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Dangersim posted:Its very simple how it works, judges are just terrible and corrupt. well yes, boxing scoring is easy but boxing scoring criteria is arcane
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Oct 18, 2020 06:13
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straight up brolic posted:https://twitter.com/CompuBox/status/1317691305665888257?s=20 lopez landed 50 in the last round, that's wild, loma really was pressing the issue
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Oct 18, 2020 06:14
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straight up brolic posted:https://twitter.com/CompuBox/status/1317691305665888257?s=20 I mean...that’s good defense at the same time. Those totals for Lopez would be limp in most fights, and it’s easy to see why lomachenko didn’t feel worried because he wasn’t really getting hit but...uh, he forgot the other thing
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Oct 18, 2020 06:17
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thats not even from tonight wtf
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Oct 18, 2020 06:18
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DeimosRising posted:Yeah but he kind of never has? I wouldn’t t exactly say he’s scared of power but he’s not confident he can win if he’s getting hit a lot. This fight he took that to an extreme that’s hard to understand from outside though. He looked completely confident for six rounds while losing at least 5 of them He underestimated Lopez's range and speed and took too long to realize it.
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Oct 18, 2020 06:18
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I had it 7-5 Lopez, but I think that's the closest that you really could have scored the fight. Lomachenko is a natural featherweight and had a 14 month layoff, but it was still jarring to see him clearly get outboxed. Lopez even bit down and clearly won the twelfth, so I don't think that you could even argue that Lomachenko deserved a draw. Lopez won the fight. Lomachenko should move back down to 130. There are good fights there for him: Oscar Valdez, Miguel Berchelt, Joseph Diaz. He's a small lightweight and he will continue to have tougher than expected fights at 135 as he gets into his mid 30s and slows down a bit. At 130 I think he could still recapture his old magic. I hope Lopez doesn't immediately jump to 140. Lightweight still has Devin Haney and Gervonta Davis; two relatively big fights that would continue to build Lopez's mainstream profile.
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Oct 18, 2020 06:19
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JOHN CENA posted:thats not even from tonight wtf Edit: It's from fight this afternoon that had an actually egregious result so Teddy's point stands even if he got a fairly minor detail wrong. Not you, but it's kind of pissing me off to see everyone in his Twitter replies loving rules lawyering him and missing the whole point https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/10/17/21521022/ritson-vs-vazquez-results-robbery-scores-matchroom-boxing-news-2020 The SituAsian fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Oct 18, 2020 |
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Oct 18, 2020 06:19
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The Ninth Layer posted:He underestimated Lopez's range and speed and took too long to realize it. Absolutely. It’s just interesting to think how he didn’t realize it so to speak. Because he wasn’t getting hit he didn’t process quite how he had no route to landing. He was sure Lopez would slow down and he could start generating misses and punishing them until it was way too late. The rounds just went too fast for him
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Oct 18, 2020 06:25
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Cigar Aficionado posted:I had it 7-5 Lopez, but I think that's the closest that you really could have scored the fight. Lomachenko is a natural featherweight and had a 14 month layoff, but it was still jarring to see him clearly get outboxed. Lopez even bit down and clearly won the twelfth, so I don't think that you could even argue that Lomachenko deserved a draw. Lopez won the fight. haney wanted loma real bad and there was no rematch clause for this bout so i imagine haney tries to schedule a fight with lopez and then loma for what it's worth lopez seems to want to fight ryan garcia and gervonta davis so he's probably gonna stick around at lightweight for at least another year or two
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Oct 18, 2020 06:28
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His corner did a disservice by telling him to be patient at the end of (I think) round 4.
