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which of the Atelier games would be best for me, a blind nun
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Sep 26, 2020 19:33
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| # ? May 25, 2024 00:20 |
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Disgaea 6 TGS gameplay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIXQHgx4Sr8 I don't really have much opinion on the 3D as really it's a smart move from a financial & development standpoint. Working with models allows you to do a lot of things far easier and quicker than having to draw sprite animation frames or whatever, and I expect it'll allow for some really cool camera freedom in the future. The fade to black loading screen is a bit annoying, but let's face it, after a couple of watches you're likely to skip anims. The auto-battle looks interesting, it will repeat the level indefinitely; but it could also be implying, along with the stat increases that post-game grind is going to get even worse. On the other hand, they did say they were trying to offer stuff for both hardcore and casual audiences so who knows... I suspect there will be a lot of potentially janky or weird things as they probably invested a lot of time overhauling the engine for 3D or going with a completely new one - I noticed at high levels the SP cost for skills doesn't fit on the screen but I guess at that level you just eyeball most things anyway.
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Sep 26, 2020 20:00
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Might have used some thicker lines/outlines but the spirit of the sprites seems intact.
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Sep 26, 2020 20:07
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Here is my thought on Ryza: Go back to the alchemy system from the Sophie trilogy, it was better.
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Sep 26, 2020 20:15
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i dont like sophie alchemy, its way too much trial and error with the order you place pieces mattering too much L&S fixed that though and is the best system to date
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Sep 26, 2020 20:28
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Endorph posted:i think if everyone on the internet could get over their weird hateboner for nomura the world would be a better place actually let me back the gently caress up for a second and address this so if i genuinely think that, during all his time as a director-producer, he hasn't made a single good game, i'm not allowed to express this opinion because... ???? you've directed plenty of general complaints about translators, publishers, developers in the past but because the person whose work i dislike is "popular" to dislike, that's somehow less valid? you think i'm saying this because i'm on an anti-nomura bandwagon and not because i've never enjoyed a single game he's held a major production position on? no i think i can freely dislike whoever's work i want
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Sep 26, 2020 21:39
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Hwurmp posted:which of the Atelier games would be best for me, a blind nun Which do you like more, puzzles or time management
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Sep 26, 2020 21:44
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The White Dragon posted:actually let me back the gently caress up for a second and address this likewise people especially seem to bring him up a lot in the context of ff13 even though his only credit for those games is 'character designer.' Endorph fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 22:37
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Tales of Woe posted:i dont like sophie alchemy, its way too much trial and error with the order you place pieces mattering too much Yeah I'm playing through L&S currently and the alchemy has a lot of moving parts while still being easy to understand which is great.
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Sep 26, 2020 22:55
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yea i'll exaggerate about nomura's OC or whatever--i like to call vincent his OC also--but i think he does pretty good modern-type costume design, and great monster design. it's not like it's a secret that fashion is what he loves; i just think he's utterly incompetent at high-level production and he gets stationed by SE in positions that aren't suited to what he likes/what he's good at. he also makes the other projects he's assigned to suffer because they aren't his baby, kingdom hearts, and i think that's unacceptable behavior for a director. his actual character designs, in a void ignoring their costumes, totally tend to come out as neku/sora/squall/sion clones a lot though Fur20 fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 22:59
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah I'm playing through L&S currently and the alchemy has a lot of moving parts while still being easy to understand which is great. Yeah my four recommended starting points for the series, will their selling points, are: Rorona: very cute and wholesome, engaging but not difficult time management Ayesha: a moving cast and narrative, enticing world to explore Lydie & Suelle: no time limits if they're not your thing, very fun crafting puzzles Ryza: no time limited if they're not your thing, fast-paced battles if you like those, a traditional stlye narrative but with an atelier flair to easy you into the series' story telling
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Sep 26, 2020 23:11
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i don't think nomura has actually directed a lot of non-kingdom hearts games besides like, x, 7r and, for a portion of its life, xv. and like i dunno how much you can blame him for production issues on xv or ff7r because holy loving poo poo those were made in an era where someone at square enix almost thought hiring the producer of tales of zestiria to make a video game was a good idea, they were making tons of bad decisions throughout the 2010s and there's no way literally all of them were nomura's fault and like. ffx was kinda janky but. as a game it was mostly like, fine. had some pretty solid ideas that it executed decently overall. given that, idk, i'd be much more in a hurry to blame square's history of absurd approaches to game production that we've heard stories of through like, monolithsoft staff talking about how since they took all their experience from working at square years ago xenoblade pretty much resulted in them having to relearn how to even structure game dev in a sane way
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Sep 26, 2020 23:26
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The White Dragon posted:yea i'll exaggerate about nomura's OC or whatever--i like to call vincent his OC also--but i think he does pretty good modern-type costume design, and great monster design. it's not like it's a secret that fashion is what he loves; i just think he's utterly incompetent at high-level production and he gets stationed by SE in positions that aren't suited to what he likes/what he's good at. he also makes the other projects he's assigned to suffer because they aren't his baby, kingdom hearts, and i think that's unacceptable behavior for a director. Is this just Versus XIII? Because outside of that game and I think the first Dissida i'm not sure what games outside of KH he was the like main director for. E: I guess I might be underestimating how much pull the producer has in comparison to the director in regards to controlling the direction of games, because he has that role in a lot more stuff. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 23:27
