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Big Mean Jerk posted:Oh poo poo lol, I didn’t know Discovery had their own brand of “Kathleen Kennedy firing imminent?!!!!!” dipshits, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Pretty sure it's mostly the same people
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Oct 12, 2020 00:12
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nine-gear crow posted:And of that I’ve no doubt, I was talking more about the utterly incredulous stuff like story of Alex Kurtzman ripping a 70” plasma screen TV off the wall and throwing it across a conference room in a fit of rage because he was informed that a no-name gimmick YouTuber had made another video trashing Discovery, which totally happened, trust me guys, my sources NEVER lie. poo poo like that. Don't forget the "production on all Star Trek series halted, further development scrapped" videos that started popping up maybe a year or so ago.
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Oct 12, 2020 00:38
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Timby posted:Don't forget the "production on all Star Trek series halted, further development scrapped" videos that started popping up maybe a year or so ago. Then when Strange New Worlds was announced, they claimed that this was an attempt to get more funding or some poo poo
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Oct 12, 2020 00:52
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When people do that, is it just to get more clicks? Or is it pure fantasy wish-fulfillment? Like, if they hate Discovery hard enough, Alex Kurtzman will just throw up his hands and say “welp I’m out, we’re giving Trek back to the fans”. Either way these people need to go outside more.
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Oct 12, 2020 00:59
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Pretty sure in that case it's one of those people that wants NuTrek to die But it's pretty ridiculous because the studio has put a ton of resources into new Trek series and they keep expanding what they are already doing.
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Oct 12, 2020 01:01
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I wonder what correlation there is between the New Trek doom-mongers and the Axanar fans who see it as the true Trek and Paramount shutting it down is a sign they’re scared of it and need to get rid of it cause it’ll make their shows look bad?
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Oct 12, 2020 01:07
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I can't imagine there are that many I think the problem is that actual criticism of shows like Discovery gets drowned out by the assholes whining about 'SJW Trek' because the cast isn't all white anymore
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Oct 12, 2020 01:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:I can't imagine there are that many the discourse surrounding modern trek is either reactionary conservative nerd fascism or banal "which TNG/DS9 character/ship/obscure reference will cameo next?!!!1omg1" It's impenetrable garbage all the way down If society still exists in 20 years then we're going to get all kinds of crazy behind the scenes info about the decisions that went on about these shows and it will surprise no one that half the reason they existed was to give some connected rear end in a top hat's failkids and their pals a nice paycheck along with a producer credit on their resume
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Oct 12, 2020 01:21
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HD DAD posted:When people do that, is it just to get more clicks? Or is it pure fantasy wish-fulfillment? Like, if they hate Discovery hard enough, Alex Kurtzman will just throw up his hands and say “welp I’m out, we’re giving Trek back to the fans”. It's largely the latter, and the behavior isn't new. The Axanar jackwagons literally said in multiple interviews that they were "giving Star Trek back to the fans" and that they would right the wrongs of JJ the Usurper.
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Oct 12, 2020 01:34
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think the problem is that actual criticism of shows like Discovery gets drowned out by the assholes whining about 'SJW Trek' because the cast isn't all white anymore The weird thing about people like that is that there's never been a Star Trek series where the cast was all white.
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Oct 12, 2020 01:35
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There was a lot of rumour early on about the initial chaos of the production and live-rewrites during the filming of season one that I tend to lend some credence to, but it's all been overwhelmed since then by the flood of crap.
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Oct 12, 2020 01:36
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Oh yeah, it’s pretty well documented season one of Disco was a clusterfuck, even if you need to read between the PR lines a bit. But that’s gonna be any show that’s stuck between losing a producer(s) and trying to also be the flagship of a new streaming network. But it’s also obvious CBS believes that they can make Trek a successful brand again, even if it seems like their attempts so far are a little misguided.
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Oct 12, 2020 01:45
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Epicurius posted:The weird thing about people like that is that there's never been a Star Trek series where the cast was all white. Trek's been trying for maximum diversity for 60 years and famously made strides to promote racial equality, how the hell do racist star trek fans even exist? Even going to LGBT rep, every series since TNG has at least tried to include some kind of LGBT character or story (except ENT? does t'pol's hiv allegory count) and TOS literally coined the term "slash fiction" because of how popular Kirk/  was.It truly baffles me how a piece of media can pointedly say "we dont want you here" and still have people doing the Garfield "i wonder who thats for" thing.
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Oct 12, 2020 01:47
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curiousTerminal posted:Trek's been trying for maximum diversity for 60 years and famously made strides to promote racial equality, how the hell do racist star trek fans even exist? Well, you see 60's Trek was made during the one true and good Civil Rights movement that solved racism (so says my high school textbook) so diverse casting was a good thing then. 90's Trek took place after we solved racism and everyone was getting along so the diversity in those shows was no big deal either. But now that everyone's equal and minorities are just raising a stink for no reason, diverse casting decisions are SJW pandering.
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Oct 12, 2020 01:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:Pretty sure in that case it's one of those people that wants NuTrek to die I have my criticisms of both JJ and Kurtzman Trek, but as a Doctor Who fan who lived through the 90s, having "None" isn't really a better option.
