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Sekenr posted:Can somebody explain to me why in the name of gently caress does EU shutting down nuclear power stations? How is this win for anyone? What is it to be proud of? They produce 0 carbon emissions, how is this helping anybody? Coal burning plants function as normal how is this even a slightest move towards better future It's mostly Germany+Austria yelling at anyone who even considers putting the n-word in their energy strategy and launching court challenges against nuclear projects which have no hope of going anywhere but make the government look good in the national press. France+Poland+assorted other countries that would like to have some reactors bitch right back at them. The main EU level result of this bickering is that nuclear doesn't get subsidised through EU clean energy funds so nuclear friendly governments have to individually provide subsidies and can't just handwave it away as "who cares it's free EU money". Premature nuclear reactor shutdowns are national level issues so feel free to tell Germany specifically to get hosed we deserve it.
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Oct 24, 2020 23:26
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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| # ? May 31, 2024 00:18 |
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Get hosed Germany
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Oct 25, 2020 09:10
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Fun fact: people bitching about nuclear out of misguided environmental concerns is precisely why Euratom is the one European Community that hasn't been fully folded in the EU so as to not be subject to the European Parliament.
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Oct 25, 2020 09:10
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Honestly, you have to somewhat sympathize with the German position on nuclear energy. It did not originate from 'science bad', but from two other sources: first, the opposition to the nuclear arms race and industries that might facilitate it. Second, a deep-seated distrust of the state and its institutions. This stems from the learned experience that the state and its institutions will not protect or inform its citizens. Imperial Germany, the Weimar republic, The Third Reich, and the German Democratic Republic all sold out their citizens rather than fixing economical, health, political, or other public crises, to the point of bringing half the planet to the brink of annihilation. If the state has to choose between protecting an institution or an industry vs. protecting individuals, it will without fail always pick the institution. More on topic, Germany's own track record with the nuclear industry was less than stellar in the best of times, what with nuclear arms sitting on American bases essentially unguarded, and totally-safe-and-controlled-only-for-nonprofit-research site Asse turning into an unmitigated financial and environmental disaster - without even profit as an excuse since it was a public enterprise. It does not help that in Chernobyl, the unthinkable accident did actually happen, and when it did, the responsible states all acted exactly in a way that confirmed the existing distrust. Nuclear energy is poisoned in Germany because while as a technology it is absolutely elegant and can be made safe, no one trusts the regulators and companies to not poo poo the bed and cause catastrophe through indifference at best and corruption at worst. This distrust is learned and confirmed repeatedly over the generations and frankly I'm surprised that it's only Germany that has it. That all set aside, when Germany decided to leave nuclear power behind, they shouldn't have put the load on coal. Since they were doing a dramatic policy change anyway, they might as well have gone one step further and started a massive transition from nuclear to renewable. Now that enormous momentum is lost, and they'll be rolling coal for years until they're weaned off it.
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Oct 25, 2020 11:04
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so the germans, while perfectly happy to let state agencies see every communication made online and corporations govern every aspect of their lives, think that nuclear energy is inherently totalitarian
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Oct 25, 2020 11:31
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^^ I don't think anybody is arguing that it's coherent.
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Oct 25, 2020 11:43
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V. Illych L. posted:so the germans, while perfectly happy to let state agencies see every communication made online and corporations govern every aspect of their lives, think that nuclear energy is inherently totalitarian I.. what? the germans are some of the most privacy-aware people I've ever met
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Oct 25, 2020 12:12
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To me, it feels like there are some weird blind spots in the culture for that, like having your packages handed over to random neighbors if you're not home, or everyone's last names being on the front of their apartment building.
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Oct 25, 2020 12:28
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Cicero posted:To me, it feels like there are some weird blind spots in the culture for that, like having your packages handed over to random neighbors if you're not home, or everyone's last names being on the front of their apartment building. That's called having trust. I can't even imagine living in a place where your neighbors are such huge assholes you wouldn't be able to trust them with your packages. Also,  no last names on your building? How the gently caress functions the mail system in your country? Are your mail men supposed to find the right address by telepathy? 
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Oct 25, 2020 12:43
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Libluini posted:That's called having trust. I can't even imagine living in a place where your neighbors are such huge assholes you wouldn't be able to trust them with your packages. I think one uses numbers, in general.
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Oct 25, 2020 12:44
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BabyFur Denny posted:I think one uses numbers, in general. House numbers? That wouldn't work with more than one family per building.
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Oct 25, 2020 12:49
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Why wouldn't you trust a neighbour with a package? Like...wha?
