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I think part of the reason Xykon mentions Superb Dispelling here is because he's used it previously: when V did the Soul Splice he used Superb Dispelling to completely wreck their day. So it may be less "setting up a spell for a future big moment" and more "explaining why Xykon doesn't use his previously established epic dispel to clear Durkon and Minrah's buffs".
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Oct 20, 2020 17:46
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Also, nobody quite knows how Xykon’s astral fortress will come into play, since the phylactery isn’t actually there, but what if its role is entirely unrelated to that? It could be that the Fiends are aware of it and are gearing up there, or even that our mystery invisible kidnappers are there with the paladins right now. My guess is Xykon retreats there after getting a beat down and the order has to chase him down there before he recovers spells and comes back to nuke the gate from orbit. It sets up a final dungeon, pays off a lot hints dropped over the series, and provides for a big, final campaign ending battle.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:50
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Xykon isn't the main antagonist. Redcloak is. It's classic misdirection.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:52
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maltesh posted:Breaking the Phylactery doesn't kill Xykon, though. If Xykon's soul isn't currently in the phylactery, all breaking it does is destroy your bargaining chip. That's what I mean - if Xykon's body gets destroyed and he suddenly finds himself around Redcloak's neck then I don't think Redcloak has really any other options but to smash the thing because Xykon will go full warpath right after
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Oct 20, 2020 17:53
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I don't think the Astral Fortress will make any further apperances. It's only role in the story is to let Xykon mistakenly believe that is phylactery is safely beyond the ability of any other being to affect, setting up Redcloak to prove him wrong later.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:55
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SKULL.GIF posted:Right. Is there a hitherto-existing magical effect that requires that much of a boost to the roll to dispel? I can't think of anything and using it to switch off Durkon's Mass Death Ward seems too simple. Dispels are based on the caster's caster level, not the spell level. Dispelling a Grease is the same target to beat as a Shapechange cast by the same wizard. Using the +40 guarantees the dispel works against casters of the Order's level; Greater Dispel Magic does not.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:59
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Shugojin posted:That's what I mean - if Xykon's body gets destroyed and he suddenly finds himself around Redcloak's neck then I don't think Redcloak has really any other options but to smash the thing because Xykon will go full warpath right after Ah, my mistake. You're right there. And I guess that actually is a case for carrying the real phylactery around his neck -- if Xykon is down, Redcloak's probably also in bad shape, and if the Order is the one who did it, having the Phylactery exactly where they think it is increases their chances of keeping him down permanently.
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Oct 20, 2020 18:04
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Say, what do you guys think the secret Thor told Durkon about that his people forgot was? I don't recall it coming up yet
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Oct 20, 2020 19:09
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Say, what do you guys think the secret Thor told Durkon about that his people forgot was? I don't recall it coming up yet it was where to find mjolnir
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Oct 20, 2020 19:10
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Say, what do you guys think the secret Thor told Durkon about that his people forgot was? I don't recall it coming up yet That Loki sucks.
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Oct 20, 2020 19:11
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Say, what do you guys think the secret Thor told Durkon about that his people forgot was? I don't recall it coming up yet It was the location of the hidden hammer in #1154
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Oct 20, 2020 19:13
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:it was where to find mjolnir Pseudoscorpion posted:It was the location of the hidden hammer in #1154 Ooh, right, totally forgot about that. I assumed he meant something more broad by "your people" than just "the clerics of your temple"
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Oct 20, 2020 19:16
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If Redcloak does smash the phylactery with Xykon in it, does he get a stupefying amount of XP for destroying an epic lich?