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Oct 12, 2020 02:04
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Astroman posted:I have my criticisms of both JJ and Kurtzman Trek, but as a Doctor Who fan who lived through the 90s, having "None" isn't really a better option. I’ll take the Fox TV movie over Discovery and Picard any day I actually do like that movie but I haven’t seen it in like ten years
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Oct 12, 2020 02:08
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Unmature posted:I’ll take the Fox TV movie over Discovery and Picard any day I watched it a couple years back. It’s pretty bad, but Paul McGann was great in it and played a really good Doctor and it really did sell me on the prospect of a Fox Doctor Who series where the Doctor just hangs out in America now instead of the UK and by “America” I mean Vancouver 
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Oct 12, 2020 02:31
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Astroman posted:I have my criticisms of both JJ and Kurtzman Trek, but as a Doctor Who fan who lived through the 90s, having "None" isn't really a better option. As a Doctor Who fan who suffered through the RTD years before switching it off, I think I'm qualified to say, actually yeah it is better.
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Oct 12, 2020 02:42
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Well, you see 60's Trek was made during the one true and good Civil Rights movement that solved racism (so says my high school textbook) so diverse casting was a good thing then. 90's Trek took place after we solved racism and everyone was getting along so the diversity in those shows was no big deal either. But now that everyone's equal and minorities are just raising a stink for no reason, diverse casting decisions are SJW pandering. It should come as no surprise then that ringleaders of this insular backwards-looking cabal of Star Trek conspiracy grifters are all either closely aligned with white supremacists or tend to casually spout white supremacist ideas in the midst of their rants about Star Trek and SJWs. Or, in the case of the dude who was at the center of the "Alex Kurtzman destroys TV because he was mad at [YouTube rear end in a top hat who will go unnamed]" story--a literal, recently outed, full-on SS regalia costume wearing Actual Nazi 
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Oct 12, 2020 02:52
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The last ~10 years have been an absolute revelation about how most big fanbases are 10% normal good decent people and 90% absolute dogshit grifter chuds and outright Nazis, at least online. It’s at a point where I don’t even bother bringing up movies and tv shows I like unless I’m talking to someone I’ve known for years, and even that’s a gamble sometimes.
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Oct 12, 2020 02:57
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nine-gear crow posted:Or, in the case of the dude who was at the center of the "Alex Kurtzman destroys TV because he was mad at [YouTube rear end in a top hat who will go unnamed]" story--a literal, recently outed, full-on SS regalia costume wearing Actual Nazi Guy was just a big fan of the episode Patterns of Force?
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Oct 12, 2020 03:00
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Timby posted:Don't forget the "production on all Star Trek series halted, further development scrapped" videos that started popping up maybe a year or so ago. My incredibly credible source says that disco/picard was a ratings disaster and CBS is flailing!! They are definitely cancelling the shows for real now and there will definitely not be more of them. HD DAD posted:When people do that, is it just to get more clicks? Or is it pure fantasy wish-fulfillment? Like, if they hate Discovery hard enough, Alex Kurtzman will just throw up his hands and say “welp I’m out, we’re giving Trek back to the fans”. Some news site you've never heard of with less than a thousand twitter followers tweets some ~~talks from a credible source about how something juicy happened with the show~~, and a train of other news sites you've never heard of with less than a thousand twitter followers each retweet it. It drives clicks and eyeballs to these unknown news sources and they either make some ad money, or gain followers as a result.
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Oct 12, 2020 03:04
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Epicurius posted:Guy was just a big fan of the episode Patterns of Force? Think more "Okay, but what if Jim Sterling was evil. And a literal Nazi."
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Oct 12, 2020 03:05
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My favorite brand of Star Trek Youtube idiots were the guys who were convinced that that plagiarism lawsuit was going to shut everything down - you know, that indie game developer who also had a story about tardigrades coming out and was convinced Discovery was ripping him off, even though his 'game' consists of a few pieces of concept art, and the main similarity was that they were both riffing off the idea of tardigrades being able to survive in space... which, you know, you can't copyright because it's a real thing.
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Oct 12, 2020 04:01
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Angry Salami posted:My favorite brand of Star Trek Youtube idiots were the guys who were convinced that that plagiarism lawsuit was going to shut everything down - you know, that indie game developer who also had a story about tardigrades coming out and was convinced Discovery was ripping him off, even though his 'game' consists of a few pieces of concept art, and the main similarity was that they were both riffing off the idea of tardigrades being able to survive in space... which, you know, you can't copyright because it's a real thing. That 100% fit in the "wish fulfillment" bucket of wanting to see nu-trek get shut down. It was dumb as heck.
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Oct 12, 2020 04:04
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If it hasn't been made already we really need the "Wow! Cool robot!" meme with a right-wing Star Trek fan going "Wow! Cool spaceship!"
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Oct 12, 2020 05:20
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so we have an annual costume day tradition at work that’s almost ten years old now... this year we’re doing it over videoconference, so I’m thinking I do Parallels-bearded-Riker with the exploding bridge as the video background.
