|
Brawnfire posted:My thought is that it's supposed to be like ahhh haha they get energy tortured for fun in the mirror universe but... What if it's not the same thing? Like it could have been a beam that replicates acid under your skin she doesn't loving know More to the point, unless I missed something, Georgiou didn't see the weapon fire beforehand. Saru and Tilly saw it, but not her. So she just stood in front of a crazy future beam weapon with no idea what it did and let herself be shot. teamcharlie fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Oct 25, 2020 |
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 22:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 08:30 |
|
|
Ensign Rutherford's voice actor Eugene Cordero was a panelist on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me this weekend and the guest was Doug Jones which was pretty good and fun
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 22:23
|
|
|
teamcharlie posted:For once I'm gonna try to ask this charitably rather than accuse the show of something: Would have been a bold writing choice to just have the bad guy of the week vaporise her cocky rear end.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 22:28
|
|
|
Pastamania posted:If that's my post your referring to, uh, no? There's nothing wrong with Trek doing westerns at all, but there's a lot more to the genre than just an outlaw and a good guy having a shootout in a saloon at sundown. All we needed was a bit where Seru got shot in the chest but it turned out he got shot in a whiskey flask in his pocket and we've completed the cliche set. Yeah, it's a Western episode but it wasn't a good Western episode. The alternative way of doing that concept (later in the season running order after the crew have been reintroduced:): Start the show in the bar, but there's more people and the colony is a place where people pass through on the way to places actually worth going to. The Bad Guy shows up and does his intimidation schtick. Tilly and... Doctor dude are seen in the corner of the room in plainclothes. They don't interfere. Bad guy intimates that the barkeep is hiding something from him, barkeep denies but accidentally lets on that something's changed. As the episode progresses more and more Discovery crewmen quietly enter the scene in plainclothes while the tension builds up between bad guy and barkeep, until guns get drawn and we reach the finale we saw. I get why you can't do it in a 10 episode season, but a story which is just about the relationship between those two people in the future and the Discovery crew are watching it with us until they reach the point where they decide to intervene would have been great.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 22:51
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Yeah, it's a Western episode but it wasn't a good Western episode. That'd be very tough to sell to the writers/producers/etc.  "For the first 90% of the episode, the main characters all sit there doing nothing and don't say a word while a couple of guest stars have a big long conversation about their own stuff. Then at the end, our heroes stand up and let their phasers do the talking, and boom, happy ending, roll credits!" "...you DO realize that we have to pay the main cast whether we use them or not, right?"The realities of TV mean that at least one or two of the people with their names in the opening credits will have major parts to play in any episode, even ones where the plot isn't even specifically "about" them. When overdone, this can end up like  where Starbuck and/or Apollo (allegedly just fighter jocks) ended up doing everything from hostage negotiation to event security to prisoner interrogation, even though it would have made more sense to bring in some guest star to play a specialist in these things. But when you have main cast, there's big pressure to use 'em.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 23:15
|
|
|
That made me wonder what (US) TV show had the smallest main (ie, splashed across the opening credits) cast, then I realised - for the first season, Star Trek itself was right there. Shatner, Nimoy, and that was it! Edit: my favourite case of "they get an opening titles credit, so we have to pay them full whack" that the actor must have loved was in the last X Files season: in 'The Lost Art of Forehead Sweat', Skinner gets one line, but is still credited up-front. (But drat, what a line!) Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Oct 25, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2020 23:47
|
|
|
Payndz posted:Edit: my favourite case of "they get an opening titles credit, so we have to pay them full whack" that the actor must have loved Babylon 5 has to be up there on this; especially in the third and fourth seasons several actors were missing for multiple episodes at a time. Andreas Katsulas disappeared for like five episodes straight in season 3, I think, which allowed him to skip a few weeks of eight hours a day in the makeup chair.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 00:14
|
|
|
Payndz posted:That made me wonder what (US) TV show had the smallest main (ie, splashed across the opening credits) cast, then I realised - for the first season, Star Trek itself was right there. Shatner, Nimoy, and that was it! That is something people often forget about Star Trek - it was really the Shatner - Nimoy - Kelly trio at core and it worked. The reason you always think you saw more of the other characters than you did is because they were solid, consistent characters who had actual jobs to do when the scene was on the ship and so naturally flowed into any scene where they were relevant.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 00:16
