[UK] Knee Deep In The Inbred

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [UK] Knee Deep In The Inbred

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

V. Illych L. posted:

corbyn pressed 'like' and commented that he didn't want a homeowner or something to remove a mural which contained unflattering depictions of bankers, some of which were jews and unfortunately hook-nosed, in 2012

Theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

notably his concern seems to have been mainly that people are babies about political art in the mainstream, but it was a bad fight to pick in retrospect

the 'friend of antisemites' thing is a simple fabrication and has never been seriously backed up. dude was active in the palestine solidarity movement for years and years, which means that you'll sometimes share a stage with weirdos. unless one is specifically talking about ken livingston it just doesn't hold any water

the antisemitism thing really was a fabricated smear by people desperate to undermine corbyn's reputation as an honourable man by exploiting an ideological weak point in contemporary identitarian anti-racism. accepting this means accepting a lot of uncomfortable truths about the british press and society as well as said ideology, so most people just sort of shut down when confronted with it

I broadly agree with much of what you say and I am not going to re-open the debate about whether Corbyn is anti-semitic. I don't believe that he is personally but under Labour the party had a problem with AS that he was very slow to recognise and accept. Where we differ is that you think it was all a fabrication; I think that there was fire as well as smoke - and of course it was used and weaponised against him, but it was there. Every Jewish person I know believes this, most of whom are Labour supporters. Of course, unlike other ethnic minorities Jews cannot ascertain when they are being discriminated against, being sneaky and having ulterior motives and dual loyalties, so we can just disregard that. (I am not including JLV, which is a fringe in the Jewish community and by no means represents the broad consensus).

As for Corbyn, I think it is something like: I am anti-racist. Anyti-semitism is racism. Ergo I cannot be anti-semitic and nor can those with whom I sympathise. But in many cases they are (you mentioned Ken, for example). Hezbollah is a fine example: "My good friends Hezbollah"

quote:

Anti-Semitic statements have also been attributed to prominent figures in Hezbollah and to Hassan Nasrallah (Sec. Gen. of Hezbollah).

In a 1998 speech marking the Day of Ashura, and published in Hassan Nasrallah's official website[80][81][82] at that time, Nasrallah referred to Israel as "the state of the grandsons of apes and pigs � the Zionist Jews" and condemned them as "the murderers of the prophets."[83][84][85] MEMRI, CAMERA and Shaul Shai interpret this language as broadly antisemitic.[83][85][86]

According to the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Hassan Nasrallah, speaking at the Shi'ite Moslem "Ashura" flagellation ceremony on 9 April 2000, said:

The Jews invented the legend of the Nazi atrocities.... Anyone who reads the Koran and the holy writings of the monotheistic religions sees what they did to the prophets, and what acts of madness and slaughter the Jews carried out throughout history.... Anyone who reads these texts cannot think of co-existence with them, of peace with them, or about accepting their presence, not only in Palestine of 1948 but even in a small village in Palestine, because they are a cancer which is liable to spread again at any moment.[87]

According to Shaul Shai, Hassan Nasrallah said in a speech delivered in Beirut and aired on Al-Manar TV on 28 September 2001: "What do the Jews want? They want security and money. Throughout history the Jews have been Allah's most cowardly and avaricious creatures. If you look all over the world, you will find no one more miserly or greedy than they are."[79]
Badih Chayban in his 23 October 2002 article in The Daily Star, Nasrallah said that "if [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."[88] Charles Glass believes that the quotation was likely a fabrication, citing other published accounts of Nasrallah's speech that had no reference to the anti-Semitic comment, and statements by the editor-in-chief of the Lebanese newspaper which published the quotes, that questioned both the translation and the "agenda of the translator."[89] Glass also wrote that a Hezbollah spokeswoman, Wafa Hoteit, denied that Nasrallah made the statement.[89]
Saad-Ghorayeb quotes Hassan Nasrallah as saying, "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli."[90][91]
Saad-Ghorayeb quotes Hezbollah's Deputy-General Shaykh Na'im Qasim as saying, "The history of Jews has proven that, regardless of the Zionist proposal, they are a people who are evil in their ideas."[92]
Appearing on Al-Manar television, Hassan Nasrallah praised well known European Holocaust deniers David Irving and Roger Garaudy.[93]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_Hezbollah#Jews_and_Judaism[/quote]

Can you not see why a Jew might be a teesny-weensy bit uncomfortable with a man who calls Hezbollah his good friends?

namesake posted:

Liberals and centrist media outfits are watching Tories mishandle the pandemic and do hard Brexit and are having to think "Surely we had a good reason for thinking this was better". Rightwingers and Zionists can't ever allow Corbyns international solidarity social democracy to be thought of fondly.