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Oct 12, 2020 05:24
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curiousTerminal posted:Trek's been trying for maximum diversity for 60 years and famously made strides to promote racial equality, how the hell do racist star trek fans even exist? I will say in terms of casting, TNG was probably weakest in terms of diversity and the diversity in casting it's one of the things that I love about Discovery.
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Oct 12, 2020 06:17
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Yeah. It was pretty sad that it took until 2017 for Trek to get its first explicitly LGBTQ characters.
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Oct 12, 2020 06:26
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curiousTerminal posted:Trek's been trying for maximum diversity for 60 years and famously made strides to promote racial equality, how the hell do racist star trek fans even exist? Of the 5 older Trek shows, 4 were 'Americans fly around the galaxy telling others how to behave'. That's the thing they latched onto.
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Oct 12, 2020 09:05
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Pastamania posted:Of the 5 older Trek shows, 4 were 'Americans fly around the galaxy telling others how to behave'. That's the thing they latched onto. And when you point out all the socialism in Trek they short circuit like a computer that just got done talking to Jim Kirk.
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Oct 12, 2020 09:18
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The socialism is Star Trek is also grossly overstated. They basically have a deliberately undefined schrodinger's post-scarcity economy imagined by a bunch of bourgie liberals, portrayed through the perspective of a conventionally hierarchical military organisation. It is by design very easy to ignore the apparent socialist economy because the show bends over backwards to avoid ever pinning down how the Federation actually works and frequently portrays situations that should be incongruous with a utopian communist society.
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Oct 12, 2020 09:33
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multijoe posted:The socialism is Star Trek is also grossly overstated. They basically have a deliberately undefined schrodinger's post-scarcity economy imagined by a bunch of bourgie liberals, portrayed through the perspective of a conventionally hierarchical military organisation. It is by design very easy to ignore the apparent socialist economy because the show bends over backwards to avoid ever pinning down how the Federation actually works and frequently portrays situations that should be incongruous with a utopian communist society. Has anyone trained in economics and sociology ever, like, sat down and puzzled out how the Federation would have to work given what we've seen in the franchise? Because that could be a really neat youtube video if it was done well... and not by a chud.
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Oct 12, 2020 09:43
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8one6 posted:Has anyone trained in economics and sociology ever, like, sat down and puzzled out how the Federation would have to work given what we've seen in the franchise? Because that could be a really neat youtube video if it was done well... and not by a chud. SHE'S series of posts on it being a form of post-scarcity keynesian capitalism is the closest I've seen to the mark. I think they were in the GBS or Sci Fi WiFi Star Trek thread?
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Oct 12, 2020 09:50
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I always took the Federation's economy as still vaguely capitalistic, but in a form that is unrecognizable to the 20th/21st century viewer. Within the Federation, citizens enjoy an extremely generous form of UBI that fulfills nearly everyone's needs and wants (thanks to scarcity being eliminated for most types of products.. obviously some things can't be replicated, like Dilithium or Latinum, so these things exist outside of that scarcity-free bubble). This, coupled with the human sensibility "evolving past the need for material acquisition" or however Picard talks about it in First Contact means that the economics of the Federation appear more fully-automated gay space communism than they probably are. tl;dr it's fully-automated and gay and in space at least, there's no question of that.
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Oct 12, 2020 11:38
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Drone posted:I always took the Federation's economy as still vaguely capitalistic, but in a form that is unrecognizable to the 20th/21st century viewer. I think one of the problems is that the vast majority of the Federation we see is in the form of colonies on the fringes of civilisation, where life is still a bit hard and people are pulling things together. An unintended consequence of their being new colonies constantly popping up all over the place is the implication that there's strong population push factors from 'the centre'.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:20
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Drone posted:I always took the Federation's economy as still vaguely capitalistic, but in a form that is unrecognizable to the 20th/21st century viewer. Yeah. There are still people like Picard and Sisko's dad that own property for example, but that is what they can directly use. Anyone acquiring lots of stuff they couldn't use would face the problem of how to actually enforce that ownership in a world where people don't need to work for survival. Combined with strong recognition of something akin to squatters rights that might get you a little close to what we see.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:33
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It's always seemed to me that the colonies were full of people who either left Earth before the Federation was founded (like Tasha Yar's home planet) or were full of people who just wanted the challenge of frontier life or to create something new in one form or another.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:34
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The Expanses had a take on it - automation + population means there's gently caress all jobs, so everyone either leaves Earth looking for work, sits around and does drugs until they die, or becomes someone who sells the drugs until another dealers gang kills them. Trek probably isn't that far away from it, but in Gene's world getting shitfaced and spewing out bad poetry is considered 'improving yourself, and the rest of humanity', and the drugs are all free. It's no wonder every interesting character gets the gently caress away from Earth as quickly as they can.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:40
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Whenever you guys want to create a method of collecting and distributing energy that is so abundant it's (at least practically) free, and replicators so that all it takes to have anything you need or want is energy, I really honestly won't care what you call that economic system.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:45
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