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RichterIX posted:Moka pots can be pretty fiddly but you can get a really good drink out of them if you nail it. It can be tough to get the temp right (starting with boiling water helps) and getting it off the heat at the right time is important too They're really good in converting random leftover coffee into decent stuff. The other i'd add is that you should clean it thoroughly after use and clean the gasket and stuff every once in a while as well. I don't know why this is common but people let old coffee just stain their moka pots.
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Oct 24, 2020 19:20
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I think there's some old wive's tale kind of stuff going on with moka parts, I have heard people try to say that you should never clean them at all, as if a patina of years-old coffee oils is somehow desirable.
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Oct 24, 2020 19:24
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NZAmoeba posted:Is there any general go-to recommendation for home espresso machines? Especially ones with grinders? My wife was drooling over the Breville Oracle, but the reviews about it dying hard after 2 years make us not want to spend that much. But I really like the idea that the grinding process doesn't leave a huge mess of wasted coffee that missed the basket. We currently use one of the cheaper Breville models that's really been the MVP this lockdown, but it doesn't have a lot of oomph. And that shows when the store grinds our coffee too fine and it just can't push through. Plus the steam wand is also on the weaker side and takes a while to get the job done (we're both latte drinkers).
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Oct 24, 2020 21:36
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NZAmoeba posted:Is there any general go-to recommendation for home espresso machines? Especially ones with grinders? My wife was drooling over the Breville Oracle, but the reviews about it dying hard after 2 years make us not want to spend that much. But I really like the idea that the grinding process doesn't leave a huge mess of wasted coffee that missed the basket. We currently use one of the cheaper Breville models that's really been the MVP this lockdown, but it doesn't have a lot of oomph. And that shows when the store grinds our coffee too fine and it just can't push through. Plus the steam wand is also on the weaker side and takes a while to get the job done (we're both latte drinkers). Home espresso machines are tough to recommend, honestly. The standout below $1000 is the rancilio silvia, but it’s a finicky machine to use because it doesn’t hold very consistent temperature, by default. There are two workarounds to this, one of which is a technique called “temperature surfing” which i’ll let you google if you want to know more. The other option is to install a pid controller, which is a box of electronics that will take over the heating element and keep the temperature much more stable. This adds a couple hundred bucks to the cost of your machine, plus either your time installing it or more money for someone else to install it. There’s no obvious next step up from the silvia. There are a couple options around $1200 for single-boiler machines (like the silvia) that include a pid from the factory. Otherwise you can get a good heat exchanger machine for 1500-ish or a double boiler starting around 2000. Both of these types of machines have better temperature stability by design than single-boiler machines, but most of them also have pids nowadays. None of these will really make better espresso than what you can get out of the silvia but they will all make better espresso more consistently. Then there are the “super-autos” from jura, saeco or delonghi which are gloried nespresso machines. They can’t make good espresso but you will get a caffeinated beverage out of them just by pushing a button, which appeals to a lot of people. The breville oracle is halfway to one of these, except it seems like it can make good espresso because it has a real portafilter instead of a plastic infuser bucket. I have no idea what its durability is like though. Whatever you choose (other than the superauto), you’ll need to get your own grinder. The taste and texture of espresso is very sensitive to flow rate and pressure and grind size is a key variable to dial in. There’s no way to have the store do this for you, since it’s dependent on your machine, coffee, age of the coffee, dose, portafilter basket, and other factors. Incidentally all machines will “choke” if presented with coffee that’s ground too fine; it’s not an issue with the power of the machine, since more pressure will just compress the puck more, making it even harder to squeeze any water through. You need to be able to back off the grind size a little if this happens. So to get good results, you have to grind at home with a grinder that can grind fine enough and that you can adjust finely enough to get into that sweet spot of flow rate. The low end here is maybe the baratza sette 270, for $400, or the niche zero for £500 plus a bit of a waiting period since it’s a new, much hyped product and they’re shipping them out about as fast as they can make them. The much cheaper options are to go with a manual grinder and a manual (lever) espresso press. Ymmv if this is something you want to do every day for your morning brew, but you can get the flair neo for $120 and there are a few manual grinder options that can do espresso grinds. I don’t know much about these, I used a hario skerton manual grinder for a while and ended up hating it. Supposedly that’s one of the worst ones though.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:41
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hypnophant posted:manual (lever) espresso press. Has anyone tried using one of these things with a 1zpresso JX (regular not pro)? I've been eyeing one (probably a flair with the upgraded basket) but don't want to splurge unless I know my grinder is good enough for it.
