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Radirot posted:going forward im about giving more power to the green party. i know this isnt the best answer but individually i see no other way in breaking the duopoly. better answer than every other poster in this thread. good on ya if you vote Green Party.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:22
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:what The ballot, for the left, has never been the front to fight: structural changes are rarely borne in electoral cycles, but they are much more likely in an organized, systematic method of struggle. Means of popular mobilization are far more important. These are unions, tenant leagues, farmers' leagues, civic associations and any other form of assembly based on mutual solidarity, the promotion of equality and the challenge of established neoliberal authority. Leftist victories through the ballots come exactly because they happen as consequence of the process developed through those means than through what is often portrayed as the "democratic process". In the USA, electoralism is sacrosanct, yet never in the favor of popular interest, which is why abominations such as electoral colleges and party delegates are seen as "okay". And when leftists go through those machinations and perform well, the institutional devices and operators are all arranged to deny them any advantage whatsoever. Still, these same forces will drum on and on and on and on about how important your vote is - but they will never tell that is only valid if you vote their way. The alternative is to reject that arrangement. Striking, picket lines, blockading, whatever you have available: the cops will come, the liberals will denounce you, rather declaring you a traitor to your country, an enemy to the democratic process, etc etc. Put pressure directly by popular action, and liberal democracy will not accept it. It will fight you back. It is not a good alternative. But it is the only one that for sure can give us something new, here, there or anywhere. We have a world to win, after all.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:22
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shovelbum posted:I wish I could go back and undo my vote for Biden (if he wins, specific relevant things will likely actually improve for me) bc you're his biggest fan and super cringey Jesus Christ you voted for a warmongering rapist freak knowing full well the victims hit hardest by his administration would be Black and Muslim people both here and abroad the gently caress is wrong with you
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Oct 31, 2020 06:23
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dead gay comedy forums posted:The alternative is to reject that arrangement. Striking, picket lines, blockading, whatever you have available: the cops will come, the liberals will denounce you, rather declaring you a traitor to your country, an enemy to the democratic process, etc etc. Put pressure directly by popular action, and liberal democracy will not accept it. It will fight you back. It is not a good alternative. good alternatives but not that prevent you from voting (unless charged with a felony). if you don’t vote for anyone you are choosing to throw all that work away since that is the system that exists.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:25
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:good alternatives but not that prevent you from voting (unless charged with a felony). if you don’t vote for anyone you are choosing to throw all that work away since that is the system that exists. you voted for a warmongering rapist, you are in no place to dictate anything to anyone the non-voters have more dignity than you, you’re sucking on a geriatric austerity rapist’s toes in public in exchange for absolutely nothing. Biden and his ghouls are dryfucking your future in the rear end right in front of you and you’re sitting there going yes papa Biden bomb some more Muslim weddings while you deny me healthcare
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Oct 31, 2020 06:27
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Taintrunner posted:you voted for a warmongering rapist, you are in no place to dictate anything to anyone you’re a good person taintrunner
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Oct 31, 2020 06:28
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:what As I've posted in here before, while I didn't vote for Biden, I am not as hostile to those who disagree with me. The alternative to voting for Biden is focusing on building institutions and organizations that are strong enough to have more influence to give the Left a louder voice and more power. This can be done either by joining unions, donating money to organizations like the DSA, participating in strikes/demonstrations, etc. Voting, donating, and canvassing for politicians is also important, but it will only be during primaries (Lee Carter, The Squad) or for third party candidates to build momentum to be real challengers (Vermont Progressive Party, Socialist Alternative). Now you are probably going to quote this with the response "But why not do all that and still vote for Biden?" The answer is because the Left is trying to make itself a force. The issue with Joe Biden isn't that doesn't want Full Communism Now, the issue is that Biden isn't pushing for or isn't going to enact anything at all to appease the Left. The best you have for Biden is "he's not as bad as the Republican" which translates to "he doesn't offer the Left anything". Thus Biden isn''t going to to stop the nation from driving off a cliff, but more so just ease up on the gas pedal a bit. If the Left agrees to support the Democrats despite them offering nothing at best then they are taking the Left's votes for granted and giving the message that the Left can be ignored because they will always vote for the Democrats no matter what. In contrast, almost all of the Left was eager for or even campaigned for Bernie Sanders. Including Socialist Alternative, a Trotskyist party. Hell, 20% of all the site's bans came from the stupidass primary toxx about Bernie winning. So why do so many leftists support Sanders despite him also not wanting to enact Full Communism Now? Because at least Sanders catters to the Left's needs such as Medicare For All, employee ownership, transferring the minimum wage to a living wage, etc. Now obviously this will all definitely be watered down by the time it passed Congress but it would all be legitimate steps forward largely because Bernie has some respect for