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Inverted Icon posted:The guild doesn't have a monopoly on folding space. Ix can do that too. Their monopoly is on the navigators, who know when folding space would put them inside of a star, or something If the KJA books are to be believed, the space folding engines are easy as hell to make it's just without a navigator there's a 10%-30% chance of dying when trying to use them.
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Sep 26, 2020 21:12
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So this "no intelligent machines" doctrine, is this where warhammer cribbed their "no computers" rule? afaik there's something similar in the w40k universe.
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Sep 26, 2020 22:10
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busalover posted:So this "no intelligent machines" doctrine, is this where warhammer cribbed their "no computers" rule? afaik there's something similar in the w40k universe. If it's in 40k, there's a gooood chance they cribbed it from one old sci fi book or another. e. One of the reasons I can't talk to 40k nerds is besides their dedication to having no fun at all, they are largely ignorant of the ideas that made people take sf seriously. Not just like kids with a limited worldview, either. I mean the ones who should have at least read something besides WH books. They should all phasmid fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 22:13
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phasmid posted:If it's in 40k, there's a gooood chance they cribbed it from one old sci fi book or another. SF is just a bunch of fun goofball poo poo mostly made up by old horny dudes don't have a cow man
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Sep 26, 2020 22:57
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In 40k there isn't a no computers rule in the way there is in Dune. It's not taboo or anything, it's more that after the Emperor was iced mankind kind of got messed up for a whole heap of time and people forgot how their computers worked. So tech was still kind of maintained and used but the how and the why got lost and replaced with ritual. Sometimes this is fun cos you'd get something dumb and ironic in a sourcebook about a banal error message freaking people out. I dunno if Warhammer is as fun as it used to be, it seems like they sanded off the dumb ironic Judge Dredd fascism and ended up with something that really resembles unironic fascist fan fiction
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Sep 26, 2020 22:59
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Mrs. Dash posted:SF is just a bunch of fun goofball poo poo mostly made up by old horny dudes don't have a cow man I think blatant plagiarism is stupid, lazy and offensive. And in case you're coming at it from the pov of someone that likes WH, you should see how many people Games Workshop sues for stealing "their" ideas. Shoehead posted:In 40k there isn't a no computers rule in the way there is in Dune. It's not taboo or anything, it's more that after the Emperor was iced mankind kind of got messed up for a whole heap of time and people forgot how their computers worked. So tech was still kind of maintained and used but the how and the why got lost and replaced with ritual. In other words, an excuse to use swords in space.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:14
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D. Ebdrup posted:Writing a message on a piece of paper and sending it on a ship going on a Highliner is still FTL, but Dune has no science fiction mechanism for sending messages through subspace or anything of that sort. The great mathematician and cyborg Holtzman (the shield/laser combo is named after him) discovered a way to use 1-D "Holtzman waves" to propagate information FTL. 2-D waves create the shield effect. Holtzman's ship was damaged when fleeing his home planet and stuck on a 1700 year elliptical during which he mostly powered down to save energy. Unfortunately on the orbit he said he would be able to share what 3-D waves do Holtzman was murdered. The last victim of the Butlerian Jihad was killed in a ceremony to capstone the war and declare the Jihad against the machines was finally won.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:21
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"No wait I can tell you how to easily turn all this madness into pros-" *BLAM*
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Sep 26, 2020 23:30
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There was a copy of the Dune Encyclopedia in one of my local second hand bookstore's front windows and I was like "oh I should buy that" but I was running late for something and so had to come back the following day, at which point it was gone. I still regret not just buying the drat thing and being (more) late.
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Sep 27, 2020 00:15
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The Encyclopedia's description of the Butlerian Jihad is so much more thematically and textually satisfying than Brian's. Less Terminator: Salvation and more Animatrix: 2nd Renaissance part 1.
Yadoppsi fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 00:31
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Animatrix Second Renaissance is so brutal. When they rip that guys torso out of the mech suit I still get the squicks.
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Sep 27, 2020 00:33
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Yadoppsi posted:The Encyclopedia's description of the Butlerian Jihad is so much more thematically and textually satisfying than Brian's. Less Terminator: Salvation and more Animatrix: 2nd Genesis part 1. Yeah a luddite smashing of computers is infinity billion times more interesting than what the failson and his handler did.