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Oct 18, 2020 06:29
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Lopez just didn't let Lomachenko find range for the first half of that fight. He presented too big of a puzzle for lomachenko to get in and was able to exploit the low activity as the bigger and stronger guy. Loma came on harder in the second half but Lopez was still able to dig down and unload on him in the 12th sort of the same analysis everybody is giving but its what happened
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Oct 18, 2020 06:30
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https://twitter.com/SIChrisMannix/status/1317700159309025281?s=19
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Oct 18, 2020 06:34
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That poo poo absolutely rocked for every second of it. Teofimo is the man
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Oct 18, 2020 06:36
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The Ninth Layer posted:His corner did a disservice by telling him to be patient at the end of (I think) round 4. The fight kind of reminded me of Hopkins/Taylor I, which had an almost identical narrative of the older champion giving away all of the early rounds before turning it on and winning the second half of the fight. The difference here is that Lopez turned things back around in the 12th and left little doubt as to who won the fight. I don't think Lomachenko stepping on the gas earlier would have necessarily benefited him. His face at the end was very marked up as it is. He got beat up pretty good. If he had forced the fight earlier, he would have gotten hit even more. Ultimately Lomachenko was just too small. Lopez was able to keep him at his preferred range most of the night, and had too much power and speed for Lomachenko to consistently land his shots without taking punishment. There were more than a few times that Lopez would land not quite flush and it still hurt Lomachenko and/or moved him back. Lopez was just too big and too good.
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Oct 18, 2020 06:44
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Cigar Aficionado posted:The fight kind of reminded me of Hopkins/Taylor I, which had an almost identical narrative of the older champion giving away all of the early rounds before turning it on and winning the second half of the fight. The difference here is that Lopez turned things back around in the 12th and left little doubt as to who won the fight. Creating an uncertain fight (and potential knockout loss!) is something that many defense-first fighters will not do early on, and Lomachenko certainly fits that bill. However, even as early as round 2, it is clear that Lomachenko is a gifted offensive fighter as well and could have given Lopez enough to think about so there would be more opportunities earlier while taking the same amount of early body shots. I mean, there's a difference between landing single digit shots in a round, and THROWING single digit shots, holy poo poo was that bad by Loma. Who would have thought that using a hard jab, staying in the proper range, and having a power advantage would make a p4p fighter look ordinary? Lomachenko was looking for perfect untouchable windows, and there were none. He's going to have to accept that, especially as he gets older. Boxing is not very kind to those who try to move back down in weight as they age (I have no source on this as a consistent thing, just each fighter that I've seen try it doesn't look so hot).
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Oct 18, 2020 15:55
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Older fighters do typically fare poorly moving back down in weight, but considering that Lomachenko is only 32 years old and he's more of a natural featherweight as it is, I don't see him struggling if he moves down from 135 to 130.
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Oct 18, 2020 16:55
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Cigar Aficionado posted:I don't think Lomachenko stepping on the gas earlier would have necessarily benefited him. His face at the end was very marked up as it is. He got beat up pretty good. If he had forced the fight earlier, he would have gotten hit even more. Ultimately Lomachenko was just too small. Lopez was able to keep him at his preferred range most of the night, and had too much power and speed for Lomachenko to consistently land his shots without taking punishment. There were more than a few times that Lopez would land not quite flush and it still hurt Lomachenko and/or moved him back. Lopez was just too big and too good. This is pretty much how I read it. Lomachenko needed to open up more and have a riskier fight to win rounds, but its not entirely clear to me that he wins that fight either. Especially with the way Teo came forward in round 12. Technically Teo didn't need that last round to win on the cards, but without the narrative is a lot muddier, you'd have lots of guys with draw cards talking about how Lomachenko won the last 5 rounds clearly and how he'd dominate a rematch etc. Whereas now there's no doubt that Teo won. balancedbias posted:Creating an uncertain fight (and potential knockout loss!) is something that many defense-first fighters will not do early on, and Lomachenko certainly fits that bill. However, even as early as round 2, it is clear that Lomachenko is a gifted offensive fighter I mean, Lomachenko's defence is good, but I really don't typically think of him as defence-first, his offensive genius is sort of his whole thing even if he's a pretty well rounded fighter. Regarding moving down in weight, Loma is pretty clearly fighting above his natural weight and can probably move down fairly easily, in the vein of Nonito Donaire
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Oct 18, 2020 18:06
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Just watching the fight again, crazy that Lopez came in with the plan to say at range and outbox Lopez and actually executed it perfectly.