the Left. The issue with the Left's hostility toward Biden isn't that is giving us tablescraps, it's that he's giving us dogshit and when pressed all he can say is "But I give you a bit less dogshit than the other guy!" At the end of the day it's still poo poo and it's making us sick and we have to focus all of our energy in building a movement to counteract these poo poo givers as soon as possible before we become too sick and die. The overton window has been moving further and further to the right when it comes to economics and foreign policy almost the past half century. Traditionally, Democrats are ten to twenty years separated by the median of the Republican Party. I can understand after all this still arguing that bending the knee toward the Democrats and fighting for change can be done at the same time, but I wouldn't blame people who disagree seeing how the 2008's Democratic nominee's running mate who was picked to appeal to swing Bush voters is now being used as uniting figure. To them the script will be the same, Biden is elected, Biden doesn't enact any good things he says he will do, he bows to the corporations only a measurable amount less than his opponent, the Democratic Party loses again in 4 to 8 years, the new Republican president is worse than the previous one, Democrats win by catering to "swing voters", rinse and repeat punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 06:41 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 06:34
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punk rebel ecks posted:This can be done either by joining unions, donating money to organizations like the DSA, participating in strikes/demonstrations, etc. Voting, donating, and canvassing for politicians is also important, but it will only be during primaries (Lee Carter, The Squad) or for third party candidates to build momentum to be real challengers (Vermont Progressive Party, Socialist Alternative). I’ve done what you listed above (donating, canvasing, voting in primaries). I voted Bernie and am pissed what the DNC did to him. I still don’t see the benefit of a trump victory. help me understand
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Oct 31, 2020 06:44
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If Biden wins the left is shut out of presidential politics and likely the entire Democrat party for anywhere between 4-16 years. Furthermore, Biden will do most of the same things Trump does (other than tweet crazy poo poo), but nobody will be mad about it. If Trump wins the left still has a chance, he's too stupid to do anything about it. Not to mention the million or so extra people outside of America that Biden will kill if he wins.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:48
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I’ve done what you listed above (donating, canvasing, voting in primaries). I voted Bernie and am pissed what the DNC did to him. It's not so much that a Trump victory is beneficial (unless you are in Latin America), but that by voting for Biden it makes the Democrats less likely to take the Left seriously in the future. The main reason why the Democrats hosed Bernie and were able to get away with it scott free was because they knew that Bernie voters were going to vote for Biden anyway. If the Democrats knew that by loving over Bernie there was a seriously chance that even a third of his supporters wouldn't show up to vote in the general then the Democrats wouldn't ratfuck him. Why do you think the Republican Party didn't do the same to Trump? Other than Trump not being nearly hostile to the puppetmasters, it was also due to the fact that if the Republicans hosed with Trump then his voters would go with him, especially since the debates opened up with Trump all but confirming that he'd run third party if he didn't win. EDIT - Let me put it this way. If the American left was principled enough not to vote for people who ratfuck them and their candidates and Democrats understood this message, then Bernie would have never been ratfucked the day before Super Tuesday and he likely would have won the nomination and guaranteed the presidency. But instead we have to deal with "ex-Blue Dog" zombie man because the American Left is too gosh darn loyal to the Democrats. punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 06:58 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 06:51
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:If Biden wins the left is shut out of presidential politics and likely the entire Democrat party for anywhere between 4-16 years. Furthermore, Biden will do most of the same things Trump does (other than tweet crazy poo poo), but nobody will be mad about it. If Trump wins the left still has a chance, he's too stupid to do anything about it. Not to mention the million or so extra people outside of America that Biden will kill if he wins.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:55
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punk rebel ecks posted:If the Democrats knew that by loving over Bernie there was a seriously chance that even a third of his supporters wouldn't show up to vote in the general then the Democrats wouldn't ratfuck him. do you honestly believe that? I voted Biden and I don’t believe that. the current version of the Dems give zero poo poo about the presidency or “winning”. the fact they hosed over Bernie twice and continue to try to gently caress leftist candidate after major losses is all the proof I need.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:57
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:do you honestly believe that? I voted Biden and I don’t believe that. the current version of the Dems give zero poo poo about the presidency or “winning”. the fact they hosed over Bernie twice and continue to try to gently caress leftist candidate after major losses is all the proof I need. you voted for a warmongering rapist, you don’t believe in anything.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:59
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:do you honestly believe that? I voted Biden and I don’t believe that. the current version of the Dems give zero poo poo about the presidency or “winning”. the fact they hosed over Bernie twice and continue to try to gently caress leftist candidate after major losses is all the proof I need. If they knew that a quarter of their constituents would say "gently caress it" and never vote for them/start a third party and split the vote the Dems will. There is zero point in playing dirty to have power over a political party if said party never wins.
