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what point should he have been getting across? that antisemitism is worse/more important than other forms of racism? because I don't believe that, and I highly doubt Corbyn does either
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Nov 1, 2020 16:32
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Corbyn could have invented a time machine to go back and give Hitler a Diamond Cutter from the top of the Volkshalle and they'd have still called him antisemitic. There is no sating the press on the terms they set, only in abandoning all left wing policy and ideals could Corbyn be accepted.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:36
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therattle posted:My main issue with him is how long it took him to realise that there was a problem in the party. Sure, he condemned AS, but it was usually accompanied by a minimisation of the problem, and with the formulation "and all other forms of racism". To a Jew that is a bit like "All Lives Matter". gently caress me. That is some statement. I don't think you understand at all why All Lives Matter is a problem. But then I struggle to understand how you are capable of remembering to breathe.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:37
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I assume that the availability of slots is heavily dependent on where you live, because for my postcode Tesco, Sainsbury's and Morrisons had none whatsoever and I managed to get the very last one that Asda had.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:38
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Julio Cruz posted:what point should he have been getting across? that antisemitism is worse/more important than other forms of racism? because I don't believe that, and I highly doubt Corbyn does either That while they are being asked about AS they don't need to talk about other forms of racism. Purely as a media tactic to focus on one thing at a time. I'd certainly agree that I don't think AS is more important/worse than other forms and I'd also agree that Corbyn doesn't either. It might have been a better media strategy, it might not. It seems to have rubbed at least therattle up the wrong way and we know that polling suggested that this was a common attitude in the jewish community.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:42
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I have been increasingly worried over the last few years that the march of progress of human society has been about hacking and influencing human behaviour, and at some point a breakthrough was made by advertisers that has entirely hosed us. Sort of like the idea that what Derren Brown does for entertainment, other companies do for profit or for political power (which usually boils down to profit). https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1321807534387306497) then as most people in the UK don't really know much about antisemitism, it ends up as a feeling of vague unease/distrust in Corbyn. Perhaps the most unfortunate part is there were enough actual incidents of anti-Traveller racism, anti-Black racism etc. in the Labour Party for them to have tried the same thing there, but it wouldn't have worked because the typical English reaction to "Jeremy Corbyn wants to round up and shoot all Travellers" would be "good" and if you tried to tell the African-Caribbean community "Jeremy Corbyn has attended events that also featured racists" which is true "and therefore you should vote for Boris Johnson" you'd get a very interesting reaction. They did also try "Jeremy Corbyn supports Pakistan seizing Kashmir" in Indian communities, but that one was too obscure to really work widespread. G1mby posted:Right - I don't think the media does give a poo poo, and that a lot of this was a stick to beat Corbyn with. I'm sympathising with therattle here - they thought it was tone deaf and I can see how it came across like that. A party that was managing to lead the narrative might have had better luck pushing the other anti-racist messages, but I agree that the media may well have not allowed that. It's possible both things can be true, that Corbyn just wasn't personally good at getting the point across (which left him vulnerable to the media) and the media had it out for him anyway. Could Big John have done better? Maybe, and I'm sorry we'll likely never get to find out. Or in this case when the press are focusing on antisemitism while denying other forms of structural racism exist. "All Lives Matter" is spectacularly poo poo because one of the first sentences written in the proto-USA started off "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" and was written by a man who enslaved over 600 Africans. All has often specifically excluded Black and BLM knows that.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:42
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Rental dispute update: My wife and I were living as lodgers under a licence agreement in the house of our landlord and we were evicted with a month's notice a bit over a month ago. Our landlord moved out in the course of our time renting but we never legally had exclusive occupancy of the unit. We were really good tenants who put a lot of time and effort into maintaining the property while the landlord was generally unresponsive and didn't maintain or fix many basic elements of the house that we repeatedly requested she fix (such as a heat pump, sink, and toilet), so we were surprised when after moving out she sent us a list of bullshit charges including £60 to clean the oven which we had cleaned to a reasonable standard, and £90 to replace her busted rear end vacuum that we had used a handful of times before buying our own. In the end of the email, she condescendingly claimed that we actually owed her more than our £300 deposit, but that she was willing to call it even. Because we were moving from the Midlands to Scotland, she clearly thought we wouldn't be willing to put the time and effort in to challenge her. After not responding to our texts and emails disputing these deductions, I sent a formal email notifying her that we would be filing a claim in small claims court. She sent a response within a couple of hours sending us the money along with what I can only describe as a tirade calling us nasty and dishonest and listing a bunch of tiny petty complaints that she was kind enough to not go after us for. Thanks for all the advice! Feels good to win one now and then 