They can't ever relent and it's going to drive them even more insane as he becomes less relevant to politics.

Despite my doubts about JC I never thought that the Tories were better in any sense, so that is not correct in my case. For all of his faults (and I believe that he has quite a few) I would far rather have JC in charge (with McDonnell, who I think is actually much sharper) that the sacks of shits in suits we have now.

Samovar posted:

Well, if they didn't, you might have folk thinking that the Tories policies are racist and that would be talking Britaine down!

Eh, everyone knows that the Tories are racist. Labour is meant to hold itself to a higher standard.

Communist Thoughts posted:

It's just that the UK can't have an anti-racist as PM for pretty obvious reasons. We as of yet haven't had to own up to our white supremacist empire and assorted atrocities and we are clinging to that privelege so that nothing in the establishment has to change and no reputations are tarnished.

But we can't outright say we don't want him because he's anti racist and anti racism is dangerous to the UK. So the oldest British trick is simply to say the opposite of the truth and everyone accepts it.
We couldn't abide Corbyn cause he was too racist.

I think that there is actually something here. A lot of people here will not accept that the UK is founded on racism and that the past of colonialism and Empire is shameful, and not something to be glorified and celebrated. An anti-racist politician is attacking people's identities.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 13:21

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# ? May 24, 2024 01:04

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

IRA-funded terrorist JEREMY CORBIN is a security risk because he has been blackmailed by the KGB with the proof of Corbin's affair with Hassan Nasrallah

# ? Oct 20, 2020 13:27

XMNN: Apr 26, 2008; I am incredibly stupid

if Corbyn had won in December, Jon lansmans momentum thugs would have been doing pogroms by January, that's just the way it is

# ? Oct 20, 2020 13:50

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

therattle posted:

I think that there is actually something here. A lot of people here will not accept that the UK is founded on racism and that the past of colonialism and Empire is shameful, and not something to be glorified and celebrated. An anti-racist politician is attacking people's identities.

you could see it with the recent stuff about getting rid of statues to slavemasters, racists and killers. basically every hero of the imperial project was one of the three since it was a racist, murderous project of global robbery.

so the argument had to be totally abstracted in order to be talked about on telly, it became about heritage and history and how much we can learn from statues. BLM were labelled "anti statue protesters" and the racists were "pro-statue protesters"

there was never any changing of the guard or reckoning so the whole state draws legitimacy from the imperial days and was involved in both the crimes and cover up

# ? Oct 20, 2020 13:59

The Lobotomy Kid: Aug 27, 2011; and act like a nut.

Everybody in the NEC wants to kiss Hitler a lot.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 14:01

The Lobotomy Kid: Aug 27, 2011; and act like a nut.

They're all in Prince Harry's DMs asking for his plans this Halloween.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 14:03

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Communist Thoughts posted:

you could see it with the recent stuff about getting rid of statues to slavemasters, racists and killers. basically every hero of the imperial project was one of the three since it was a racist, murderous project of global robbery.

so the argument had to be totally abstracted in order to be talked about on telly, it became about heritage and history and how much we can learn from statues. BLM were labelled "anti statue protesters" and the racists were "pro-statue protesters"

there was never any changing of the guard or reckoning so the whole state draws legitimacy from the imperial days and was involved in both the crimes and cover up

Yes, completely agree. How one could even argue with removing a statue of someone like Colston is beyond me. I can�t find it but there was a great Goodness Gracious Me sketch about an Indian woman reminiscing about the Raj. �And while they were raping me I couldn�t help but notice how marvellously shiny their boots were�

# ? Oct 20, 2020 14:15

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

hezbollah owns

# ? Oct 20, 2020 14:26

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

So, about those Brexit negotiations:

UK refuses to restart Brexit talks despite EU accepting its demands

Graun posted:

Downing Street has refused to restart Brexit deal negotiations despite Michael Gove performing a U-turn at the dispatch box in which he praised a “constructive move” by the EU minutes after declaring the talks “effectively ended”.

The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, seemingly agreed to all the government’s demands for the resumption of Brexit talks in pursuit of a deal – sending a tweet just as Gove was making a statement in the Commons castigating the bloc.