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Sep 27, 2020 00:33
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I know the encyclopedia will never get a reprint under failson but is it really as rare as the crazy online prices suggest? You can find first editions of the first book for cheaper
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Sep 27, 2020 00:39
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Just wanted to make it clear that an Ixian starship absolutely does not contain a computer in a sealed box - because that would be illegal.
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Sep 27, 2020 00:45
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Doc Hawkins posted:it actually makes a kind of sense for the trisolarans, who are the makers of the game, and trying to...uhh...communicate with earth? actually in retrospect i don't understand why they made that game. because they didn't understand lying yet? It's because they're trying to recruit disaffected intellectuals who are (for some reason) attracted to the structure of Trisolaran society. The game is a way of teaching people about the Trisolarans without letting on that you're recruiting for space aliens.
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Sep 27, 2020 00:48
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Ingmar terdman posted:I know the encyclopedia will never get a reprint under failson but is it really as rare as the crazy online prices suggest? You can find first editions of the first book for cheaper There's a link somewhere upthread that points to a dl of the encyclopedia. I really enjoyed it, no matter how many hands were involved in its creation. You might like it  e. Oh wait I thought you were saying you hadn't read it. Nvm
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Sep 27, 2020 01:21
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Great post from way back:
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Sep 27, 2020 02:18
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Of all the things the failson did why bother with butlerian jihad when you can make a relatively small and self contained but still related to dune book about the conquest of the caladan fiefdom by the Atreides? You could almost copy the book 1 of dune and replace sand with water.Make the Atreides the scheming backstabbers with excellent propaganda corps, flesh out more politics and economics.Have more scenes of people talking around maps and genealogy trees. Is there a dune mod in any crusader kings game ?
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Sep 27, 2020 02:36
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hump day bitches! posted:why bother with butlerian jihad when you can make a small and self contained but still related to dune book 
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Sep 27, 2020 02:37
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Yadoppsi posted:Great post from way back: phasmid posted:There's a link somewhere upthread that points to a dl of the encyclopedia. I really enjoyed it, no matter how many hands were involved in its creation. You might like it Thanks both, seeing that timeline back in the thread is what has me interested in it. I would just be way more likely to read it in book form than online, and was just surprised at how much copies go for now
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Sep 27, 2020 02:44
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Pham Nuwen posted:I too enjoyed A Deepness in the Sky Vinge before he went nuts was one of the best Rip
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Sep 27, 2020 02:53
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euphronius posted:Vinge before he went nuts was one of the best What happened?
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Sep 27, 2020 02:55
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Spazzle posted:What happened? He got the chud
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Sep 27, 2020 02:56
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phasmid posted:The Atreides don't keep slaves. Although I'm p sure serfdom is still a thing. And where did you hear that? Duke Leto I's propaganda corps 
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Sep 27, 2020 03:28
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the 40k ban on AI is lifted from Dune, as is the later characterization of the emperor as like trying to protect humanity through tyranny in 40k AI is banned because of robot wars in the past, and because sufficiently advanced AIs are capable of making pacts with chaos and summoning demons. its a much cornier, more obvious take on dune's butlerian jihad, which is why KJA and failson did the same thing also the rule gets violated a lot in 40k anyway, with some more advanced stuff having its obvious AI components justified with it just having a very rowdy machine spirit. they also use lobotomized humans hooked up to cybernetics in place of robots, because its illegal to make a machine that emulates the human mind, so why not just use the human mind? i guess its kinda more justified, cause the 40k ban on AI isn't related to any sort of luddite sentiment like the butlerian jihad
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Sep 27, 2020 05:09
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Oh I forgot there was also a terminator (the James Cameron ones not the space marines) war some time before the Emperor showed up proper
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Sep 27, 2020 12:00
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ilovebeersooomuch posted:Something I don’t quite understand is that Paul is specifically referred to as being in many places at once - or at least being able. This is after his KH abilities manifest. Later on, during the night in the still-tent, Paul also describes his visions as a kind of a terrain, full of available paths, most of them dipping or turning out of sight - probably because he's not the perfect Kwizats Hadarach as he was born a generation too early according to the breeding schemes of the Bene Gesserit. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 12:11
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My fav thing about the encyclopedia timeline other than the insane time length (technically Dune is set at 30 C Ad lol) is the way its obviously skewed towards the diagetic writers perspective, i.e. everything in history being a contest of the throne. Its brilliant poo poo.
