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Inspector Gesicht posted:I never liked how in Diablo II the number "5" looked a lot like the number "6". Every time I reinstalled the game, I typed in my CD key wrong because of this.
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Oct 13, 2020 15:40
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I never liked how in Diablo II the number "5" looked a lot like the number "6". It's a staggeringly bad piece of font design, yeah. For anyone who can't remember how it looked:  Old 5 vs some font overhaul 5 where it actually looks like a 5.
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Oct 13, 2020 15:47
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bewilderment posted:Soulslikes have been moving towards this for a while but eventually the curtain is going to be pulled back and you'll just dress up as a mage and equip mage abilities if you want to be a mage and get all armored up and equip greatsword if you want to sword dude and all those soul-levels and so on will no longer actually matter or be a part of the experience. Remnant: from the ashes probably has the best replacement for soulslike stats. Instead of them you have traits that cap at 20 levels and a cap on required exp to level at 1500. Most of these are minor boosts even at the max level. Like 15% more explosion damage, and the real strength is from building well with rings and amulets and gear level. So you still need to invest time and effort into making a build by getting the right traits and armor set and gear, you can also swap easily enough on the same character that you can experience variety. It always annoyed me that dark souls would have weapons you would only find way way later that sound really fun to try using, but are really likely to have not preemptively built for. I just want to know if a weapon is fun to use before i invest in using it, not after a long rear end playthrough to get to that point.
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Oct 13, 2020 16:42
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SubNat posted:It's a staggeringly bad piece of font design, yeah. For anyone who can't remember how it looked: There is being stylized and then there is just plain putting another number all together and calling it 5
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Oct 13, 2020 17:20
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Zoig posted:Remnant: from the ashes probably has the best replacement for soulslike stats. Instead of them you have traits that cap at 20 levels and a cap on required exp to level at 1500. Most of these are minor boosts even at the max level. Like 15% more explosion damage, and the real strength is from building well with rings and amulets and gear level. So you still need to invest time and effort into making a build by getting the right traits and armor set and gear, you can also swap easily enough on the same character that you can experience variety. This is one of the things I really liked about DS2. You could burn a soul vessel for a respec, and so builds that would be really difficult early game (like mundane) could be possible, or you could switch to that cool weapon later. Rolling through with a dex build only to switch to beating poo poo to death with a ladle is pretty fun.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:07
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With Diablo 3 giving the ability to respec infinitely for free, they should have also given you the ability to change your characters’ name and gender for free too. Maybe they’ve given you that since I last played.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:14
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sephiRoth IRA posted:This is one of the things I really liked about DS2. You could burn a soul vessel for a respec, and so builds that would be really difficult early game (like mundane) could be possible, or you could switch to that cool weapon later. Technically you can respec 5 times per playthrouygh in DS3, but because of an oversight you can alt-4 out of your game after making your choice but before consuming a pale tongue. Free builds, no limits. Too bad magic and poise sucks in this game.
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Oct 13, 2020 18:19
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Dr Christmas posted:With Diablo 3 giving the ability to respec infinitely for free, they should have also given you the ability to change your characters’ name and gender for free too. Maybe they’ve given you that since I last played. Diablo 3 characters are more or less disposable since all gear and stat points are shared between all the ones you have or make. It's not really made with you having an actual main character in mind. There's a way in-game to level a new non-seasonal character to 70 in a few minutes, at which point they have all the points and gear your other one does. Manager Hoyden has a new favorite as of 21:12 on Oct 13, 2020 |
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Oct 13, 2020 19:48
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Technically you can respec 5 times per playthrouygh in DS3, but because of an oversight you can alt-4 out of your game after making your choice but before consuming a pale tongue. Free builds, no limits. Too bad magic and poise sucks in this game. It was probably a mistake for Dark Souls 3 to go back to a mana bar after two games where you have Vancian magic (you get X amounts of casts per rest). It makes you compromise on how many estus chugs you have, since you need to split them up in both health and mana doses. It would have been fixed if the mana bar regenerated, but nah
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Oct 13, 2020 20:00
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Simply Simon posted:For me personally a big appeal of D2 was seeing my character grow. I knew where I wanted to end up (see: build theorycrafting on forums), but I never took shortcuts unless it was literally unplayable. That is, if your main attack comes at Level 30, then until then you gotta deal with no attack, or the skills on the way there but at level 1. It's not for everyone, but having a ready-made character at the start would kill the point of the game for me, because Diablo is not about the moment-to-moment combat or skill involved in it or whatever to me, but about starting with nothing and ending when you're satisfied with having gotten all the skills, stats and gear you want for this character. Then you make a new one. What you're saying here is straight up "Diablo is not fun to play, only to think about playing and thing about having played". This is awful, games should be fun/entertaining. FF14 doesn't let you make any kind of build, just pick your job, and base game levelling content is still excruciating if you've played a game before because you're lacking so much of your full kit. I don't get a 'sense of pride and accomplishment' just because Dragoon is lacking an AoE button before level 40. It sucks to play in dungeon content until you get that and then it becomes fun to play. The ideal case is that everything is fun to play, which is mostly is from levels 50 to 80!
