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CelestialScribe posted:So what you're saying is, breaking restrictions is okay, if the risk is low enough? I'm not sure you get this thing called temporal order but the outbreak happened after the major round of BLM protests. It's the behaviour after that lockdown which is the problem. You can see here that because the BLM protests were before a thing, it's judged differently to the things that happened after. Also I know that you know this too, and this is just a demonstration that you consider yourself the main character and everyone else is just an NPC who doesn't really matter as long as you specifically can break the rules.
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Oct 13, 2020 23:41
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Recoome posted:I'm not sure you get this thing called temporal order but the outbreak happened after the major round of BLM protests. It's the behaviour after that lockdown which is the problem. You can see here that because the BLM protests were before a thing, it's judged differently to the things that happened after. The BLM protests broke restrictions. They were actively against the official restrictions at the time, and Dan Andrews specifically told attendees to not go. How is that in dispute? What you seem to be saying is, "the protestors were justified in breaking restrictions because the risk was low enough". How is that not the same argument that I'm making? What your real argument seems to be is, "the risk was low enough and the reason drastic enough to break restrictions". In which case, sure. Just make that argument then. Don't act as though they weren't putting anyone at risk.
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Oct 13, 2020 23:43
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Breakfast Burrito posted:Your reason is not good enough to break restrictions A white Kid gotta play outside vs aboriginal deaths in custody.
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Oct 13, 2020 23:54
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CelestialScribe's great-great-grandfather: "Now that we banned grazing on the village green, it's finally starting to recover. So there's no harm in sneaking a few of my sheep back onto it." Warning: I'm down in Tasmania, so I believe I'm not allowed to have an opinion on anything happening in Victoria or Melbourne. (Though I am a little paranoid about the reopening to most of the mainland in a week or two.)
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Oct 13, 2020 23:56
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Into The Mild posted:A white Kid gotta play outside vs aboriginal deaths in custody. My kid is not neurotypical. He forms attachments and becomes extremely upset when he is out of routine. He loves this particular park because it has birds that he likes. It happens to be out of my 5km range but I'm not going to feel bad about taking my autistic child to one of his favourite places to give him some joy. (To be fair, I went there on my own this morning because I like it too - completely unnecessary? Sure.) If that's not a good enough reason - fine. I just won't accept any critiques about "spreading the virus" because that reason seems to fluctuate based on whether or not we think someone's reason is good enough.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:00
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uvar posted:Warning: I'm down in Tasmania, so I believe I'm not allowed to have an opinion on anything happening in Victoria or Melbourne. (Though I am a little paranoid about the reopening to most of the mainland in a week or two.) That's right. You aren't.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:01
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CelestialScribe posted:My kid is not neurotypical. He forms attachments and becomes extremely upset when he is out of routine. He loves this particular park because it has birds that he likes. It happens to be out of my 5km range but I'm not going to feel bad about taking my autistic child to one of his favourite places to give him some joy. (To be fair, I went there on my own this morning because I like it too - completely unnecessary? Sure.) Awesome no one wants to hear more about your loving kid or whatever.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:03
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JBP posted:Awesome no one wants to hear more about your loving kid or whatever. Okay. What I was commenting on earlier though is apparent in this thread: people are frustrated with these restrictions because the lines drawn aren't logical. There isn't any reason why L-platers shouldn't practice if they need to. There isn't any reason why people can't exercise outside as much as they want. There isn't any reason why there was a curfew (except to make the police's job easier - which I don't know why this mostly left-wing thread would support). The issue is that so many of these restrictions are not based on medical advice, they're based on making it easier for people to follow the rules. Which then gets transformed into, "if you break these rules, you're spreading the virus", which just isn't true. I have to applaud the Vic Government's messaging here - they've done a fantastic job. Unfortunately, it's just not true. The rules that are based on medical advice - only send one person out to shop, wear masks, work from home, no family visits - these are hard to deal with but ultimately understandable. It's the logical detachment of the others that makes them hard to swallow, and that's why you're seeing Victoria's support begin to wane.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:11
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CelestialScribe posted:What I am doing is potentially setting a bad example. Thread title.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:13
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I too am unable to understand that leaving the 5km area and potentially interacting with people outside the designated restrictions increases risk of the virus spreading. Masks and social distancing are 100% effective and it is 100% guaranteed that I will not interact with another person when breaking the rules. If every person broke the rules there would be no increase in risk from the millions of possible interactions each day and I take no responsibility for my actions. Get hosed bootlickers.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:22
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CelestialScribe posted:Oh, I absolutely agree I'm putting myself outside of the rules. What I disagree with is people saying that I'm putting others at risk, which I'm not. If you're going to make that argument, you also should criticise the BLM protests for the same thing. Just be consistent. How about you shut the gently caress up with whataboutism?