A No 10 spokesman said the prime minister had noted the EU’s offer to “intensify” the talks during a call between Barnier and his British counterpart on Monday but insisted there remained no basis yet to resume the negotiation.

Going great I see.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 14:32

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

talks to resume talks to figure out a deadline to enforce the results of a vote over 50 months ago

# ? Oct 20, 2020 14:44

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

the EU needs to stop being such cowards lol

they really want our innovative marmalades

# ? Oct 20, 2020 15:05

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

we're going to be the eu's sole local source for tim tams

# ? Oct 20, 2020 15:09

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

therattle posted:

I broadly agree with much of what you say and I am not going to re-open the debate about whether Corbyn is anti-semitic. I don't believe that he is personally but under Labour the party had a problem with AS that he was very slow to recognise and accept. Where we differ is that you think it was all a fabrication; I think that there was fire as well as smoke - and of course it was used and weaponised against him, but it was there. Every Jewish person I know believes this, most of whom are Labour supporters. Of course, unlike other ethnic minorities Jews cannot ascertain when they are being discriminated against, being sneaky and having ulterior motives and dual loyalties, so we can just disregard that. (I am not including JLV, which is a fringe in the Jewish community and by no means represents the broad consensus).

As for Corbyn, I think it is something like: I am anti-racist. Anyti-semitism is racism. Ergo I cannot be anti-semitic and nor can those with whom I sympathise. But in many cases they are (you mentioned Ken, for example). Hezbollah is a fine example: "My good friends Hezbollah"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_Hezbollah#Jews_and_Judaism

Can you not see why a Jew might be a teesny-weensy bit uncomfortable with a man who calls Hezbollah his good friends?

Despite my doubts about JC I never thought that the Tories were better in any sense, so that is not correct in my case. For all of his faults (and I believe that he has quite a few) I would far rather have JC in charge (with McDonnell, who I think is actually much sharper) that the sacks of shits in suits we have now.

Eh, everyone knows that the Tories are racist. Labour is meant to hold itself to a higher standard.

I think that there is actually something here. A lot of people here will not accept that the UK is founded on racism and that the past of colonialism and Empire is shameful, and not something to be glorified and celebrated. An anti-racist politician is attacking people's identities.
[/quote]

no you're doing the thing again where you're seeing a lot of smoke and assuming that it's because there's fire and not a bunch of people blowing smoke for the purposes of deception

sure labour's disciplinary processes weren't set up to deal with antisemitism. this is because they were set up to deal with left-wing infiltration. the purpose of labour's whole disciplinary wing was to undermine people like jeremy corbyn, which it did very effectively. this undermining was then used as an indictment of the corbynite project. there was never a serious investigation that showed any systemic antisemitism in the party relative to society at large, there was never any actual indications that antisemitism was a real problem other than some heavily machined testimonies and inevitable individual incidents. it was all bullshit.

also hezbollah is objectively less objectionable than the security state rat's nest or the loving IDF that everyone's fawning over. there's an official group called labour friends of israel where actual apartheid supporters openly organise within the party. the new leader is openly a part of one of the cold war anticommunist front networks and had no objections to literally legalising crime!

# ? Oct 20, 2020 15:28

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Love to see someone bringing up Labour antisemitism. Rules.

Dumb lib being horny for Goebbels, whatever. But that dumb lib getting mad at RLB for sharing a harmless newspaper article then she rightly gets roasted for this poo poo.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 15:34

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Sidenote tho, absolutely do not trust anyone horny for Gobbels. Dude has loving murderer eyes.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 15:43

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

V. Illych L. posted:

no you're doing the thing again where you're seeing a lot of smoke and assuming that it's because there's fire and not a bunch of people blowing smoke for the purposes of deception

sure labour's disciplinary processes weren't set up to deal with antisemitism. this is because they were set up to deal with left-wing infiltration. the purpose of labour's whole disciplinary wing was to undermine people like jeremy corbyn, which it did very effectively. this undermining was then used as an indictment of the corbynite project. there was never a serious investigation that showed any systemic antisemitism in the party relative to society at large, there was never any actual indications that antisemitism was a real problem other than some heavily machined testimonies and inevitable individual incidents. it was all bullshit.

also hezbollah is objectively less objectionable than the security state rat's nest or the loving IDF that everyone's fawning over. there's an official group called labour friends of israel where actual apartheid supporters openly organise within the party. the new leader is openly a part of one of the cold war anticommunist front networks and had no objections to literally legalising crime!

I disagree with you on that, but there's no point in arguing it.