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Oct 18, 2020 19:42
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Thinking about the P4P list following this fight. Here's the Ring list:
Which is probably fairly close to most people's P4P list after rearranging the top 6 and maybe replacing a fighter or two in the 7-10 range with some guy like Fury, Berchelt, LSC, Josh Taylor, etc. I'll kind of treat it like a definitive list for now, So where do we go from here? Canelo is clearly at the top now, before you could have credibly placed Loma at the top but obviously he's dropping off after this loss. How far though? I don't know if its quite right to drop him off entirely, even though I'm sure lots of people will do that. I'm also not sure where to put Lopez. I'm a big believer in accomplishments in multiple weight classes for P4P legacy so sometimes I'm a bit harsh on guys who do everything in one division. Another thing making ranking Lopez difficult is that this is an amazing win for him, but he is the bigger man beating a guy moving up in weight, so it's not like he's leapfrogging up to the number one spot. My opinion is that it's going to be hard to come up with a good ranking until the end of the year. Virtually everybody has had a long layoff because of the pandemic and a lot of the guys on that list or just off of it have fights coming up. I'll list them for fun:
In addition, Berchelt vs Valdez (December 12) and Davis vs Santa Cruz (October 31) could have P4P implications too. These fights range all over the map from extremely competitive to complete can crushes but nearly all of them have some significance, as a ring rust indicator if nothing else. After all of these, we'll probably have a better idea of where everybody on this list is looking. In particular, we're looking to see if Spence is still in his best form after his accident, if Usyk can hang at heavyweight and how much Golovkin really has left in the tank. Inoue and Crawford are both in fights against what are on paper somewhat serious opponents, but I can't really think of any reason they'd lose. An upset in either of those would change the list up. Estrada's fight against Cuadras The point being, there's a lot of questions that need to get answered before we can get a good grip on what the status of boxing is in a post pandemic world. I'm kind of expecting Pac and Beterbiev to fall off while Lopez and somebody else go on, perhaps Berchelt or LSC. Lopez is probably going to go smack in the middle there right around Spence, while Lomachneko gets dropped to a dubious 7th or something now. Inoue makes a good showing to clinch the #2 shot while Usyk and Crawford hope to look impressive in a bid for 3rd or fall off to a lower rank. Based on all that, I'm throwing together a provisionary list until these guys win some fights and move around. Lopez and Loma can go smack in the middle there and if the guys below them win their fights in an impressive way they'll hop up the list. Conversely, if the guys above them look bad, it might be worth dropping them below the new kid on the block. Anyway, here's my list at the moment:
Jump King fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2020 00:54
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Idk why Tyson Fury wouldn’t be on a P4P list. He’s an excellent boxer.
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Oct 20, 2020 01:46
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straight up brolic posted:Idk why Tyson Fury wouldn’t be on a P4P list. He’s an excellent boxer. IDK, that's fair, traditionally we don't see a lot of heavyweights on the list. I was mostly keying off of the Ring list, who don't have Fury listed. I think he could easily be on there, I sort of forgot about him beyond the cursory mention early on. He's likely to fight Agit Kabayel in what should be a showcase fight. There's lots of talk about Fury-Joshua in 2021, and I think the winner of that one gets on most people's list if they aren't already there. I could easily see myself doing something like swapping Golovkin for Fury soon. I think the whole list is in flux until the end of the year regardless.
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Oct 20, 2020 02:42
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straight up brolic posted:Idk why Tyson Fury wouldn’t be on a P4P list. He’s an excellent boxer. Heavyweights on P4P lists are always weird just because, at least to me, the idea of making a list which is based on 'who beats who if they could all magically be the same size' means you're by definition going to be weighing it in favor of lighter weight classes (really anything middleweight and below). Also so much of what heavyweight boxing is based on physical attributes that the idea of pound for pound attempts to imagine away, so to speak. For a heavyweight to be recognized pound for pound stalwart they usually have incredibly dominant over the division like Wlad from 2010-2015 and Tyson Fury is close but not quite there yet.