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Oct 14, 2020 00:23
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KTS posted:How about you shut the gently caress up with whataboutism? If you're going to criticise, criticise consistently.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:25
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CelestialScribe posted:If you're going to criticise, criticise consistently. You've used something from months ago to divert criticism of your actions now. Its so painfully boring and not conducive to whats actually going on here. I regret responding in good faith to you point because it validates you changing to goal posts away from actions now.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:29
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I am a good and attentive driver and there's hardly anyone around at night anyway; therefore, it's reasonable for me to drive my Skyline down Princes Highway at 130 k's an hour. I am an experienced fisherman and good swimmer; it is reasonable for me not to wear a life jacket or carry an EPIRB. I've spent years in the outdoors. Yes, it's a breezy 35-degree day, but I know how to manage my campfire carefully; the total fire ban is for those other, irresponsible types, not for me.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:41
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The cluster in Shepparton reported last night is confirmed to have come from the same Melburnian who spread it to Kilmore by breaking the rules (had a work permit, but even if you're cleared to travel to rural Vic you're supposed to abide by Melbourne restrictions i.e. do not sit in a cafe, do not do non-essential shopping), and who apparently also lied to contact tracers about where he'd been. https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/three-new-covid-19-cases-emerge-in-shepparton-20201014-p564uk.html But given that he visited two different tyre shops and Bunnings, I think we can safely guess his demographic and conclude that he won't get his face plastered on the front of the Herald Sun like the African girls who went Queensland.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:44
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Here CS: https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-03/coronavirus-has-science-changed-surface-transmission-covid-19/12512720 That's how Covid 19 is transmitted. Unless you are using a hover board your solo (and/or accompanied) walk involves touching surfaces and possibly (without your knowledge or consent) walking through aerosol droplets containing the virus. Much less likely outdoors and away from 'crowded areas' but still possible. Going further than the mandated minimum increases your risk of casual accidental contacts, while waiting at traffic lights (etc.) just by the extra time spent in transit in an urban environment. These rules aren't without their flaws/faults/logic holes but they are based on science. Science that your previous blanket 'not spreading the virus' would seem to not support. Also I'm from NSW and that doesn't alter facts at all, so gently caress that line of argument to hell and back. And JBP I'd much rather hear about his kid than a whole bunch of other crap that gets posted here so maybe back the gently caress up on that. Meanwhile in the corrupt hellscape that is NSW the luckiest premier of all seems to be having a little spot of bother: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-14/nsw-premier-gladys-berejiklian-daryl-maguire-icac-hearing/12762374 Hello! quote:Her handling of the bushfire crisis and ability to keep the country's largest economy functioning through much of the coronavirus pandemic so far has won her plaudits from the public and even the other side of politics. Are people really that stupid? https://npansw.org.au/campaigns-2/protect-our-parks/national-parks-and-wildlife-service/ https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-06/national-parks-underfunded-former-ranger-warns/11282562 https://www.themandarin.com.au/120342-parks-and-wildlife-funding-cuts-in-the-spotlight-as-nsw-nationals-play-the-blame-game/ The NPWS (and state forests) have not replaced around 80% of the bridges burnt out last fire season. That greatly restricts the access of fire fighters to fire grounds and places them at extreme risk should they become trapped due to fires cutting of other approaches. It is complete insanity and only a very mild fire season will prevent a complete disaster. Based on current infrastructure replacement rates there will need to be around three to fivbe years of mild fire seasons to allow for the current funding to cope. And let's be clear these missing bridges are also restricting public access to natural resources and endangering the public if they to find themselves unable to return on the route they entered from. Will be interesting to see whether the Rooters, Tooters, and Shooters actual stand by there threat to insist on GB's resignations (Along with thread favourite and One Nation member Mark "complete gently caress head" Latham). https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-14/gladys-berejiklian-daryl-maguire-icac-evidence-live-blog/12761936 And Mr Morrison would certainly know what a "numpty decision" is. KT was the front seat passenger in a car driven by CN that crashed into a power pole at high speeds and burst into flames. The car was being driven at speeds of up to 171km/h in a 60km/h zone to evade police, who had tried to flag it down earlier but were not in pursuit. CN was killed in the crash and three others, including KT’s sister, were injured. They said they had been trying to get CN to stop but he was concerned about being arrested. ISSUES RAISED Injured in custody.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:44
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Carnaticum posted:Thread title.