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Oct 25, 2020 12:52
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Libluini posted:House numbers? That wouldn't work with more than one family per building. You know, those doors seperating one family from another? Or do german apartment buildings have everyone live in one giant room.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:08
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Lord Stimperor posted:Honestly, you have to somewhat sympathize with the German position on nuclear energy. I don't. See, Germany did not have a nuclear waste treatment plant. (Plans to make one were canned in 1979.) So they sent them to France for reprocessing, but the deal is that while France would condition the waste for long-term storage, it would not keep them. So there were trains bringing nuclear waste from Germany to France, and then trains bringing back processed German waste from France to Germany. Guess which trains the German Greenpeace activists were blocking.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:18
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Nothingtoseehere posted:You know, those doors seperating one family from another? Or do german apartment buildings have everyone live in one giant room. You're talking about apartment numbers, right? I just remembered that there some weird places where families have to add an additional number to their address, because their house is some sort of super-confusing mess. Funnily enough, over here people then still add their last name just to make sure the mail can find them.  Extrapolating from that, I assume you guys live in some odd, alien place where people hate each other so much they remove the names and just leave the numbers on? How do you interact with people in other countries, with less SkyNet-like mail systems? Are you just thinking how weird it is that this dude on eBay you sold something to puts his full name to his address? Are there cases where people from your part of the world forget not everyone is living on a machine planet and they just forget to add a name when sending mail to a real human country? Getting your nose thumped with how strange other cultures can be is fascinating, though. Didn't expect something as universal as mail could be so different! I have send and received mail from multiple different countries over the years and never saw anything different from how we do things.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:19
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Libluini posted:You're talking about apartment numbers, right? I just remembered that there some weird places where families have to add an additional number to their address, because their house is some sort of super-confusing mess. Funnily enough, over here people then still add their last name just to make sure the mail can find them. Sure, names go on post. But it's to indicate which member of a household a letter/parcel is for, not to help find the household in the first place. There's no master list of names of people in a block of flats others can refer to, and post is directed by number not by name. You'll only know your neigbours names if you actually try and talk to them. In single person households putting a name on the delivery is just vestigial, like billing addresses for online purchases. It's not actually required or useful but done out of habit.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:23
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An insane mind posted:Why wouldn't you trust a neighbour with a package? Like...wha? Italian here, I would not trust anyone outside the building's doorman/custodian.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:41
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Sure, names go on post. But it's to indicate which member of a household a letter/parcel is for, not to help find the household in the first place. There's no master list of names of people in a block of flats others can refer to, and post is directed by number not by name. You'll only know your neighbors names if you actually try and talk to them. In single person households putting a name on the delivery is just vestigial, like billing addresses for online purchases. It's not actually required or useful but done out of habit. That's an interesting view into an alien culture! If you leave your names off over here, there's a near 100% chance your mail will disappear into some kind of postal limbo and arrive back at the starting point after a couple weeks. Regardless of how many numbers you put on there. (Hell, if you leave off your own name, your package is basically gone for good. Hopefully you invested in some tracking, because then the carrier can at least send your package back home eventually!)
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Oct 25, 2020 13:43
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An insane mind posted:Why wouldn't you trust a neighbour with a package? Like...wha? A delivery guy called to let me know he dropped off my package in front of my apartments door while I was at work. I don't know how he got past our building's door, but I just hoped to find my package when I got home several hours later. Of course, the 100 euro amount of stuff that I had ordered was not there when I got back. Few moments later our next door neighbor told me he had taken in the box just in case. We don't get along along, but they're nice enough and I'm happy that he took the initiative to do what he had done.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:48
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100YrsofAttitude posted:A delivery guy called to let me know he dropped off my package in front of my apartments door while I was at work. I don't know how he got past our building's door, but I just hoped to find my package when I got home several hours later. Similar thing happened to me, except it was the neighbor who insisted that they've never seen the package and the delivery company telling me someone like them took it. I did get a free replacement from Amazon to be fair.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:58
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I don't think I have even seen my neighbors at my current apartment let alone know them, why would I want someone to leave my packages to them
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Oct 25, 2020 14:00
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Lord Stimperor posted:
This is how the energy mix in Germany has developed over the last two decades (renewables made up about 40 percent of power generation in 2019, from less than 10 % in 2000, coal has gone from 60 to 35 % in the same time-frame and is planned to be faded out completely until 2038):
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Oct 25, 2020 14:03
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Libluini posted:That's an interesting view into an alien culture! In the UK, all you need to get stuff delivered is a postcode and a house/flat number, and it would probably get to the right address. The other info is useful, but not absolutely required, although you have an increased chance of the postie deliving to the wrong address by mistake. Also yea I'd trust my neighbours to hold a parcel but not leave it out.