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Nov 1, 2020 16:42
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England is reacting very different to Wales. The worst thing is it indicates that people are worried about the virus but only when its officially 'lockdown'. I thought they just didn't care but it's actually that they just forget it exists unless its hammered home.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:43
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Upwards of 70% of people in the UK think external reality is just what's on the news
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Nov 1, 2020 16:46
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The 'fun' thing is that now that Corbyn is no longer a threat, we are starting to get articles like this that attempt to do the same thing with Johnson, but that's not a new thing that just sprung up after the election, and the papers were curiously quiet about it before.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:10
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Guavanaut posted:The 'fun' thing is that now that Corbyn is no longer a threat, we are starting to get articles like this that attempt to do the same thing with Johnson, but that's not a new thing that just sprung up after the election, and the papers were curiously quiet about it before. Board of Deputies: while he is partnering up with Neo Nazis and fascists across Europe he did approve large amounts of arms sales to Israel so its impossible to tell if he's bad or not.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:12
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Gonzo McFee posted:Corbyn could have invented a time machine to go back and give Hitler a Diamond Cutter from the top of the Volkshalle and they'd have still called him antisemitic. There is no sating the press on the terms they set, only in abandoning all left wing policy and ideals could Corbyn be accepted. triangulating didn't help Corbyn with the inexhaustible Brexit press, either - didn't stop Corbyn from trying mightily. There are principled priorities and then there are priorities ultimately, one isn't trying to sway voters who will disagree no matter what, and Corbyn was willing to accept this on some topics but not others re: policies/ideals, anyway... Even once Corbynists commanded the party unchallenged, the policies never materialised. Labour party policy in 2017 on I/P was the two-state solution, secure Israel, land for peace, etc. Labour policy in 2019, after having consolidated the NEC, the committees, the unions, etc. with Corybn loyalists - is exactly the same. For all the ridiculous effort to stage a Palestinian nationalist rally at Conference with literally more Palestinian flags than Labour or UK flags and have those images plastered all over TV, the party changes nothing. not unusual as a party strategy - compare e.g. messaging a great deal more aggressively about resisting austerity, nationalization, etc. than actually in the policy book, betting that this would energize the base sufficiently that the enthusiasm turnout wave offsets the voters spooked by the radical positioning (not ridiculous: it worked in 2017). Those moderates are the ones voting on their council tax, or childcare tax credit, or whatever anyway, not the weird single issues, right...? the IHRA+ episode was instructive - lots of left-wing anxiety over preserving the freedom to advocate anti-Zionism in 2018, 70 years after Israel unilaterally declared independence - but after the pro-compromise Corbynists forced their outcome, it just fell off the radar. The promised wave of revolts by left-wing groups never materialises (where were they going to go? Chris Williamson?). So it was always about provoking the debate, the having of an argument, any argument, rather than a particular outcome of principle
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Nov 1, 2020 17:13
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Julio Cruz posted:how hard do you have to be clutching at straws when your main attack on Corbyn is “he didn’t condemn antisemitism, he condemned antisemitism and other forms of racism too A lot of us criticised BoJo for doing the exact same thing over Islamophobia. He opened an inquiry into "all forms of prejudice". If you have a specific problem with one type of prejudice it doesn't help to keep condeming 'all racism'. It comes off as dismissive. Bobby Deluxe posted:How could he have 'dealt with it better' exactly? Corbyn's downfall will always come back to his avoidance of conflict and lack of effective party management. Of course the deck was stacked against him, but many moments when he should've taken decisive action passed right by. A classic example is when Margaret Hodge literally shouted that he was a racist in the common's chamber. She should've lost the whip immediately, the paper's would've kicked off but the public would've supported it. Nobody would expect a leader to take that. By taking it it just leant credence to her claims. Similar with all the other backstabbers. Lay the blame on McNichol, get him out, any Labour MP that kicks up a fuss get them out. Eventually you have a united front of Labour people strongly denying the party is antisemitic, which would go most of the way to neutralising the attack. His desire to avoid splitting the party is what brought down the project, unfortunately.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:16
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I mean I don't think he truly ever imagined the PLP would blow their own feet off (and his as well) just to get back in control of the party. But then Corbyn was more or less entirely about providing the alternative option that article proposed, a third, better option. Hope. Naive sure, but honestly I don't think he could conceive the sheer number of people who would rather be in comfortable opposition. What's the point of that, we got into politics to change the world for the better right? Lads? Lads? Why are you pouring cement into my shoes?