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Oct 20, 2020 19:45
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Android Blues posted:I think part of the reason Xykon mentions Superb Dispelling here is because he's used it previously: when V did the Soul Splice he used Superb Dispelling to completely wreck their day. So it may be less "setting up a spell for a future big moment" and more "explaining why Xykon doesn't use his previously established epic dispel to clear Durkon and Minrah's buffs". Yeah, Rich does sometimes work in a “here’s why [character] doesn’t do [thing]”, presumably because he wants to pre-empt the 50 pages of grognardy forums discussion he’d otherwise have to endure. I know he claims not to care about such things, but I don’t really believe that when the name of his website is a story about how he once got really annoyed when people were being Wrong On The Internet.
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Oct 20, 2020 19:51
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I can buy that he cares a lot less now than he did in 2005 or whenever he set up the site.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:11
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DoctorTristan posted:Yeah, Rich does sometimes work in a “here’s why [character] doesn’t do [thing]”, presumably because he wants to pre-empt the 50 pages of grognardy forums discussion he’d otherwise have to endure. I thought it was the name of his publishing company? Do tell.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:59
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maltesh posted:Ah, my mistake. You're right there. And I guess that actually is a case for carrying the real phylactery around his neck -- if Xykon is down, Redcloak's probably also in bad shape, and if the Order is the one who did it, having the Phylactery exactly where they think it is increases their chances of keeping him down permanently. I didn't think Redcloak had it around his neck? When the original got thrown into the water, he equipped his backup symbol. Then he created a duplicate of the original, and gave it to Xykon. If he kept the original around his neck, Xykon would notice the ruse - he's supposed to be using his backup or have acquired a new one anyway.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:05
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NihilCredo posted:I didn't think Redcloak had it around his neck? When the original got thrown into the water, he equipped his backup symbol. Then he created a duplicate of the original, and gave it to Xykon. If he kept the original around his neck, Xykon would notice the ruse - he's supposed to be using his backup or have acquired a new one anyway. Checking the wiki, yeah, you're right. That said, Redcloak could have had the Phylactery done up to look like the backup holy symbol: if Xykon was fooled, he's probably not going to recheck. Does a Lich know if his phylactery has been destroyed? If not, and if Redcloak wasn't so big into sunk costs, destroying the phylactery in Gobbtopia while Xykon was off-plane might have been prudent.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:41
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maltesh posted:Checking the wiki, yeah, you're right. That said, Redcloak could have had the Phylactery done up to look like the backup holy symbol: if Xykon was fooled, he's probably not going to recheck. Monster manual says they feel a sense of dread if it's been destroyed, not necessarily knowledge
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Oct 20, 2020 21:50
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I thought it was the name of his publishing company? Do tell. The story used to be up on the website, but it seems he’s taken it down now. The gist of it was that he was reading the wizards.com forums and was so incensed at the sheer number of Bad Opinions on there that he had no choice but to register and set them to rights. Naturally he needed a username that would impress upon them just powerful his RPG knowledge was, so he chose that B5 quote to impress upon Wrong People that he was the Vorlons to their Centauri and they should fear him.
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Oct 20, 2020 22:47
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DoctorTristan posted:The story used to be up on the website, but it seems he’s taken it down now. The gist of it was that he was reading the wizards.com forums and was so incensed at the sheer number of Bad Opinions on there that he had no choice but to register and set them to rights. Naturally he needed a username that would impress upon them just powerful his RPG knowledge was, so he chose that B5 quote to impress upon Wrong People that he was the Vorlons to their Centauri and they should fear him. Ahahahahaha, what a nerd
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Oct 21, 2020 00:26
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Yeah but as far as origin stories go that kind of owns in an "lol this guy" kind of way.
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Oct 21, 2020 01:12
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DoctorTristan posted:The story used to be up on the website, but it seems he’s taken it down now. The gist of it was that he was reading the wizards.com forums and was so incensed at the sheer number of Bad Opinions on there that he had no choice but to register and set them to rights. Naturally he needed a username that would impress upon them just powerful his RPG knowledge was, so he chose that B5 quote to impress upon Wrong People that he was the Vorlons to their Centauri and they should fear him. that owns
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Oct 21, 2020 07:16
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it's also very thematic with B5 in an abstract way, as now his forum is the hive of the bad opinions and the show was way into that cyclical tides of history stuff
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Oct 21, 2020 07:44
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What happens to the phylactery if it's in range of the dispel?