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Oct 14, 2020 00:48
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freebooter posted:https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/three-new-covid-19-cases-emerge-in-shepparton-20201014-p564uk.html
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Oct 14, 2020 00:52
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Cartoon posted:That's how Covid 19 is transmitted. Unless you are using a hover board your solo (and/or accompanied) walk involves touching surfaces and possibly (without your knowledge or consent) walking through aerosol droplets containing the virus. Much less likely outdoors and away from 'crowded areas' but still possible. Going further than the mandated minimum increases your risk of casual accidental contacts, while waiting at traffic lights (etc.) just by the extra time spent in transit in an urban environment. These rules aren't without their flaws/faults/logic holes but they are based on science. Science that your previous blanket 'not spreading the virus' would seem to not support. Also I'm from NSW and that doesn't alter facts at all, so gently caress that line of argument to hell and back. Are you suggesting here that someone can contract the virus while driving? I'm genuinely asking, because you mention traffic lights here.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:13
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honestly it's pretty disgusting how celestialscribe is taking his autistic child outside to playgounds in the hope that it catches covid or whatever.........
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Oct 14, 2020 01:15
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Can someone contract Coronavirus whilst wearing a bike helmet and riding on the sidewalk on King St? Curious minds must know!
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Oct 14, 2020 01:24
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ISSUES RAISED Proximity to birds
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Oct 14, 2020 01:30
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My sister's a nurse in Melbourne and could do with a lot less people just deciding they're exceptional super cool dudes who can arbitrarily decide what rules they do and do not follow. I think you'll find most rules that end up in place regarding this coronavirus came about in part because people thought they were fine no problemo and did what they wanted and spread the cough around.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:34
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Horizon Burning posted:honestly it's pretty disgusting how celestialscribe is taking his autistic child outside to playgounds in the hope that it catches covid or whatever......... I believe the group consensus was to leave the child out of this
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Oct 14, 2020 01:37
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CelestialScribe posted:Are you suggesting here that someone can contract the virus while driving? I'm genuinely asking, because you mention traffic lights here. PAC was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer while being treated for pneumonia at Alice Springs hospital. He was referred to hospital from the Alice Springs Correctional Centre, where he was serving a five-year sentence. He was able to speak to his family before he died, but his family said at the inquest that they were distressed to see him still shackled to his bed in the Alice Springs hospital, despite being terminally ill. The coroner recommended a review should reconsider guidelines around restraint of prisoners in hospital, and consider increasing resources to the Alice Springs correctional centre's medical clinic. ISSUES RAISED Procedures not all followed, force used.