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reminder that nomura literally didn't know he was directing ff7r until the very first trailer for it dropped because literally nobody told him
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Sep 26, 2020 23:28
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Is this just Versus XIII? Because outside of that game and I think the first Dissida i'm not sure what games outside of KH he was the like main director for. he was on versus 13 and he was on 15 but what always shocked me was that quote about not even knowing he was assigned to BE the director of, what 7r? because he was working on KH. maybe this was a joke, maybe this was a communication error on SE's part, but it just sounds really bad doesn't it? SyntheticPolygon posted:E: I guess I might be underestimating how much pull the producer has in comparison to the director in regards to controlling the direction of games, because he has that role in a lot more stuff. producers will have a lot of oversight on deadlines and if milestones are being reached, or if they can be reached. time projections, decisions over how money is budgeted, etc. and he's... well, not very good with deadlines or time management Fur20 fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 23:30
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The Colonel posted:i don't think nomura has actually directed a lot of non-kingdom hearts games besides like, x, 7r and, for a portion of its life, xv. and like i dunno how much you can blame him for production issues on xv or ff7r because holy loving poo poo those were made in an era where someone at square enix almost thought hiring the producer of tales of zestiria to make a video game was a good idea, they were making tons of bad decisions throughout the 2010s and there's no way literally all of them were nomura's fault Maybe not all of them, but when you hear he wanted to retool FFXV into a musical 5+ years into development from watching Les Mis it's hard not to think he was certainly one of the problems
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Sep 26, 2020 23:32
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The White Dragon posted:he was on versus 13 and he was on 15 but what always shocked me was that quote about not even knowing he was assigned to BE the director of, what 7r? because he was working on KH. maybe this was a joke, maybe this was a communication error on SE's part, but it just sounds really bad doesn't it? that. literally sounds like a communication error. there is nothing in the story behind it that implicates nomura as being at fault. even the quote from kitase makes it clear that nobody had told nomura and they just thought he knew already.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:32
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I mean Versus XIII became XV so i'm not sure they should be counted separately. And yeah the early production of 7R sounded like it was a huge mess but in the end I think the game was great. E: multijoe posted:Maybe not all of them, but when you hear he wanted to retool FFXV into a musical 5+ years into development from watching Les Mis it's hard not to think he was certainly one of the problems I don't think this happened.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:32
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sounds awesome though
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Sep 26, 2020 23:35
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SyntheticPolygon posted:
It sure did
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Sep 26, 2020 23:37
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keep in mind nomura's credited as *creative* producer on a bunch of projects. not regular producer. a producer's job is to make sure the game its hitting its development goals on time. the *creative* producer is more of an ideas-focused role. those games had separate producers. for instance, nomura is creative producer on twewy, but the producer was shinji hashimoto. furthermore, can you really blame an employee for being stretched thin when he has to have a major, high level role on 3 or 4 projects at once, rather than the higher ups who thought making a guy be a high level creative on 4 things at once was a good idea.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:38
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even for potential stories of nomura messing up the point should be less that nomura is personally responsible for everything wrong with every square enix series ever and more that. square as a company is weirdly dysfunctional and has been for the past three decades. this has, been a consistent trend. i don't know why nomura has to be the internet punching bag for a company that's had production issues on games for 30 years. there was a point in time where square thought racing lagoon was a good idea. that game managed to get a worse score from famitsu than the bouncer
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Sep 26, 2020 23:38
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multijoe posted:Maybe not all of them, but when you hear he wanted to retool FFXV into a musical 5+ years into development from watching Les Mis it's hard not to think he was certainly one of the problems
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Sep 26, 2020 23:38
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Yeah there's articles that mention it but I can't find the source. It just says "Nomura admitted to wanting to do a Les mis". I've tried to find the source for that interview because it is of course incredibly badass but the closest I could find is in interview for KH3 where he wanted to have one level be a musical and he was shot down because they tried that in KH2 and it was bad.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:41
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Endorph posted:5 years into development of ff15 its pretty clear no one had any idea what the gently caress it was supposed to be so a musical sounds like as good of a direction as anything else. at least it was a clear goal and direction. That's the point though, after five years of development the director of the game had no idea what the hell it was. I'm not even saying a musical is a bad idea for a game but as a large scale project manager it makes him sound completely hopeless that after five years of 'development' he could even consider throwing everything out on a whim. SyntheticPolygon posted:Yeah there's articles that mention it but I can't find the source. It just says "Nomura admitted to wanting to do a Les mis". It looks like the original quote came from an hour long IGN video interview, I'm not going to go digging through it for timestamps but it seems like a legit source No Dignity fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 23:42