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Oct 21, 2020 14:21
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A.o.D. posted:What happens to the phylactery if it's in range of the dispel? The phylactery itself can't be dispelled. All the wards and protections they've got layered on the thing, on the other hand, those could go.
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Oct 21, 2020 14:41
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jng2058 posted:The phylactery itself can't be dispelled. All the wards and protections they've got layered on the thing, on the other hand, those could go. Well yeah, but permanent magic items can be supressed temporarily.
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Oct 21, 2020 16:13
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Yeah, but it's not a magic item. It's a box with a soul. It'd be like trying to dispel a ghoul. It makes sense if you think about the D&D universe's metaphysics hard enough, but clearly not the same thing as the "magic" that spells are. God, imagine trying to be a philosopher in D&D. You'd be so loving sour about how stupidly things work. Edit: Throw out the eurypthro dilemma in a world with metaphysically real alignment as "Is it good because detect good finds it good, or does detect good find it good because it's good?"
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Oct 21, 2020 16:36
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Does Turn Undead have any effect on a phylactery?
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Oct 21, 2020 17:15
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ultrafilter posted:Does Turn Undead have any effect on a phylactery? Turn Undead doesn't do much of anything at all. It's a relic of when D&D was a miniatures war game, just a way to apply rout and retreat effects to zombies and ghouls. You'd think the ability to release a wave of pure divine will would do something, but... no one's really sure what divine will is. Can you eat it?
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Oct 21, 2020 17:49
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Planescape is specifically a setting about examining how stupid D&D metaphysics are, and the absurd philosophies that would arise trying to make sense of it all.
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Oct 21, 2020 17:50
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Kerning Chameleon posted:Planescape is specifically a setting about examining how stupid D&D metaphysics are, and the absurd philosophies that would arise trying to make sense of it all. Which is half of why Planescape is cool. The other half is because it integrates pretty well with Spelljammer, so you have fuckin' astral space pirates.
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Oct 21, 2020 17:59
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Mystic Mongol posted:You'd think the ability to release a wave of pure divine will would do something, but... no one's really sure what divine will is. Can you eat it? Create food is a divine spell, so yes.
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Oct 21, 2020 18:03
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Turn undead makes undead flee from the user, and if they're much weaker than the person using it, it also sometimes outright destroys them. A phylactery isn't undead though, it's effectively a soul in a jar, and it's not as though it can run away even if turning did work on it.
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Oct 21, 2020 18:11
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Doesn't turn undead not work on intelligent undead (e.g. vampires, liches)? Or am I misremembering.
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Oct 21, 2020 18:41
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Nah, they just get a bonus to their checks to resist turning. Arguably the iconic motif that inspired Turn Undead as an ability is a priest holding up a crucifix to ward off a vampire!
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Oct 21, 2020 18:47
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Is it no longer based on level vs. hit dice (or whatever the equivalent is now)?
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Oct 21, 2020 18:51
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It's a check based on the cleric/paladin's Charisma, level and Knowledge (Religion) ranks (complicated!) vs. hit dice, but liches and vampires and other like creatures get a bonus to their effective HD for the check.
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Oct 21, 2020 19:01
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There's a reason there are so many abilities to use Turn Attempts for things other than turning undead
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Oct 21, 2020 19:03
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Who What Now posted:There's a reason there are so many abilities to use Turn Attempts for things other than turning undead And why the whole thing got revamped into Channel Divinity in 5e. quote:At 2nd level, you gain the ability to channel divine energy directly from your deity, using that energy to fuel magical effects. You start with two such effects: Turn Undead and an effect determined by your domain. Some domains grant you additional effects as you advance in levels, as noted in the domain description.
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Oct 21, 2020 21:14
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