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:That is something people often forget about Star Trek - it was really the Shatner - Nimoy - Kelly trio at core and it worked. Worked so well that they literally repeated the "Captain, a Vulcan and a Southerner" trio for Enterprise.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 00:32
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:What on Earth are you talking about? Things are only “last minute” if there’s a deadline. Disco has already been greenlit for a fourth season, so even if the show ends there this could be the direction for half the series. The first season arc was resolved by putting a nuke in the center of a planet then handing the controls to a member of the cult that started the war in the first place so she could take over, how is that anything close to "24-style hard choices morality was wrong" also that plan came from Space Hitler Season 2 was also resolved by Space Hitler killing Leland this most recent episode was solved by Space Hitler showing up and shooting the bad guys because the federation nerds were too idealistic and got themselves captured.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 00:40
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:That is something people often forget about Star Trek - it was really the Shatner - Nimoy - Kelly trio at core and it worked. The reason you always think you saw more of the other characters than you did is because they were solid, consistent characters who had actual jobs to do when the scene was on the ship and so naturally flowed into any scene where they were relevant. Charm was more important to TOS supporting cast than consistency. Timby posted:Worked so well that they literally repeated the "Captain, a Vulcan and a Southerner" trio for Enterprise. reverse case, ENT crew are consistent as gently caress but utterly charmless.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 00:42
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:this most recent episode was solved by Space Hitler showing up and shooting the bad guys because the federation nerds were too idealistic and got themselves captured. This is pretty disingenuous. Yeah, Georgiou shows up and starts fighting back, but that allows for Saru and Tilly to join in and take everyone down. And Saru rightfully put Georgiou in her place for wanting to kill Zareh. The entire point of the Saru/Georgiou argument was to have a microcosm of the main conflict of that episode, and what I’m guessing is the season - how Starfleet ideals can stand against cruelty.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 01:19
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:Season 2 What are you talking about??? this is the first season. It's a good premise; unknown starfleet ship gets flung 1000 years in the future. let's see how this pans out even season 1 of TNG was bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 01:35
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:The first season arc was resolved by putting a nuke in the center of a planet then handing the controls to a member of the cult that started the war in the first place so she could take over, how is that anything close to "24-style hard choices morality was wrong" also that plan came from Space Hitler In the first season high levels of Starfleet ran with a plan Space Hitler proposed to annihilate the Klingon home world with a bomb in it's core and when the main characters find out their immediate reaction is absolutely not, they then unconditionally hand over the trigger to a Klingon they know and hope is reasonable. With no threats, no demands and no leverage, they ask her to do something that would be the best for both sides. They openly make a decision that they won't do the wrong thing, even if the cost is the Federation
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 01:57
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:This is pretty disingenuous. Yeah, Georgiou shows up and starts fighting back, but that allows for Saru and Tilly to join in and take everyone down. And Saru rightfully put Georgiou in her place for wanting to kill Zareh. The entire point of the Saru/Georgiou argument was to have a microcosm of the main conflict of that episode, and what I’m guessing is the season - how Starfleet ideals can stand against cruelty. And Saru's actions in the fight basically show he could probably have dealt with the problem through violence from moment one had he decided to do so. I mean, Zareh didn't seem to know Kelpiens can shoot spines out of their ears at you, and Saru's apparently strong enough to break bones with a casual twist of his hand. (I feel like they should at least define what those spines do, though. I assume it's meant to be a mild paralytic for hunting prey, but I think in the Kelpien homeworld ep they were implied to basically be crossbow bolts)
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 01:58
|
|
|
I happened to look at my post history on this thread and saw my first post from when this thread was new. January 2020:Powered Descent posted:I know what you mean, but this made me think of Michelle Yeoh in a cowboy hat Unbeknownst to me at the time: * finger on monkey's paw curls *
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 02:16