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Oct 24, 2020 23:15
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Manual grinding for espresso is really inconvenient. Especially if you need to dial in the grind. I would only do that to my worst enemies. The only Flair I'd buy if I only used a manual grinder is the cheapest Neo with the pressurized filter. At least you'll get a decent shot from it every time without breaking your arm grinding another 18g of beans.
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Oct 24, 2020 23:39
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There is another sub-$1000 alternative to the Silvia, the Lelit Anna, which comes with a PID for $629: https://www.1st-line.com/buy/lelit-pl41tem-anna-pid-espresso-machine/ If you're comfortable with buying a grinder from overseas (sans warranty), you can pair it with an Eureka Mignon Silenzio or Specialita and end up with a great setup for a hair over $1000. edit: My current setup is a previous-generation Anna (a $200 Craigslist find) and a Specialita purchased from an Italian vendor for $430. I drink only espressos and this is a perfect setup for my needs curried lamb of God fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 00:12
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Alongside the Siliva, a Gaggia Classic pro is a great entry level machine although you will have to buy a grinder separate. They also have a pretty dedicated fan following so there is a lot of help out there, alongside mods to improve functionality. The Sette 30 is a pretty nice entry level grinder, and i'm sure that you can find a refurbished one from Baratza for a lot cheaper.
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Oct 25, 2020 00:14
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AnimeIsTrash posted:The Sette 30 is a pretty nice entry level grinder, and i'm sure that you can find a refurbished one from Baratza for a lot cheaper. I don't know if it's a good idea, in this context, to recommend grinders that aren't capable of being dialled in properly for espresso. The Sette 270 would be fine though. Gunder fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 00:18
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As a previous Silvia user (I haven't gotten to post it anywhere for sale so I still own it  ), I would advise against a non-PID machine if you're just getting into home espresso. That being said, there are PID units that are only a couple hundred bucks and a couple hours to install, which makes the machine way, way easier to get consistent shots with.
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Oct 25, 2020 00:25
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Abner Assington posted:As a previous Silvia user (I haven't gotten to post it anywhere for sale so I still own it Is temperature surfing all that different from what we do with our HXs? I never owned anything that didn't have a thermojet before my Appartamento, so having to manipulate a boiler was a novel concept to me.
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Oct 25, 2020 00:57
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Gunder posted:Is temperature surfing all that different from what we do with our HXs? I never owned anything that didn't have a thermojet before my Appartamento, so having to manipulate a boiler was a novel concept to me. I got a mara x to replace my silvia, so no cooling flush required. Temperature surfing is different, though; on the silvia the boiler and the grouphead are at the same temperature, so you have to flush enough water out of the boiler to get it to kick the pump on, then wait for its heating cycle to finish, then wait to catch it when it’s cooled to the temp you want. It’s involved, it takes an extra minute or two, and it’s imprecise so even with all that the results are unreliable. Frankly I agree with abner but without the rancilio it’s even harder to make a recommendation.
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Oct 25, 2020 01:11
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Are there any standard ratios I can start with for toying around with espresso-like drinks? My girlfriends likes mochas and I figure I can make something drinkable with an aeropress or moka pot and froth milk with a French press. Am I thinking too hard about this? Is it pretty much just whatever she thinks tastes good in terms of milk/chocolate once I make some fake espresso?
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Oct 25, 2020 01:13
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The Postman posted:Are there any standard ratios I can start with for toying around with espresso-like drinks? My girlfriends likes mochas and I figure I can make something drinkable with an aeropress or moka pot and froth milk with a French press. I haven’t watched the whole thing, but James Hoffmann did a video on this subject earlier this year. https://youtu.be/ZgIVfU0xBjA
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Oct 25, 2020 01:25
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Gunder posted:I haven’t watched the whole thing, but James Hoffmann did a video on this subject earlier this year. https://youtu.be/ZgIVfU0xBjA Thanks! I'll check this out. Maybe I'll wind up getting into the drinks myself.