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Yeah either Nomura is way to lax or director is basically a castigated position The fact the same thing happened for 7 even if no one blames him shows a pattern. You can’t just ignore that to defend the guy for whatever reason
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Sep 26, 2020 23:45
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honestly that sounds like it could easily have been a joke that got misinterpreted as a serious statement of intent over translation
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Sep 26, 2020 23:49
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I mean complaints about the structure of the KH series aside, Kingdom Hearts games came out regularly and with no real signs of major development problems up until KH3. Which was when Nomura was on like four separate projects at once. In the 2010s he had a major role on FF13-2 KH Birth by Sleep KH Re:Coded The 3rd Birthday Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy Type-0 Lightning Returns Theatherhythm KH 3D FF All The Bravest KHX FF Record Keeper KH Unchained X Dissidia Final Fantasy Opera Omnia Dissidia NT FF15 KH3 I don't think 'the guy was stretched incredibly thin' is giving him too much sympathy or anything. They had him working on basically every entry in two of Squeenix's top 3 franchises for the course of a decade. And obviously he wasn't going to let a KH game be made without him but and Dissidia seems like something he was deliberately involved in but I doubt Nomura has a deep creative passion for making final fantasy mobile games.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:50
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multijoe posted:Maybe not all of them, but when you hear he wanted to retool FFXV into a musical 5+ years into development from watching Les Mis it's hard not to think he was certainly one of the problems Lol I can't believe people are still trotting out this joke he said one time as proof that he's a terrible director who ruins everything
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Sep 26, 2020 23:55
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So wait is their evidence it’s a joke or have people just convinced themselves that’s what is was for connivence sake
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Sep 26, 2020 23:57
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multijoe posted:That's the point though, after five years of development the director of the game had no idea what the hell it was. I'm not even saying a musical is a bad idea for a game but as a large scale project manager it makes him sound completely hopeless that after five years of 'development' he could even consider throwing everything out on a whim. Yeah I know that article. I don't think the interview was recorded though and ign just did a story on it after the fact. It's hard to tell how much of a thing it really was or if it was just a joke or whatever because the only source is a short 2013 ign story with no transcript or anything. Like, not to say that Nomura's XV was actually progressing fine because it clearly had enough issues that it was only finished once he was kicked off but I don't think the musical thing was really a contributing factor.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:So wait is their evidence it’s a joke or have people just convinced themselves that’s what is was for connivence sake
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Sep 27, 2020 00:00
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Endorph posted:I don't think 'the guy was stretched incredibly thin' is giving him too much sympathy or anything. They had him working on basically every entry in two of Squeenix's top 3 franchises for the course of a decade. And obviously he wasn't going to let a KH game be made without him but and Dissidia seems like something he was deliberately involved in but I doubt Nomura has a deep creative passion for making final fantasy mobile games. he's definitely spread too thin but that kind of feeds into my line of thinking where he's being positioned in places that don't suit him, and on projects he doesn't care about. not that any of the games on that list would've been improved by having a different director, i don't see anything very good on that list to begin with. is it his fault that he's on a lot of crappy games? no. am i saying he should've alan smitheed himself? also no. but if we weed out all the cash-ins and all the mobage, i still quite dislike the games he's proudest of making, so that's why i think he's a crappy developer/director
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Sep 27, 2020 00:05
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I don't know why you think I'm saying you can't dislike his games
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Sep 27, 2020 00:09
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Obviously if he was serious FF15 would be a musical 
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Sep 27, 2020 00:10
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I am still upset to this day we did not get a kinect-based game where you have to sing and dance the battle songs to power up your squad and push through. The above said while I would have bought and enjoyed FFXV the Musical its not really how one manages project
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Sep 27, 2020 00:12
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Endorph posted:I don't know why you think I'm saying you can't dislike his games that was just the initial assertion, where i thought you were assuming i was only hating on him for some arbitrary, internet-inspired reason at this point im just giving my two cents on it. he should primarily be an art director, not a project director
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Sep 27, 2020 00:16
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Yeah I know that article. I don't think the interview was recorded though and ign just did a story on it after the fact. It's hard to tell how much of a thing it really was or if it was just a joke or whatever because the only source is a short 2013 ign story with no transcript or anything. Like, not to say that Nomura's XV was actually progressing fine because it clearly had enough issues that it was only finished once he was kicked off but I don't think the musical thing was really a contributing factor. I'm not saying it was a major reason for his failure as to finish the project, but it is an insight into how slapdash and unfocused his management of the game was. Like it seems one of the many, many terrible business decisions Square kept making through the late 2000s and 2010s was giving all of their choicest plums to this one guy who clearly does not seem to have the skillset to run a large scale AAA project in any reasonable timeframe.
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Sep 27, 2020 00:17
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FF7R is the best FF game to come out in 18 years so he can do what he likes imo
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Sep 27, 2020 00:17
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I'm too busy hating Tanaka to hate Nomura.
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Sep 27, 2020 00:20
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