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Man if your taking a smug and superior tone you really should think about making a coherent point. How is the beginning of the third season of at least four (and probably more) “the last minute”? Was DS9 transitioning to a Dominion War plotline at the beginning of its third season “the last minute” when that plot ended up lasting for most of the show’s runtime? Discovery could very well end up being “that long-running show about optimistically rebuilding the Federation in the 32nd century, those first two seasons are weird though”. And Discovery was so about how gritty and lovely the Federation is that in almost every episode our heroes overcome cynicism to prevail against the odds. Comrade Fakename fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Oct 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 02:52
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:Discovery could very well end up being “that long-running show about optimistically rebuilding the Federation in the 32nd century, those first two seasons are weird though”. Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 03:18
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon She's still good for a ride.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 03:36
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:Discovery could very well end up being “that long-running show about optimistically rebuilding the Federation in the 32nd century, those first two seasons are weird though”. Disco’s first two seasons could inadvertently become just a weird set-up for Strange New Worlds.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 03:43
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Disco’s first two seasons could inadvertently become just a weird set-up for Strange New Worlds. Star Trek: Love, American Style
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 03:48
|
|
|
Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:She's still good for a ride. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 03:48
|
|
|
teamcharlie posted:For once I'm gonna try to ask this charitably rather than accuse the show of something: I get the feeling that you don't get to be Empress in the Mirror Universe without taking a few risks. I'm not saying it was smart on her part, but it was consistent with her character.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 03:57
|
|
|
Strong Convections posted:Evil Georgiou makes no drat sense and that irritates me. I dig it. Sort of reminds me of the way Marc Alaimo described his getting into character as Gul Dukat was to play it like he was the main character of some other show making a special guest appearance to help out DS9's setting.* Georgiou was on the throne in her universe for so long, to her this is an extended vacation and a chance to get back to doing what she loves. She's King Conan, not Machiavelli. But she's also there to be an impulsive foil to Saru. Given how she rolls, if she wasn't so obsessed with doing what she thinks is the most efficient thing IMMEDIATELY at all times, she probably would have made the same decision as Saru (to say it was the surviving guy's decision to make since him/his folks were the ones this dude was loving over for so long) and enjoyed seeing how that plays out. In general this episode was good to me. *That episode where the cold open is Dukat calling Kira at like 3AM to be like "Hey your mom and I banged her a lot here's irrefutable proof of that and btw she was a Cardassian collaborator, anyway talk to you later" though  Gonz posted:So, should I assume that Control has somehow weaseled it’s way into Detmer’s cyborg implants or something? I'm assuming this too and god that's going to suck but I guess we can't have any good cyborgs besides 7 of 9 to justify AI being banned or whatever so season 1 of Picard makes some slight sense? Wee Bairns posted:I'm genuinely interested to see how the inevitable scene of Burnham looking up Spock in any historical archives and learning of his accomplishments plays out. Outstanding opportunity to use some "Federation archives" footage from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home here. "My brother was so talented, I wonder what he ended up doi-footage of him swimming with whales)"
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 04:25
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:I get the feeling that you don't get to be Empress in the Mirror Universe without taking a few risks. Devil's advocate: I don't think you become Empress of the Mirror Universe, or Janitor of the Mirror Universe for that matter, by letting yourself get vaporized on your first day by a mook firing a phaser set to kill at you without trying to stop them in any way (attacking them, getting out of the way, shooting them first, disarming them, negotiating, etc.). She didn't know that's what it was, because she had no idea what that future beam gun did at all. But usually we can assume that whatever cobbled together gun your assailant has in Star Trek, it fucks you up. That's not bad tactics. That's literal "I'm taking you off duty until you go see a therapist because you tried to kill yourself for no apparent reason," levels of insanity.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 04:51
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:Outstanding opportunity to use some "Federation archives" footage from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home here. given this is post-temporal cold/hot war, you could justify showing his ultimate fate in the kevlinverse; e.g. eventually starfleet time agents were able to find the right timestream he landed in blahblah and for historical completeness recorded the rest of his life and returned to the main timeline... hell, you could unify the whole kelvinverse that way really
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 04:52
|
|
|
I have one thing to say and that's drat it! Stamets, I love you!