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Oct 25, 2020 01:55
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hypnophant posted:I got a mara x to replace my silvia, so no cooling flush required. Temperature surfing is different, though; on the silvia the boiler and the grouphead are at the same temperature, so you have to flush enough water out of the boiler to get it to kick the pump on, then wait for its heating cycle to finish, then wait to catch it when it’s cooled to the temp you want. It’s involved, it takes an extra minute or two, and it’s imprecise so even with all that the results are unreliable. Frankly I agree with abner but without the rancilio it’s even harder to make a recommendation. Would love to see a head to head for entry level machines: Silvia, Gaggia, Anna, Bambino with a comparable grinder. The Anna with a PID at <$700 seems like it's an easy win for consistency. I get questions from people and it's tough without using all of them as a daily to recommend something. Agree on Mara X no surfing at all glad they'll push others to follow suit.
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Oct 25, 2020 02:12
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Gunder posted:Is temperature surfing all that different from what we do with our HXs? I never owned anything that didn't have a thermojet before my Appartamento, so having to manipulate a boiler was a novel concept to me. I'm speaking in Fahrenheit, of course, because I'm a filthy American. MustacheNet posted:Agree on Mara X no surfing at all glad they'll push others to follow suit. I saw months ago that Rancilio is putting out (or has already put out) a Silvia "Pro," which is dual boiler/PID/separate steam and hot water wands, etc. Of course, the last I saw it was estimated to be in the $2000+ price range. Like, for gently caress's sake, the base Silvia is a tried and true machine, but its design is weakened by not having a PID as a default part of the machine. Just add the damned thing, increase the price however to match, and you would have a really solid entry level semi-automatic machine. It's ridiculous. Abner Assington fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 02:17
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Ah, I see. I didn’t know the fluctuations were that extreme on the Silvia.
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Oct 25, 2020 02:36
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Meanwhile breville has machines with PID and pressure gauges for under $500. Yeah they get to that price by using cheap plastic parts everywhere but you'd think these features would be standard by now for everyone else.
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Oct 25, 2020 02:37
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Abner Assington posted:Like, for gently caress's sake, the base Silvia is a tried and true machine, but its design is weakened by not having a PID as a default part of the machine. Just add the damned thing, increase the price however to match, and you would have a really solid entry level semi-automatic machine. It's ridiculous. SCG will add one with a warranty for $1000 but you're right on there's no reason they shouldn't offer this from the factory at this point. My earlier comment is retracted already James Hoffman has this covered. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HIGdYy5of4 Unfortunately not the Anna PID since it's sticking to a price point.
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Oct 25, 2020 02:46
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Mu Zeta posted:Meanwhile breville has machines with PID and pressure gauges for under $500. Yeah they get to that price by using cheap plastic parts everywhere but you'd think these features would be standard by now for everyone else. It does seem like there’s been a shift over the last five or ten years as cnc machined parts and electronic controllers continue to filter down the value chain, but a lot of the popular designs especially at the entry level are just older than that and haven’t been updated. Domestic espresso, while growing, is a niche market and most manufacturers haven’t been excited to put in the r&d to push their products forward until very very recently. At the high end I think this is going to change very soon, the decent is such a leap in capability that it’s making it very difficult to buy any of the traditional double boiler home machines even if they add features like flow profiling. If they can bring that approach to espresso to a price point around $1000 I think they have a chance to clear out a lot of the market. The same is happening with grinders; 15 years ago the rocky was one of the very few entry-level options for espresso-capable grinders and today you have an increasing number of options for domestic-focused grinders with stepless adjustment and low retention, to say nothing of the grind-to-order styles and flat burrs that are getting hyped at the high end.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:43
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MustacheNet posted:SCG will add one with a warranty for $1000 but you're right on there's no reason they shouldn't offer this from the factory at this point.