I don't know how you objectively ascertain which party is worst between the IDF and Hezbollah - or how relevant it is to my (and others') concerns about Hezbollah as an anti-semitic group being described by JC as his friends. Because the IDF is bad Hezbollah's antisemitism (and Corbyn's implicit endorsement of it) gets a free pass?

# ? Oct 20, 2020 16:27

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

therattle posted:

I disagree with you on that, but there's no point in arguing it.

I don't know how you objectively ascertain which party is worst between the IDF and Hezbollah - or how relevant it is to my (and others') concerns about Hezbollah as an anti-semitic group being described by JC as his friends. Because the IDF is bad Hezbollah's antisemitism (and Corbyn's implicit endorsement of it) gets a free pass?

This is some hardcore bad faith lib bullshit right here

# ? Oct 20, 2020 16:37

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

lol corbyn's literal whole thing in international relations has consistently been to push dialogue over confrontation, you don't do dialogue by insulting people. he said 'we welcome our friends in hezbollah' at a meeting to try and push parliaemntary dialogue with hezbollah.

my point with contrasting them with the IDF is that talking to odious groups - even supporting them outright - is seen as entirely unproblematic when the guy doing it isn't a threat to the security state, or when the security state prefers a certain allegiance. it's *at best* a naked double standard

# ? Oct 20, 2020 16:50

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Just lol at being "uncomfortable" over ties to Hezbollah

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:08

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Terribly concerned that Jezza would have given the UK's nuclear weapons to Hezbollah had he been elected.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:19

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

V. Illych L. posted:

lol corbyn's literal whole thing in international relations has consistently been to push dialogue over confrontation, you don't do dialogue by insulting people. he said 'we welcome our friends in hezbollah' at a meeting to try and push parliaemntary dialogue with hezbollah.

my point with contrasting them with the IDF is that talking to odious groups - even supporting them outright - is seen as entirely unproblematic when the guy doing it isn't a threat to the security state, or when the security state prefers a certain allegiance. it's *at best* a naked double standard

As you say, lol. So that is why Corbyn refers to Israel as an apartheid state, and when appearing on Press TV* (channel of noted human rights champions Iran), accused Israel of being behind an attack on Egyptian policemen, etc! So that he can promote dialogue with Israel by not insulting it. Right.

Unsurprisingly, odious groups with which one is aligned are seen as less problematic than those to which one is opposed. But yes, that does lead to double standards. Which you are guilty of too, when it comes to Hezbollah, Hamas etc.

* That in itself is a pretty big red flag, no?

Barry Foster posted:

This is some hardcore bad faith lib bullshit right here

Different opinion =/= bad faith.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Just lol at being "uncomfortable" over ties to Hezbollah

I know, aren't groups that want to kill you for your ethnicity and promote hatred against you just hilarious!

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:24

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

therattle posted:

I know, aren't groups that want to kill you for your ethnicity and promote hatred against you just hilarious!

Yes this is why I support Hezbollah and aren't friends with any Zionists

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:27

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

it is very funny indeed when people get upset about people appearing on pressTV or RTV or whatever when we have the BBC, a state propaganda institution run by a human rights violating regime that has done considerably more harm to the world than fuckin ...iran lol

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:27

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

therattle posted:

I disagree with you on that, but there's no point in arguing it.

I don't know how you objectively ascertain which party is worst between the IDF and Hezbollah - or how relevant it is to my (and others') concerns about Hezbollah as an anti-semitic group being described by JC as his friends. Because the IDF is bad Hezbollah's antisemitism (and Corbyn's implicit endorsement of it) gets a free pass?

this is stupid as gently caress lol

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:32

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

therattle posted:

I know, aren't groups that want to kill you for your ethnicity and promote hatred against you just hilarious!

Oh yeah, that's why Likud are international pariahs

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:32

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Communist Thoughts posted:

it is very funny indeed when people get upset about people appearing on pressTV or RTV or whatever when we have the BBC, a state propaganda institution run by a human rights violating regime that has done considerably more harm to the world than fuckin ...iran lol

And Jeremey Corbin knew all this and still appeared in BBC presentations!

Disgusting Jeremy Corbin has friends in noted pedophile defending news organization, the BBC.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:33

The Lobotomy Kid: Aug 27, 2011; and act like a nut.