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Oct 31, 2020 07:00
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punk rebel ecks posted:If they knew that a quarter of their constituents would say "gently caress it" and never vote for them/start a third party and split the vote the Dems will. There is zero point in playing dirty to have power over a political party if said party never wins. I don’t know if I buy that. Dems could just sandbag the smaller third party for decades and still receive lots of $$$ from their actual customers. they’re controlled opposition the only way forward I see is to move/destroy them from within edit; it’s also asking a lot from vulnerable people to suffer decades of harsher punishment under Republicans
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Oct 31, 2020 07:04
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I don’t know if I buy that. Dems could just sandbag the smaller third party for decades and still receive lots of $$$ from their actual customers. they’re controlled opposition It's not much controlled opposition if that opposition isn't able to oppose anything even in its kabuki theater. virtualboyCOLOR posted:the only way forward I see is to move/destroy them from within How can you move/destroy it from within if they aren't willing to have even social democrats in legitimate positions of power without ratfucking them to death? virtualboyCOLOR posted:edit; it’s also asking a lot from vulnerable people to suffer decades of harsher punishment under Republicans The vulnerable people are the ones who aren't voting. Just take a look at the Texas voter turnout gap for example. It's the poor Latino communities that have low turnout this election. Those who by far and wide have the most to lose under a Trump administration. punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 07:08 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 07:06
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:at this point you’re just making things up. to insulate trump doesn’t want to give police more money is laughable on its face sorry where in Trump's platform is increasing federal funds to municipal police departments
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Oct 31, 2020 07:15
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indigi posted:sorry where in Trump's platform is increasing federal funds to municipal police departments Does it really matter? Trump never does what he says. He just does whatever he wants on a whim. That said, if an increasing in law enforcement spending bill landed on his desk I doubt he would think twice before signing it.
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Oct 31, 2020 07:17
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indigi posted:sorry where in Trump's platform is increasing federal funds to municipal police departments Biden screaming about how much more fascist hes gonna be if elected is just natural born harm reduction, sorry you silly leftists, but that’s just how stuff gets done
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Oct 31, 2020 07:25
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punk rebel ecks posted:Does it really matter? Trump never does what he says. He just does whatever he wants on a whim. That said, if an increasing in law enforcement spending bill landed on his desk I doubt he would think twice before signing it. of course he would probably sign it, but he's not pledging to whip his party (which could very well control both houses) into getting it done. also if the Dems push it he might just veto it out of spite.
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Oct 31, 2020 07:28
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https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/1322566621689511936 lol
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Oct 31, 2020 17:45
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twitter rots the brain
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Oct 31, 2020 18:00
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:twitter rots the brain Much like your posting
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Oct 31, 2020 18:07
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she can finally go back to brunch.
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Oct 31, 2020 19:49
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Has someone informed her trump is not leaving office lol My god election night is going to be hilarious
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Oct 31, 2020 20:12
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Malkina_ posted:Has someone informed her trump is not leaving office lol online leftist: “people getting disenfranchised, assaulted, and murdered on Election night is hilarious”
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Oct 31, 2020 22:37
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every time i see you post my brain reads malinka https://youtu.be/m8m2BYv02Nw moya!
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Oct 31, 2020 22:39
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join a communist party and help strengthen proletarian organization (joining a union if you can as well) to work towards establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat and overthrowing capitalism. in the mean time why bother voting for an anti-communist rapist and the capitalist system that leads to fascism when things get hairy? also, making the end goal of any leftist movement “pushing the democratic party/its replacement left” is just neutering yourself
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Oct 31, 2020 23:10
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punk rebel ecks posted:If the American left was principled enough not to vote for people who ratfuck them and their candidates and Democrats understood this message the american left will never be principled enough to do this and the Democratic Party wouldn’t care for a second if they somehow did so I don’t understand why it should be an organizing principle. withholding your vote does not give you power — the dems will continue to do whatever they need to do to secure their material interests and co-opting the leftist block is antiethical to that even if it’ll secure them an electoral win (they’d much rather lose and we all know it) electoralism is dumb but idk v*te for a cabinet that isn’t going to openly laugh at campus sexual assault victims or something because the alternative is even dumber
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Oct 31, 2020 23:30
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GenJoe posted:the american left will never be principled enough to do this and the Democratic Party wouldn’t care for a second if they somehow did so I don’t understand why it should be an organizing principle. withholding your vote does not give you power — the dems will continue to do whatever they need to do to secure their material interests and co-opting the leftist block is antiethical to that even if it’ll secure them an electoral win (they’d much rather lose and we all know it) If we were organized enough to vote as a bloc and withhold our vote as a bloc we'd probably be able to swing a democratic primary and not need six different opponents running to be in the lead.