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Oct 14, 2020 00:29
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I picked up the D2 expansion back in highschool to play with friends and was told "oh man hurricane druids are great and fun to play you should be one" And jesus christ that was loving painful to play. But had I been able to respec? It wouldn't have been a miserable slog until you get hurricane and then I wouldn't have found out I really hated that skill and play style
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Oct 14, 2020 00:40
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Wouldn't that be the same if you played a druid and found out you didn't like the class? I mean, I played hours of Diablo 3 only to realize I hated the entire game. There's no respec for that.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:33
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Phigs posted:Wouldn't that be the same if you played a druid and found out you didn't like the class? No, see, the way Diablo 2 skills work is they have synergies. If you spend points on Skill A it makes Skill G better, Skill B does the same and so on. So to get to Hurricane you have to go through a whole tree of lovely skills that suck and aren't fun because if you spend points on anything else your final skill isn't as good. So you don't find out you don't like the Hurricane play style until you invest time into the thing waiting for when it gets good and then it doesn't.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:38
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I liked Diablo 3 giving you the option to change things up on the fly. It gave you plenty of ways to try out different character variations.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:46
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Imo there's no excuse for modern games to not give you some way of respeccing your characters nowadays.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:53
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Maybe some developers don’t want to make their games for casual scrubs who cry like a baby because they have to play everything on easy mode
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Oct 14, 2020 01:57
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That bugged me in Control on my last playthrough. They added the ability to reset your skill tree in one of the updates, which is great, but the catch is that it costs a chunk of one of the resources you collect. I missed that and was having fun trying out alternate builds until I suddenly found it out when I bankrupted myself. The player's gonna get super powerful no matter what, limiting the amount you can toy around with the system does nothing but get in the way of having fun, imo.oldpainless posted:Maybe some developers don’t want to make their games for casual scrubs who cry like a baby because they have to play everything on easy mode I've asked you repeatedly to stop doxxing me t 
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Oct 14, 2020 02:05
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Len posted:No, see, the way Diablo 2 skills work is they have synergies. If you spend points on Skill A it makes Skill G better, Skill B does the same and so on. Didn't they not add the synergies until the game had been out for something like a decade? I know they weren't in for 95% of the time I played it.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:09
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The Moon Monster posted:Didn't they not add the synergies until the game had been out for something like a decade? I know they weren't in for 95% of the time I played it. They were out by the time I got the expansion In 2006 or 7 Edit: apparently 2003 https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.10_(Diablo_II) Edit 2: Load came out in 2001 so about two years Len has a new favorite as of 02:16 on Oct 14, 2020 |
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Oct 14, 2020 02:14
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Len posted:No, see, the way Diablo 2 skills work is they have synergies. If you spend points on Skill A it makes Skill G better, Skill B does the same and so on. Yeah but what I'm talking about is you could level a class in Diablo 3 and not really know how it plays until an equivalent amount of time because you don't have the skills or runes you expect to use. Then when you have the whole class on hand you realise you don't like playing it. And when that happens you have to reroll because there's no inter-class respec. Why is that different from your build being something you don't like. I get that wind druid is one of those builds that starts out real slow and doesn't come online until late, but that's not a feature of the talent trees, its something specific to the build. The same could happen in the Diablo 3 system if a class just didn't have good build options until much later into the game.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:19
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That's a fair point but I think it's because you just switch to a different class and can get that whole thing unlocked. With how 2 worked if you wanted to try a different druid spec you have to start from a new level 1 druid. In d3 if you don't like witch doctor you can fart around with different skills or move to a barbarian. It's effectively the same but it feels less awful because it's a different toolkit
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Oct 14, 2020 02:22
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Len posted:They were out by the time I got the expansion In 2006 or 7 Huh, I must have been confusing when they came out with the time I found out about them, then.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:26
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I think the deeper thing dragging Diablo down for me is, I just can't bother with a second playthrough period. I've tried with both D2 and D3, but I get about three areas into my second playthrough... and I just feel the grind and put it down. Turns out I just like seeing the new areas and enemies and then I'm done. I don't think I'm the target audience, though...