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Oct 14, 2020 01:40
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freebooter posted:I am a good and attentive driver and there's hardly anyone around at night anyway; therefore, it's reasonable for me to drive my Skyline down Princes Highway at 130 k's an hour. CS you are this Onion article: https://www.theonion.com/how-bad-for-the-environment-can-throwing-away-one-plast-1819571260 quote:'How Bad For The Environment Can Throwing Away One Plastic Bottle Be?' 30 Million People Wonder
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Oct 14, 2020 02:06
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Cartoon posted:Apart from the obvious stopped at stop light/stop sign/pedestrian crossing/railway gate/give way sign and passing into a contaminated area of air directly. What about if someone gets droplets on the outside of your car and then you touch the outside of your car and then touch your face? Also "I'm" not suggesting anything. Read the article provided. I think we can both agree this particular example is a bit ridiculous.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:11
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Nobody has ever crashed their car going for a drive further than 5km from their house resulting in them unexpectedly coming in close contact with multiple people, including potentially a trip to hospital.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:20
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CelestialScribe posted:I think we can both agree this particular example is a bit ridiculous. Kwementyaye Briscoe died in the Alice Springs watch house in January 2012 after being arrested for drinking in a public place. His death was the second of its kind at the watch house in two years. The coroner found his death was preventable and the medical care provided was "completely inadequate". Briscoe was dragged to his cell, where he eventually stopped breathing. The cell checks conducted were insufficient. The coroner made three recommendations to Northern Territory police, and two to the NT government. Individual police members were internally disciplined. ISSUES RAISED Medical care required but not all given, procedures not all followed, force used, mental health / cognitive impairment.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:23
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Periphery posted:Nobody has ever crashed their car going for a drive further than 5km from their house resulting in them unexpectedly coming in close contact with multiple people, including potentially a trip to hospital. A crashed car isn't what's being discussed. If your argument is that people should stay home to reduce the risk of a car crash, then sure, I guess.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:24
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Or required roadside assistance, or filled up their petrol tank
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Oct 14, 2020 02:25
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CelestialScribe posted:I think we can both agree this particular example is a bit ridiculous. No? It's astounding how confident you are of your completely miserable knowledge of this virus and viral transmission in general. freebooter posted:Or required roadside assistance, or filled up their petrol tank Or opened the window. Or had their child open the window.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:29
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Change the rules so that CS is able to go however many kilometres to secluded bushland, but never come back.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:30
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Dire Lemming posted:No? It's astounding how confident you are of your completely miserable knowledge of this virus and viral transmission in general. If that's truly the case, shouldn't we be shutting down drive-through fast food joints right now?
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Oct 14, 2020 02:37
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Horizon Burning posted:ISSUES RAISED don't bring me into this ok
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Oct 14, 2020 02:40
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CelestialScribe posted:If that's truly the case, shouldn't we be shutting down drive-through fast food joints right now? People need food and a drive through is one of the less risky ways of getting it. People don't need to take their kid to a park outside of their 5km radius.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:42
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CelestialScribe posted:Oh I understand why people are angry. I just don't give a poo poo. I'm not taking part in any activity that puts people at risk whatsoever, (or at least, not any more than the current restrictions do), so I don't really care. Imagine being this much of loving pillock to fail to realize that the probable reason why your little jaunt to the park was safe is because others are following the rules and thus giving you the space needed to be a dickhead in by not going to the park.
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Oct 14, 2020 02:48
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GoldStandardConure posted:don't bring me into this ok you're not real
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Oct 14, 2020 02:51
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Hey Google what is "tragedy of the commons".
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Oct 14, 2020 03:12
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This is a great case study of how some people are unable to imagine action on a macro scale. Yes, going to a park and barely going near anyone has a miniscule chance of spreading the virus; if five million people in Melbourne do it, that chance is no longer miniscule and the virus will spread. The government has to govern for everybody, not just for CelestialScribe. Like, the dickhead who broke the rules and sparked clusters in Kilmore and Shepparton by not abiding by Melbourne restrictions when he was permitted to travel to regional Victoria? Absolutely not the only person doing that. There would be hundreds of them, thousands of them. But all it takes is one. That's why it's important for everybody to abide by the rules. This is a very, very simple concept, and whether you can understand and accept it is the difference between whether you can understand and accept that other people exist and you live in a community of them, or whether you're fundamentally some grade of narcissist, psychopath or solipsist.
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Oct 14, 2020 03:29
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