless unprincipled lizard people who are primarily motivated by their own careerist ambitions. That type of person can at least theoretically be poo poo on until they get better. It'll take time and effort and it's admittedly probably quite unlikely to result in anything in the short term. But it's possible. With trump you have an actual zero percent chance. Never ever happening. In fact, they will be sending people with guns to make sure you don't even talk about it too loud.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:11
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The DNC and its affiliates will remain extremely hostile to leftist challengers whether Biden wins or loses, so to me that's an irrelevant argument for whether or not a leftist should vote for Biden.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:15
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sit on my Facebook posted:I guess I don't really follow how a Biden win closes off electoral options for the left. If that's the case then the conclusion is that electoralism is dead because, again, Trump and the Republicans will certainly do that, with open disenfranchisement and street-level violence. And if that's your thesis, then, I mean, sure. My opinion is that electoralism is insufficient on its own, but also a parallel track to power that can't be disregarded. We can, should and will continue to lift progressive voices and elect them at the local and state level and percolate our ideological preferences upward into government from the bottom; ie. the only tactic that's ever worked. The Democrats have fought harder against progressives than they have against the republicans. That's why a Biden victory closes off electoral options for the left. If Biden wins, then the Democrat playbook of "gently caress the left, gently caress poor people, let cops murder and imprison and enslave as many people as you want with impunity and never allow anything to change for the better" pays off and they never have to pretend to give a poo poo about anyone other than wealthy donors again. If Biden loses, the Democrats are either forced to change or keep losing elections until the party dissolves. There is no electoral future for the left if Biden wins.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:16
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:
Agreed, and you may recall a certain Democrat who pledged to put payday lenders out of business by limiting interest rates on loans to 15%: https://jacobinmag.com/2019/05/bernie-sanders-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-payday-lenders-interest-rates Unfortunately, the Dem establishment worked very hard to ensure he was not the nominee. Instead, they pushed Joe Biden, who has spent his career fighting to deregulate the credit industry. One of Biden's early "achievements" was a law preventing states from capping interest rates on consumer loans. In return, banks moved their credit card operations to Delaware, enriching both Biden's home state and members of his family: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/biden-delaware-way-graft/ quote:Biden worked hard on the 1978 bankruptcy reform bill that first limited recent graduates from claiming bankruptcy protection, and he served on the banking committee that produced the Financial Institutions Regulatory and Interest Rate Control Act of 1978, which stopped states from capping interest charges by out-of-state banks. The Supreme Court’s Marquette v. First of Omaha ruling that year cemented the banks’ freedom to export high interest rates to places that had tried to limit usury. Of course, Biden also made it harder to discharge debt in bankruptcy. This was a huge boon to the student debt industry that sucks billions of profits out of US colleges every year, trapping poor students and their families in lifetime debt. (Fun fact: Navient, one of the big three student loan companies, is headquartered in Delaware) But stricter bankruptcy laws also benefit credit card companies, and Biden's efforts on behalf of these loansharks earned him the nickname "the Senator from MBNA": https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/middle-class-joe-cozied-up-to-credit-card-companies-and-made-filing-for-bankruptcy-harder quote:Lenders like Citigroup, Bank of America, JP Morgan, Chase and Wells Fargo aggressively lobbied for changes to the bankruptcy code. Delaware-based credit card company MBNA, which Bank of America acquired in 2006, was one of the most ardent supporters of the bill. Americans trapped in inescapable credit card debt, student loan debt, medical debt, etc, etc, have Joe Biden to blame, along with many others of course. But please, tell me more about how Biden is the harm reduction candidate.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:17
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i am the bird posted:The DNC and its affiliates will remain extremely hostile to leftist challengers whether Biden wins or loses, so to me that's an irrelevant argument for whether or not a leftist should vote for Biden. They certainly will, but there's a qualitative difference between raising money for shitlibs and smearing their human challengers on the one hand, and using the police to brutally suppress any level of dissent with weapons and violence on the other, right Like which level of institutional hostility do you expect to be easier to overcome
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Sep 24, 2020 19:18
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sit on my Facebook posted:They certainly will, but there's a qualitative difference between raising money for shitlibs and smearing their human challengers on the one hand, and using the police to brutally suppress any level of dissent with weapons and violence in the other, right Biden has campaigned on arresting protestors
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Sep 24, 2020 19:20
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sit on my Facebook posted:They certainly will, but there's a qualitative difference between raising money for shitlibs and smearing their human challengers on the one hand, and using the police to brutally suppress any level of dissent with weapons and violence on the other, right I genuinely don't know which one of these you think the election will affect, other than the likelihood that a Biden presidency will specifically single out leftists for violence while Trump generally doesn't distinguish between liberals and leftists
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Sep 24, 2020 19:21
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:If Biden loses, the Democrats are either forced to change or keep losing elections until the party dissolves. I feel like this future is a lot more problematic than this argument acknowledges for reasons that should be extremely obvious.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:21
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sit on my Facebook posted:I guess I don't really follow how a Biden win closes off electoral options for the left. The ratfucking this cycle was worse than when Bernie ran against Clinton, and that was after her loss. Biden pulling out a win would embolden the Democrats to even more agressively attack the left. Had Clinton won, the next presidential cycle would be an even more conservative Democratic than Biden.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:22
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 22:05 |
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i am the bird posted:Biden has campaigned on arresting protestors Listen, if Biden gets elected and continues disappearing people into unmarked cars then I will give you whatever mea culpa you want, but maybe let's give a try first, eh?
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Sep 24, 2020 19:25
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