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Oct 20, 2020 02:44
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I don't really agree with heavyweights being on pound for pound lists, as the idea of "pound for pound" was popularized during Sugar Ray Robinson's career as a way of describing him as the best non-heavyweight boxer. Plus, if anything, heavyweights are the least skilled and rely on their size the most out of any other division. One of the main reasons that Tyson Fury is good is because he's the biggest good fighter in the division. As for pound for pound lists, I considered Lomachenko pound for pound #1 before he lost to Lopez, as Canelo has been on the positive end of too many decisions that could have gone either way, but with Lomachenko losing, and considering that Canelo moved up to light-heavyweight and knocked out an elite champ there, I would move him to my top spot now. I have Usyk on the list despite him being a heavyweight now due to his cruiserweight career as well as the fact that he is a small heavyweight by today's standards: 1. Canelo Alvarez 2. Terence Crawford 3. Naoya Inoue 4. Oleksandr Usyk 5. Teofimo Lopez 6. Vasyl Lomachenko 7. Errol Spence Jr. 8. Gennady Golovkin 9. Artur Beterbiev 10. Josh Taylor Cigar Aficionado fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Oct 20, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2020 03:18
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i would have inuoue at my #1 p4p just because i think inuoue looks more dominant than alvarez at his natural weight class and i prefer giving lighter fighters their props for p4p but it’s 1 and 1a for me
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Oct 20, 2020 16:00
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Jump King posted:
Ring Magazine has updated their P4P list and it's exactly this
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Oct 20, 2020 19:55
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reasonable; i think ggg will end up rising on the list if he doesn't look rusty (but he's also 38 so this might be the beginning of the end; i don't think he beats canelo if they end up fighting again) unrelated but here's a great clip of danny williams vs mark potter that i saw on reddit earlier today, if you haven't seen it i won't spoil it for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY1jzjTjIhY
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Oct 21, 2020 20:30
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war estrada
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Oct 24, 2020 04:04
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Jump King posted:war estrada I forgot this was happening and tuned in just in time to hear Todd Grisham signing off  At least I heard Gallo-Cuadras was good so i have the replay to look forward to
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Oct 24, 2020 04:55
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turns out lomachenko hosed up his shoulder in the lopez fight, aggravating a preexisting injury in the second round bummer that they didn’t include a rematch clause
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Oct 24, 2020 21:41
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I mean no one here is actually buying Tank - LSC right?
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Oct 30, 2020 00:15
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The SituAsian posted:I mean no one here is actually buying Tank - LSC right? i usually went to bars in the before times for the big ppv matches  it’ll either be really short (first five rounds) or it’ll go the distance and be crazy ugly, so it’s hard to imagine it’ll be worth it
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Oct 30, 2020 01:14
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The fight card tonight is really fun. In some ways I think it might be the best card of the weekend
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Oct 30, 2020 12:12
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Conlan-Dogboe is off due to injury https://twitter.com/mickconlan11/status/1322147345832824834?s=21
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Oct 30, 2020 13:07
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Huge loss for Americans who say they’re Irish
Jump King fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Oct 30, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 15:20
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Urbina got robbed
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Oct 31, 2020 02:22
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Jump King posted:Urbina got robbed She's kinda mouthy on Twitter so she deserved it  obviously I'm not serious Munguia already in a typically Munguia fight with Tureano
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Oct 31, 2020 04:07
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oh man who would guess that we'd have differing feelings on mouthy fighters
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Oct 31, 2020 04:16
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Jump King posted:oh man who would guess that we'd have differing feelings on mouthy fighters For me, it's only if they're female again, I'm only kidding 
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Oct 31, 2020 04:28
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The SituAsian posted:For me, it's only if they're female again, I'm only kidding This card kind of sucked
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Oct 31, 2020 04:32
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Disgusting cut,
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Oct 31, 2020 04:34
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