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Oct 25, 2020 18:53
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Breville makes a $1500 dual boiler machine that I have and am happy with. I would describe their stuff vs other manufacturers as a engineering vs craftsmanship tradeoff. Most machines seem like low volume products built with expensive parts and skilled assembly labor. Breville's stuff seems like it's had a lot more engineering hours & revisions put into it, aimed mostly at making them cheaper to build. Some things from that are flat out better (e.g. solid state power electronics and PI control are both cheaper and better than a traditional presurestat), sometimes they're worse (e.g. rubber gaskets instead of silicone), and sometimes it's neutral to the end customer (e.g. ease of plumbing the guts inside the chassis)
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Oct 26, 2020 00:07
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I ended up getting some intelligentsia black cat espresso beans, their website mentions pulling 2.5 dosage amount. That seems a much longer pull than what is usually recommended (18 in 36ish out in 30)? Is that worth trying? The shots are already coming out on the bitter/smoky side of things so I'm a bit hesitant.
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Oct 26, 2020 20:59
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Took my coffee sock for a test drive and it’s pretty nice so far. More body and a bit cloudier of a cup but no silt like a French press. I only had some older beans to brew with, but looking forward to trying again with fresher stuff that I should be picking up tomorrow or Wednesday. Using 4:6 method to tame the fast drain times. At first I tried rinsing it with hot tap water like I do with my paper filters and had almost no flow through it, so I tried boiling water and it cleared up and flowed really fast. So maybe it ships with some starch or something in the fabric? Anyway rinse thoroughly with boiling water before brewing.
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Oct 26, 2020 22:09
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Perhaps the fine people of this thread can tell me if the following is a bad idea: I have a Sage Bambino Plus, it's alright. I recently saw some videos featuring the La Pavoni Europiccola manual espresso machine and I like the idea of it. Would it be silly of me to get one, along with a decent grinder? I'm UK based and they appear to be available for around £500. What I like: - They seem simple - How they're described as lasting decades with proper maintenance - this is the main draw - That they've got a milk steamer (otherwise I'd just get a manual espresso maker without a hot water source) - The idea of practising and getting good What I don't know: - How much I'd need to spend on a grinder - I presently have an old wall-mounted burr grinder and a Hario hand grinder. With the comments in the OP I'd be confident neither are suitable. - If decent espresso would be out of reach for someone with no experience, but who doesn't mind putting some work in - How much work it is to clean, to maintain, and how often - I saw a video on maintenance and it was pretty much a full teardown, I don't know how necessary that is - Would any modifications be needed or strongly advised?
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Oct 29, 2020 12:50
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Anjow posted:Perhaps the fine people of this thread can tell me if the following is a bad idea: It's a great idea! I haven't ever used a lever machine but they look like a lot of fun. I'm sure there is some practice required to get a tasty shot out of it but that's true of all espresso machines. Grinders - there are some hand grinders that work for espresso but the harios are not really among them sadly. You could look at the knock aergrind which might be the absolute cheapest good option at £100, or the comandante which is highly regarded for a bit more. For electric grinders, the £500 niche zero is receiving huge hype and great reviews. I think europeans can also get the eureka mignon grinders for less than we can get them in the states, which would make them very good value. Practice - decent espresso is definitely not out of reach but you will likely have to waste at least a few ounces of coffee before you get something tasty. It's certainly a hobby, and manual lever machines are the deep end of it, but there's no reason it wouldn't be doable if you're willing to practice. Cleaning/maintenance - you may not need to do any serious maintenance for years or decades if you clean and descale your machine regularly and don't abuse it by allowing it to overheat. Get some descaler and use it according to the manufacturer's instructions and it will last you a long, long time. How often you need to descale will depend on your water hardness - it could be monthly, annually, or anything in between - but it's not a complicated process. When you let this go too long is when you start to develop problems and need to tear down the boiler and soak everything in vinegar or potentially replace parts. Modifications - La pavoni sells some machines with pressure gauges built in, which is probably a worthwhile upgrade, but not absolutely necessary. Nice-to-haves are a bottomless portafilter and possibly a precision basket, if you can find one in the correct size to fit the machine. One of those stick-on color-change temperature strips on the grouphead would also be useful. Other extras - definitely get a good tamper, and a scale that will read in 0.1g increments.
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Oct 29, 2020 14:32
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Anjow posted:Perhaps the fine people of this thread can tell me if the following is a bad idea: Give this a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKimj0vRM5A
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Oct 29, 2020 20:19
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Gunder posted:Give this a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKimj0vRM5A That was the video in which I first came across it, the one that gave me the idea.