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Sep 27, 2020 16:22
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D. Ebdrup posted:Given the paragraphs surrounding that whole bit, when Mohaim visits Paul on Caladan, I think it's likely that it refers to Other Memory and the Kwisatz Haderachs ability to explore multiple Other Memories at the same time. There are limits to his prescience, just as there was with Leto II. I think perhaps an individual could never be a "perfect" precognitor (precognate?) because even with clairvoyance - a clear, unobstructed view of that "terrain" - the vision ends a little while after their death. Probably no one would want that kind of power. Hellfire might just make you into a drooling toadstool playing the finger harp on your lips.
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Sep 27, 2020 18:59
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Being prescient in Dune means being able to see all possible future outcomes. It's not until you're right on top of what you're trying to perceive that the desirable option becomes clear. They constantly have to guess which path to take, out of infinitely possible routes. That's how I read it, I think Paul even says as much towards the end of Dune?
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Sep 27, 2020 19:13
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And Messiah, and Children, and GE. I still stand by the "mathematical prescience" I mean it is right there in the first scene with RM Mohiam
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Sep 27, 2020 19:47
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D. Ebdrup posted:Given the paragraphs surrounding that whole bit, when Mohaim visits Paul on Caladan, I think it's likely that it refers to Other Memory and the Kwisatz Haderachs ability to explore multiple Other Memories at the same time. phasmid posted:There are limits to his prescience, just as there was with Leto II. I think perhaps an individual could never be a "perfect" precognitor (precognate?) because even with clairvoyance - a clear, unobstructed view of that "terrain" - the vision ends a little while after their death. Probably no one would want that kind of power. Hellfire might just make you into a drooling toadstool playing the finger harp on your lips. exmachina posted:And Messiah, and Children, and GE. I still stand by the "mathematical prescience" I mean it is right there in the first scene with RM Mohiam It sounds like you’re all describing having an error in precision of probabilities that approaches zero but Paul never actually gets infinite precision. But he’s reeeeealy good at probabilities, right, but not perfect? That’s my same take on it. He can fly a thropter after the stone burner blinded him because he could predict what movement to make on the controls. Something about this though doesn’t sit right with me about the many-places-at-once moniker. It does make some sense tho that Paul is on many paths at the same time. Having said that, there is a lot that I haven’t put together story wise, and I have used this thread to know the concepts better. ilovebeersooomuch fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 23:29
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juggalo baby coffin posted:and because sufficiently advanced AIs are capable of making pacts with chaos and summoning demons. That's actually pretty cool/funny.
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Sep 27, 2020 23:35
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THE BAR posted:Being prescient in Dune means being able to see all possible future outcomes. It's not until you're right on top of what you're trying to perceive that the desirable option becomes clear. They constantly have to guess which path to take, out of infinitely possible routes. The better you are at it the more clear it is It isn’t a mystical thing, it’s mentat ability augmented by spice and ancestor memory I guess ancestor memory is magic
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Sep 27, 2020 23:52
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Also the sisterhood have never seen a QH, their names for it are theoretical at best, eschatological at worst.
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Sep 28, 2020 00:28
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exmachina posted:Also the sisterhood have never seen a QH, their names for it are theoretical at best, eschatological at worst. This actually makes a great deal of sense. It implies the BG don’t actually know what they are doing, only that they are striving towards a goal without understanding how to actually get there. I never thought of it like that.
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Sep 28, 2020 00:50
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Colonel Cancer posted:What if it's just series of lobotomized serfs with abacuses Isn't this the plot if Warhammer 40k
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Sep 28, 2020 04:12
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Malcolm XML posted:Isn't this the plot if Warhammer 40k Can't be, not enough skulls
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Sep 28, 2020 05:49
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The abacus is one hundred feet tall and the beads are all skulls. Like a very mathematical tzompantli.
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Sep 28, 2020 06:10
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SniperWoreConverse posted:lol this would surely be insanely impractical and pointless. You'd be better off using a literal mechanical crank machine made out of wood cogs or something. Doc Hawkins posted:it actually makes a kind of sense for the trisolarans, who are the makers of the game, and trying to...uhh...communicate with earth? actually in retrospect i don't understand why they made that game. because they didn't understand lying yet?
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Sep 28, 2020 07:01
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