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Oct 14, 2020 02:29
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lord funk posted:I think the deeper thing dragging Diablo down for me is, I just can't bother with a second playthrough period. I've tried with both D2 and D3, but I get about three areas into my second playthrough... and I just feel the grind and put it down. That's how I feel, if I'm playing with friends I can do more because it's a group thing but i can't be added to do the same thing with bigger numbers again and again and again. My PoE friend restarts every season and levels multiple characters and that is not my jam
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Oct 14, 2020 02:45
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Phigs posted:Yeah but what I'm talking about is you could level a class in Diablo 3 and not really know how it plays until an equivalent amount of time because you don't have the skills or runes you expect to use. Then when you have the whole class on hand you realise you don't like playing it. And when that happens you have to reroll because there's no inter-class respec. Why is that different from your build being something you don't like. The Diablo 2 method is simply terrible. Oh, you made a class wrong or want to try a different spec? Well start over. In D3, you could at least try different styles within a class, and could change whenever you felt like it.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:59
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CitizenKain posted:The Diablo 2 method is simply terrible. Oh, you made a class wrong or want to try a different spec? Well start over. In D3, you could at least try different styles within a class, and could change whenever you felt like it. Same. I hated D2 but loved D3 for how casual it was. I could change out talents and abilities on a whim to try things out and see what I liked best, and I never felt like I was being punished for my choices or making a 'wrong' decision I couldn't change with the click of a button.
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Oct 14, 2020 03:21
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I find that there's some value in not allowing fully free respecs, in that it makes your character build this personal thing that you had to work on and build up over time. But it's easy to destroy any interest in experimentation by setting the cost of trying a different build too high (and "you have to start an entirely new character" is way too high of a cost).
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Oct 14, 2020 03:25
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Man even doing respecs for free is a pain in the rear end
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Oct 14, 2020 03:30
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Triarii posted:I find that there's some value in not allowing fully free respecs, in that it makes your character build this personal thing that you had to work on and build up over time. But it's easy to destroy any interest in experimentation by setting the cost of trying a different build too high (and "you have to start an entirely new character" is way too high of a cost). Kingdoms of Amalur, for all its flaws, had respecs nailed perfectly. They weren’t super expensive, but they cost enough that you weren’t respeccing constantly. It was the kind of game you’re not really going to restart with a new character so getting to try all the different play styles was great.
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Oct 14, 2020 04:07
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Diablo 2 added the ability to respec but you only got a handful of free respecs per character and after that it was a process that was neither cheap nor easy. It was added in 2010.
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Oct 14, 2020 04:33
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The Moon Monster posted:Huh, I must have been confusing when they came out with the time I found out about them, then. Well to be fair while it was a long time ago now it was near the end of D2's update cycle. And synergies still aren't really done. Blizzard said they were going to keep adding more and rebalancing existing synergies to improve skills that see little to no use but then only had one, maybe two, patches that touched synergies after they were implemented and they just barely did. There are still entire skill trees that are completely synergyless. Of course they also claimed at one point that ladder only runewords would get cycled into single player / non-ladder and new runewords would be added every few ladder seasons and that never happened either. It felt like the developers had a lot of cool ideas they wanted to work on but there was no financial incentive to fund them once it became clear a new expansion was never going to be made. CitizenKain posted:The Diablo 2 method is simply terrible. Oh, you made a class wrong or want to try a different spec? Well start over. In D3, you could at least try different styles within a class, and could change whenever you felt like it. Eh, everyone has their own tastes I guess. I prefer the D2 way. The act of seeing my build develop over time is fun. Discovering the areas the build has trouble with and trying to find workarounds is fun. And every choice feeling persistent makes it more satisfying to make that choice. Of course D2 has added respecs now, unfortunately, they're definitely in the top 4 of changes I hate in the game. In no particular order: Respecs Uniques getting level requirements(mostly because so many of them are about 30% too high to make sense) Cooldowns Gambling uniques from 3% to never, then eventually upgraded to almost never
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Oct 14, 2020 05:26
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bewilderment posted:What you're saying here is straight up "Diablo is not fun to play, only to think about playing and thing about having played". I have zero issues with respecs existing now in D2 OR D3's system, I just like D2's system as well. Many different things can be good and fun at the same time for different reasons.