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 05:40
|
|
|
Stamets is the best character on the show, followed by Saru, Tilly, and Reno.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 05:43
|
|
|
The Golden Gael posted:Are you telling me they couldn't give one of their key engineers anything because "medical resources are spread thin" amongst 11 people (going off the exchange between Bad Guy and Tilly)? On a ship with the capacity for at least 136 crewmembers plus dignitaries, scientists, ambassadors and whatever else they might have to ferry? I took from the Bad Guy and Tilly conversation that it was 16* critically injured crew - still critical hours after the crash even with all the future tech. It's unclear how many of the medical staff remained aboard, so we don't know the 'capacity' of a medical team aboard a science vessel, but they were also fixing up people throughout the fight with Control - and we also have no idea if they suffered casualties. If they've kicked Stamets out of a bed there's probably a lot of other crew walking around that either were patched up and sent on their way (Detmer) or really should be there still like Stamets - I doubt they'd count Stamets (or Reno) in the 16 even if he's pretty limited in what he can do. She was not just reading from the manual, she was guiding Stamets and keeping an eye on him. She doesn't leave him because he needs her there - so she has the Doctor brought up for her pain as well as for Stamets. "Reading from the manual" was required because it's implied that Stamets is in so much pain at the point that he can't think straight. Her sass was hilarious, as was Culber's. Stamets is:  and he deserves every bit of sass sent his way for being so ridiculous. * not 11. 72 vs 88, it's around 37mins in if you want to check
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 08:29
|
|
|
I think that it's a reasonable reading of the scene to guess that Georgiou read Zareh as an egotistical sadist and would thus aim to torture over kill, because either the gun would naturally (to a mirror-universe Terran) have a torture mode or because he would deliberately aim for something non-vital to cause her pain. Perhaps she noticed the non-disintegrated corpse on the ground and assumed it was a less-lethal weapon. Definitely a big risk, but a more calculated one than just daring someone to shoot her. I am being charitable here because I like the show, but do I realize this is a pretty big inconsistency. The viewers knew that the gun had a slow-painful-death setting, so the writers wrote Georgiou as knowing about it too. They really should have had her present for Kal dying (or some other demonstration of the torture beam), because as it stands Georgiou is taking an incredible risk with no evidence at all to back it up. I can imagine that an earlier draft had this, but it was either cut because the writers wanted Georgiou to come in at a more dramatic time or because they couldn't figure out why she wouldn't murder the guy trying to murder the guy trying to help them, but that's not the script we got. edit: also Reno got a space wheelchair and presumably some space painkillers, which was probably Good Enough when there were enough critical cases that they had to make the guy who got stabbed through the heart get off the biobed. If they let Detmer walk out with a serious concussion, they sure as hell didn't have enough time to spare on someone who is capable of walking but complaining a lot about it. blastron fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 08:41
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:"My brother was so talented, I wonder what he ended up doi-footage of him swimming with whales)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC35cQKHwzg
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 08:49
|
|
|
Seemlar posted:In the first season high levels of Starfleet ran with a plan Space Hitler proposed to annihilate the Klingon home world with a bomb in it's core and when the main characters find out their immediate reaction is absolutely not, they then unconditionally hand over the trigger to a Klingon they know and hope is reasonable. With no threats, no demands and no leverage, they ask her to do something that would be the best for both sides. No the lesson there is that nuclear blackmail is fine as long as you get a client proxy to do it so you can wash your hands of the situation and pretend you didn't do anything. Rather than commit genocide, the Discovery crew orchestrate a coup of a hostile government. That's better as long as you ignore that it's a parable for Western intervention in the Middle East, and so the moral lesson the show settles on sending is... unsettling.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 09:57
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:Right month for it I loving HATE skeleton "ears" on skeleton animals.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 11:27
|
|
|
I hope that Discovery is going down the route Voy should have: lasting damage, stretched resources, trading for what they need, that kind of thing. This is a strong start and the tension between 'we negotiate for things' and 'we take what we need to ensure our survival' is a good muddy one.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 12:16
|
|
|
Sloth Life posted:I hope that Discovery is going down the route Voy should have: lasting damage, stretched resources, trading for what they need, that kind of thing. This is a strong start and the tension between 'we negotiate for things' and 'we take what we need to ensure our survival' is a good muddy one. Poor oppressed miners have programmable matter in their bar so probably not
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 12:25
|
|
|
Sloth Life posted:I hope that Discovery is going down the route Voy should have: lasting damage, stretched resources, trading for what they need, that kind of thing. This is a strong start and the tension between 'we negotiate for things' and 'we take what we need to ensure our survival' is a good muddy one. They're arriving at Earth this weeks episode so nope lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 12:59
|
|
|
I mean they have the spore drive so they probably don’t have to worry about much
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 13:19
|
|
|
can't wait to see warlike isolationist future-Earth while Georgiou chews the scenery about "finally, my kind of people!" e: bonus points if it turns into a speech about how humans left to their own devices will always trend towards being aggressive and dominant
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 13:37
|
|
|
Snow Cone Capone posted:can't wait to see warlike isolationist future-Earth while Georgiou chews the scenery about "finally, my kind of people!" Powerball: cannibalism
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 13:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 08:30 |
|
|
Nah someone will give an inspiring speech and that's how we end up with the 2 new crew members (the preview shows a bunch of armed humans beaming onto Discovery and also later shows one of the new characters doing what appears to be repairs in a Jeffries tube)
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 14:14
|
|