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Oct 29, 2020 21:11
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I've been trying out some changes to my water chemistry. My tap water is some of the softest in Europe and lacks a lot of the minerals that you want for ideal extraction, so I thought I'd try out some Third Wave Water. I bought some sachets and mixed it with distilled water to make "ideal water" for coffee brewing. The result was some very well rounded pour-overs that tasted a bit more "full" than my normal tap water brews. It wasn't a night and day difference, but then again, my tap water tastes pretty good normally, so it's not like I was using the sort of hard-as-nails corpse water that you get in places like London. I don't really know if it's worth the cost for me, but if you live somewhere with dreadful water, it could be well worth experimenting with, especially if you have easy, cheap access to distilled or RO water. Has anyone else tried messing around with their brew water makeup?
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Oct 31, 2020 03:38
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Gunder posted:I've been trying out some changes to my water chemistry. My tap water is some of the softest in Europe and lacks a lot of the minerals that you want for ideal extraction, so I thought I'd try out some Third Wave Water. I bought some sachets and mixed it with distilled water to make "ideal water" for coffee brewing. i demand a double blind trial
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Oct 31, 2020 10:55
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Lord Stimperor posted:i demand a double blind trial Tried as close as I could get. Brewed 2x V60s, side by side, split the brews into 2 small cups each (4 total) and then mixed up the cups using a lazy susan. I tasted the 4 cups over 40 minutes and found that the two I kept preferring were from the TWW. Again, it's not a massive difference because my tap water is pretty good, but the tap water brews tasted noticeably more hollow and less "full" than the TWW ones, both when hot and after they had cooled. I suspect you'd taste more of a difference with shittier tap water. I used Aricha, a washed Ethiopian light roast from Square Mile and 300ml water to 20g beans ground on my Niche Zero.
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Oct 31, 2020 19:21
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Which of the Bond villains decided to sell fancy coffee water now e: I'm not saying it doesn't have a different taste. Just that it takes an evil person to package and sell water.
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Nov 1, 2020 00:46
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They sell sachets of stuff that you mix into any distilled water, so you don’t actually buy bottles of water. https://thirdwavewater.com If I keep using it I’ll most likely get a zero water filter jug to make my own zero TDS water from my tap water. Gunder fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Nov 1, 2020 01:01
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I might try those out just to see how lovely my water really is.
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Nov 1, 2020 02:38
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Gunder posted:They sell sachets of stuff that you mix into any distilled water, so you don’t actually buy bottles of water. https://thirdwavewater.com I went through the same process you are right now, and I currently use a Zero filter and TWW to make my coffee water like you describe. It works great and does make a big difference. However the TWW packets are expensive for a few grams of common minerals. Does anybody have a recipe for them?
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Nov 1, 2020 13:11
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There are various recipes out there. Matt Perger has one, so does Scott Rao. You can find them by googling for them.
Gunder fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Nov 1, 2020 16:40
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IIRC, Perger's suggested water solution was to ask what your favorite roaster did for water and try and match that. That way your coffee is made with the same water the roaster uses for cupping/dialing in their roasts.
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Nov 1, 2020 18:42
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Gunder posted:There are various recipes out there. Matt Perger has one, so does Scott Rao. You can find them buy googling for them. While I know that grinding quality whole beans on a solid burr machine and paying attention to brewing ratios makes me a coffee snob to the majority of the population, following Scott Rao on Instagram showed me I’ve only dipped a toe in the kiddy pool while he’s exploring the bottom of the Mariana Trench of coffee science.
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Nov 1, 2020 18:43
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I got a Porlex Mini for my birthday and that little thing owns so much. The neatest thing is that the grounds container at the bottom fits onto the bean tunnel on top. So you measure out your beans with the little container, then insert the top end (inverted) into the container and flip it around. No spill, quick and easy. There are much more expensive grinder's that aren't this thought out. Yeah it's a bit slow because it's so tiny and cute. But I haven't touched my big ROK grinder in almost a week because the Porlex is so easy to fill, less likely to spill grounds, quiet, and I can walk around with it while grinding. Best thing: it fits inside the Aeropress, which in turn fits with all needed accessories fits into a little shaving bag I bought. That means I have a rad portable kit now. I'll never have to drink lovely coffee anywhere again.
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Nov 2, 2020 23:43
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