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Oct 14, 2020 07:30
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Vandar posted:Imo there's no excuse for modern games to not give you some way of respeccing your characters nowadays. In Tyranny I loved the NPC you could unlock (with some in-game currency) who allowed you to respec infinitely at no cost. Especially since my main character was a spellcaster and you could create a whole bunch of powerful spells by pumping up the stat that affected your spell creation. It also allowed me to switch over to a different talent tree for one of my other party members, because it turned out giving her weapons was way more effective than investing in unarmed synergies. Apparently they added that NPC in a patch, so it was a bit of oversight on the dev's part initially.
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Oct 14, 2020 08:59
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If your game has a 100 gubbins to collect all over the map, add some way in game to add them to the map and tracks as I collect them. I get maybe during the main game you want to make them hard to find so I don't get overpowered or whatever but in post game theres no reason to not give that to me so I have something to do.
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Oct 14, 2020 10:13
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Barudak posted:If your game has a 100 gubbins to collect all over the map, add some way in game to add them to the map and tracks as I collect them. I get maybe during the main game you want to make them hard to find so I don't get overpowered or whatever but in post game theres no reason to not give that to me so I have something to do. Spider-Man: Web of Shadows had 2180 spider token collectables hidden across the map. The minimap tracker for them only unlocked once you had found the first 1000.
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Oct 14, 2020 10:18
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Having played Dragons Dogma Dark Arisen a few hours recently; it would be nice to be able to respec your strength/stamina/magic levels, but far beyond that, it would be really nice to save equipment sets for the different vocations you can swap between. Having to spend ten minutes figuring what your best outfitting is from your massive closet full of armours and weapons every time you want to change from a sorcerer to a ranger is a real pain in the rear end. I've enjoyed the game a lot but boy is there a bunch of klunk in its mechanics.
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Oct 14, 2020 11:45
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NoneMoreNegative posted:Having played Dragons Dogma Dark Arisen a few hours recently; it would be nice to be able to respec your strength/stamina/magic levels, but far beyond that, it would be really nice to save equipment sets for the different vocations you can swap between. Having to spend ten minutes figuring what your best outfitting is from your massive closet full of armours and weapons every time you want to change from a sorcerer to a ranger is a real pain in the rear end. I think that you end up levelling up enough that you don't have to sweat the small stuff.
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Oct 14, 2020 12:29
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Icon of Sin is bullshit. Doom II is generally really fun and even the less good levels aren't crazy difficult or anything, but I just can't do that last level. I know what I'm supposed to do; I've seen it done. But basically as soon as a Pain Elemental spawns the sky fills with skulls and my chance of being able to actually stay on the lift and fire a rocket at the right time (and not hit a Lost Soul) drops to zero. It's not fun and it doesn't build on the skills required for the rest of the game, it's a dumb gimmick and it sucks.
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Oct 14, 2020 12:54
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Barudak posted:If your game has a 100 gubbins to collect all over the map, add some way in game to add them to the map and tracks as I collect them. I get maybe during the main game you want to make them hard to find so I don't get overpowered or whatever but in post game theres no reason to not give that to me so I have something to do. Say what you will about the Assassin's Creed games, at least they put the treasure icons on the map.
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Oct 14, 2020 13:15
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bony tony posted:Say what you will about the Assassin's Creed games, at least they put the treasure icons on the map.  
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Oct 14, 2020 13:19
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