Jeremy Corbyn and the tattoo guy from that Sky History show were in a skinhead speedmetal band in the 80s but I can't post the name here.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:38

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

Germany Corbin has been a member of an organisation known to protect paedophiles for 37 years

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:48

Wraith of J.O.I.: Jan 25, 2012

remember in 2019 when the tories unveiled a statue celebrating a nazi sympathizer while they were doing their smear campaign against corbyn in the run up to the election?

# ? Oct 20, 2020 17:59

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

lol wow

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/spice-girls-vote-thatcher-the-new-leader-of-their-band-1314278.html

# ? Oct 20, 2020 18:14

Party Boat: Nov 1, 2007; where did that other dog come from

who is he

Maximo Roboto posted:

lol wow

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/spice-girls-vote-thatcher-the-new-leader-of-their-band-1314278.html

# ? Oct 20, 2020 18:21

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Maximo Roboto posted:

lol wow

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/spice-girls-vote-thatcher-the-new-leader-of-their-band-1314278.html

gently caress. I'm burning all of my SG memorabilia, clothing and records.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 18:23

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

90s Cringe Rock posted:

we're going to be the eu's sole local source for tim tams

the eu deeply interested in "adequate" food

# ? Oct 20, 2020 18:28

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

baby spice was the full on gammon right

# ? Oct 20, 2020 18:48

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

Incredibly funny that the british government is hoping to trade on the sterling reputation of its cuisine.

# ? Oct 20, 2020 18:49

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

therattle posted:

As you say, lol. So that is why Corbyn refers to Israel as an apartheid state, and when appearing on Press TV* (channel of noted human rights champions Iran), accused Israel of being behind an attack on Egyptian policemen, etc! So that he can promote dialogue with Israel by not insulting it. Right.

Unsurprisingly, odious groups with which one is aligned are seen as less problematic than those to which one is opposed. But yes, that does lead to double standards. Which you are guilty of too, when it comes to Hezbollah, Hamas etc.

* That in itself is a pretty big red flag, no?

Different opinion =/= bad faith.

I know, aren't groups that want to kill you for your ethnicity and promote hatred against you just hilarious!

corbyn probably called israel an apartheid state because that's what they are. noted knowers of apartheid such as desmond tutu has made the same claims.

the weird inverse deplatforming people try to pull to discredit people who have a hard time getting air time on mainstream platforms is simply pathetic. if you're a politician you want to get your views out there. taking money from foreign news sources was a mistake, but much milder than what basically all MPs do.

also demonstrate the double standard please

# ? Oct 20, 2020 19:02

Jarf: Jun 25, 2006; PLATINUM

Nonsense posted:

baby spice was the full on gammon right

Lol at the idea of the lesser known spice girl "gammon spice"

# ? Oct 20, 2020 19:31

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Jarf posted:

Lol at the idea of the lesser known spice girl "gammon spice"

salt?

# ? Oct 20, 2020 19:32

Jarf: Jun 25, 2006; PLATINUM

V. Illych L. posted:

salt?

Hahaha! Margaret Thatcher in a tube top, miniskirt and stilletos awkwardly posing next to the other spice girls.

"My girlfriends call me Salt" :wink:

# ? Oct 20, 2020 19:35

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# ? May 24, 2024 01:04

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

V. Illych L. posted:

corbyn probably called israel an apartheid state because that's what they are. noted knowers of apartheid such as desmond tutu has made the same claims.

the weird inverse deplatforming people try to pull to discredit people who have a hard time getting air time on mainstream platforms is simply pathetic. if you're a politician you want to get your views out there. taking money from foreign news sources was a mistake, but much milder than what basically all MPs do.

also demonstrate the double standard please

I thought you'd been more overtly supportive of Hezbollah than you actually had been, so the double standard does not apply to you. You're right, I made a mistake. Other posters were being more openly supportive. (I am sure that they are all staunch anti-racists).

You said that Corbyn referred to Hezbollah etc as his friends because he wanted to promote dialogue, therefore he would not be insulting. Dialogue involves two parties or more, so the same should apply to his comments about Israel. They clearly don't (the apartheid references etc), so the excuse that he used that language to further dialogue does not really add up. I believe that he called them his friends because he is sympathetic to their cause and is prepared to overlook the very real problems with their ideology and practices. As a Jew that does not endear him to me.

Anyway, feel free to respond if you want the last word but neither of us is going to persuade the other, so I am ducking out of this particular discussion, and going to the bathroom for some quiet time contemplating Thatcher in a tube top and stilettos.

therattle has issued a correction as of 19:53 on Oct 20, 2020

# ? Oct 20, 2020 19:50

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