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Oct 25, 2020 14:06
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goethe42 posted:This is how the energy mix in Germany has developed over the last two decades (renewables made up about 40 percent of power generation in 2019, from less than 10 % in 2000, coal has gone from 60 to 35 % in the same time-frame and is planned to be faded out completely until 2038): this hardly paints the entire picture though, because 1. electricity got real expensive real quick once renewables started to become a significant percentage of the power grid, because now germany has to buy power from their neighbours (mostly france) when they're short, and at times has to pay their neighbours to take their power when wind/solar outputs are too high because you can't really control sun/wind all that well. obviously expensive electricity isn't a problem in itself, getting rid of fossil fuels is extremely urgent for survival of civilization, but 2. due to electricity being expensive, some private properties (especially heavy power hungry industries, but sometimes smaller stuff too), have started installing their own natgas because they're cheaper than grid electricity   also as an aside, there's been a recent study into natgas, and replacing coal with natgas is worse for GHG emissions unless you intend to run said natgas power for more than 20 years. we need to be off of fossil fuels almost completely in about 10 lmao e:  study says leakage is somewhere between 3.6 and 7% so if you take the best case scenario it's 20 years lol Andrast posted:I don't think I have even seen my neighbors at my current apartment let alone know them, why would I want someone to leave my packages to them classic capitalist alienation Truga fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 14:19
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An insane mind posted:Why wouldn't you trust a neighbour with a package? Like...wha? Sure obviously it mostly works, it just seems like a weird presumption that leaving packages for people with random unverified others in their area is universally acceptable. Cicero fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 14:20
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Truga posted:classic capitalist alienation I think it's just me being Finnish
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Oct 25, 2020 14:26
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Libluini posted:
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Oct 25, 2020 14:29
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Andrast posted:I think it's just me being Finnish yeah that's fair
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Oct 25, 2020 14:33
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Libluini posted:Also, Are you really this ignorant, or so dense to imagine how it could work otherwise? Many countries (in the EU as well) do not use names in doorbells. We use floor numbers, eg. in Portugal we would have something like street + number + floor + additional letter (for multiple people in the same floor). It is not complicated at all, no need to have names plastered anywhere. Edit: beaten. Also, I wonder how many countries use the names on doorbells thing. Austria + Germany? AndreTheGiantBoned fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 14:34
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I'm sorry, I guess I'm just naive and trust easily. When the postman has a package for a neighbour that's not home I always take it into my care and pop by later that day to hand it over. And I easily accept that others would do the same 
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Oct 25, 2020 14:36
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Truga posted:this hardly paints the entire picture though, because
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Oct 25, 2020 14:36
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Libluini posted:That's called having trust. I can't even imagine living in a place where your neighbors are such huge assholes you wouldn't be able to trust them with your packages. Libluini posted:House numbers? That wouldn't work with more than one family per building. Libluini posted:You're talking about apartment numbers, right? I just remembered that there some weird places where families have to add an additional number to their address, because their house is some sort of super-confusing mess. Funnily enough, over here people then still add their last name just to make sure the mail can find them. Libluini posted:That's an interesting view into an alien culture! rofl
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Oct 25, 2020 14:39
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goethe42 posted:I was just fact-checking the goon myth that Germany is replacing nuclear with coal, I'm not saying there aren't any flaws in the plan. yeah to be clear, germany is head and shoulders above probably everyone in EU except maybe france/austria with their giant nukular/hydro sectors? the joke is, it's still not enough lmao AndreTheGiantBoned posted:Also, I wonder how many countries use the names on doorbells thing. Austria + Germany? it's pretty ubiquitous on the balkans in my experience, also i know for a fact japan has names on houses/bells
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Oct 25, 2020 14:43
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Libluini posted:House numbers? That wouldn't work with more than one family per building. It's like Americans who are all "making cars optional in a society? Okay fine for single people, but what about anyone with kids  "
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Oct 25, 2020 15:03
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This address derail is fascinating, it's like a discussion I'd have with my mother when she feels especially Boomer
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Oct 25, 2020 15:29
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I'm told the Germans are a hivelike people, the only things they do alone are go to the toilet and commit suicide. (and sometimes not even that)
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Oct 25, 2020 15:35
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Truga posted:yeah to be clear, germany is head and shoulders above probably everyone in EU except maybe france/austria with their giant nukular/hydro sectors? the joke is, it's still not enough lmao  or are we talking about different things?
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Oct 25, 2020 15:40
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Lord Stimperor posted:Honestly, you have to somewhat sympathize with the German position on nuclear energy. It did not originate from 'science bad', but from two other sources: first, the opposition to the nuclear arms race and industries that might facilitate it. Second, a deep-seated distrust of the state and its institutions. Yeah ok but nobody* cares about mismanagement and scandals in other industries than nuclear enough to want to do anything about it even when those industries kill more people than nuclear, see eg Volkswagen. On top of that even after the civilian nuclear exit nobody* is telling the Muricans to station their bombs somewhere else (the majority of the population kind of wants the things to go away but not enough to affect voting behaviour or get them out on the street). *except about half a dozen of the most hardcore greens and commies suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 16:55
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Did they make up for a lot the last two years? on paper enough to technically meet the stated goals but that's just because a bunch of energy demand (probably only temporarily) shut down due to covid so now we get to pretend we made sudden progress
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Oct 25, 2020 17:00
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orange sky posted:I.. what? the germans are some of the most privacy-aware people I've ever met yeah but most of the really strict data protection rules we used to have got weakened into oblivion so now Germany has data protection on the same level as the rest of the EU because the GDPR sets limits on how low we can go
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Oct 25, 2020 17:02
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