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Oct 31, 2020 23:34
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GenJoe posted:electoralism is dumb but idk v*te for a cabinet that isn’t going to openly laugh at campus sexual assault victims or something because the alternative is even dumber joe biden is literally a rapist who wants to stuff his cabinet with anti-abortion freaks like john loving kasich, you illiterate rube
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Oct 31, 2020 23:41
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Panzeh posted:If we were organized enough to vote as a bloc and withhold our vote as a bloc we'd probably be able to swing a democratic primary and not need six different opponents running to be in the lead. i agree and it's still going to be much easier to do this affirmatively in the primary my girlfriend used to be a rape counselor and has explained to me many many times that the title IX poo poo done under obama was legitimately important to sexual assault survivors, so i shut the gently caress up and vote for what's hopefully a less openly-hostile cabinet instead of trying to convince her to trade her vote for some barely tangible promise of future leftist power
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Oct 31, 2020 23:45
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Taintrunner posted:joe biden is literally a rapist who wants to stuff his cabinet with anti-abortion freaks like john loving kasich, you illiterate rube this has always been strange to me (because he's a rapist) but VOWA really does appear to be one of the few legislative initiatives he's ever genuinely cared about. idk maybe i'm a rube. i'm not saying his cabinet will be good, but you're not going to get betsy devos or stephen miller levels of evil and you're delusional if you think either cabinet will be functionally identical
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Oct 31, 2020 23:49
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GenJoe posted:my girlfriend used to be a rape counselor and has explained to me many many times that the title IX poo poo done under obama was legitimately important to sexual assault survivors, so i shut the gently caress up and vote for what's hopefully a less openly-hostile cabinet instead of trying to convince her to trade her vote for some barely tangible promise of future leftist power you're voting for a rich white male rapist to be rewarded with the highest office in the land so he can stuff his cabinet with anti-abortion republicans, promising nothing but brutal austerity, which will further drive young women into sex work in order to survive. not to mention all of the women of color abroad who will be killed, raped, or enslaved by american bombs or the fascist coups we directly aid. you're loving delusional. GenJoe posted:this has always been strange to me (because he's a rapist) but VOWA really does appear to be one of the few legislative initiatives he's ever genuinely cared about. idk maybe i'm a rube. i'm not saying his cabinet will be good, but you're not going to get betsy devos or stephen miller levels of evil and you're delusional if you think either cabinet will be functionally identical you support a warmongering rapist that has destroyed the lives of millions of women of color both here and abroad. you have absolutely no authority to speak much less call some delusional. Biden's top pick for his cabinet, John loving Kasich, the anti-abortion pro-hate crimes freak, is definetely on the side of sexual assault survivors. Wake the gently caress up already.
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Oct 31, 2020 23:50
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The entertainment on election night will come from the fact that due to mail-in ballots being counted last, it will look for all the world like Trump will win at first, then Biden will. So I'll get to watch BOTH groups of people I hate melt down. What a gift
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Oct 31, 2020 23:56
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Jewel Repetition posted:The entertainment on election night will come from the fact that due to mail-in ballots being counted last, it will look for all the world like Trump will win at first, then Biden will. So I'll get to watch BOTH groups of people I hate melt down. What a gift they're just not going to count em, bud
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Nov 1, 2020 00:00
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Joe biden would have already won if he had a platform of either legalizing cannabis or spending a few mil to fix flint's water problem. Neither of these would even challenge capital so this is just evidence that the dems have no interest in even the bare minimum.
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Nov 1, 2020 00:07
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Joe Biden will do exactly the same poo poo as Donald Trump and his policies should be opposed just as hard. In my experience, if you intend to oppose someone's policies, a good start is to not vote for them
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Nov 1, 2020 01:08
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Taintrunner posted:you're voting for a rich white male rapist to be rewarded with the highest office in the land so he can stuff his cabinet with anti-abortion republicans, promising nothing but brutal austerity, which will further drive young women into sex work in order to survive. not to mention all of the women of color abroad who will be killed, raped, or enslaved by american bombs or the fascist coups we directly aid. I wish I could vote for Biden a second time while Natalie Wynn reads this post to me
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Nov 1, 2020 01:19
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:do you honestly believe that? I voted Biden and I don’t believe that. the current version of the Dems give zero poo poo about the presidency or “winning”. the fact they hosed over Bernie twice and continue to try to gently caress leftist candidate after major losses is all the proof I need. If you believe that, why the gently caress would you vote for those monsters?
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Nov 1, 2020 01:20
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