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Nov 1, 2020 17:19
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jabby posted:A lot of us criticised BoJo for doing the exact same thing over Islamophobia. He opened an inquiry into "all forms of prejudice". If you have a specific problem with one type of prejudice it doesn't help to keep condeming 'all racism'. It comes off as dismissive.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:29
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I mean you gotta question the good faith of the entire scenario when Journalists are shamefacedly writing about how Jew hater Corbyn would open a second auchwitz if he was in goverment while the tories literally voting to defend Victor Orban from censure in the eu parliament for being insanely racist to Jews and Muslims to the point of committing human rights abuses, that apparently gets a free pass.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:31
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Regarde Aduck posted:England is reacting very different to Wales. The worst thing is it indicates that people are worried about the virus but only when its officially 'lockdown'. I thought they just didn't care but it's actually that they just forget it exists unless its hammered home. looking forward to this is england 20 and it being a bleak re-enactment of our dire times
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Nov 1, 2020 17:31
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Mebh posted:I mean I don't think he truly ever imagined the PLP would blow their own feet off (and his as well) just to get back in control of the party. It is easy to look back in hindsight. In reality things were really unstable and 2017 gave everyone hope Corbyn could actually pull it off. The alternative (that I now wish he'd gone for) would've required at least one severe election defeat as half the PLP are deselected and actively run sabotage. Then it would've been up to the left to try and rebuilt the party against the entire media. Maybe it wouldn't have worked either, but if we ever take over again I hope it's the plan.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:37
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Tbh I'm glad Corbyn was beaten to death with the antisemitism stick cuz it is a particularly insidious form of racism and now people are much more aware of it than before
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Nov 1, 2020 17:38
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Drone_Fragger posted:I mean you gotta question the good faith of the entire scenario when Journalists are shamefacedly writing about how Jew hater Corbyn would open a second auchwitz if he was in goverment while the tories literally voting to defend Victor Orban from censure in the eu parliament for being insanely racist to Jews and Muslims to the point of committing human rights abuses, that apparently gets a free pass. Andrew Neil, friend of Epstien and chairman of the Spectator which is a magazine most famous for employing literal fascists to write pieces on how the Nazis were very brave on D Day, interviewed Rod Liddle, a man most famous for being unapologetically racist and punching his pregnant girlfriend, about Jeremy Corbyn being a racist. They don't care. They know they own the media and they're making fun of you.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:39
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https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1322928801123368960?s=20
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Nov 1, 2020 17:46
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:I assume that the availability of slots is heavily dependent on where you live, because for my postcode Tesco, Sainsbury's and Morrisons had none whatsoever and I managed to get the very last one that Asda had. Check out the Morrison’s food boxes, countrywide delivery and you can pick your frequency of delivery, I know it’s not ideal but it’s been beating the delivery postcode lottery, and also people like my dad who got priority slots which was fair, but abused them so he was getting three deliveries a week and getting it over the £40 threshold with expensive wines.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:46
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Oop here’s some fun thing, https://twitter.com/BarDisciple/status/1322914715325136897
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Nov 1, 2020 17:49
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^^^ Lovely. ="forkboy84" post="509460853"] gently caress me. That is some statement. I don't think you understand at all why All Lives Matter is a problem. But then I struggle to understand how you are capable of remembering to breathe. [/quote] Others have been able to easily grasp the point I was making. It wasn’t a direct equivalence or intended as such. That’s why I qualified it with “a bit”. For the avoidance of doubt I was not suggesting an equivalence between AS in the UK and the structural, pervasive racism faced by most other ethnic minorities, especially black and Asian. Jews are not, for example, grossly underrepresented in the professions and media. I fully understand why All Lives Matter is a problem and how reprehensible it is.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:52
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dig up anyway why was yaxley-lennon arrested? and lol at him pissing and moaning about the police "breaking his arm"
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Nov 1, 2020 17:55
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this Jeremy Corbyn chap, criticising Israel, you have to see how to some Jews that does look a bit like Hitler's death machine sweeping across Europe on a campaign of extermination, yes? no no that's not a direct comparison, I said "a bit", but
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Nov 1, 2020 17:56
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Lol how close to admitting its all a grift
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Nov 1, 2020 17:56
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therattle posted:Others have been able to easily grasp the point I was making. Your point is basically gaslighting
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Nov 1, 2020 17:57
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:dig up Hilarious comedy. He organised a thing at speakers corner for 60 of his fash mates and one guy wearing a Union Jack suit. He turns up late which gives the filth time to organise and as soon as he shows he gets kettled one way and his “security” get kettled another and then they hauled him off for breaking covid gathering laws.
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Nov 1, 2020 17:58
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excellent also I'm still lolling at "jewish people are not underrepresented in the media, wonk"
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Nov 1, 2020 18:02
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If we were in positions of responsibility, we'd be paid to act responsibly, so we would. But we aren't, so we won't. Journalism isn't a position of responsibility, we just argue these positions for sport. Anyone who actually does what we say is missing the point.
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Nov 1, 2020 18:05
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therattle posted:^^^ Lovely. mate you need help
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Nov 1, 2020 18:10
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ronya posted:one goes to war with the enemies one has, not the enemies one wishes one had, so to speak They give the same answer? The difference is McDonnell is giving prepared remarks with no questions whereas Corbyn is in a live interview where the journalist is trying to set up a 'do you condemn the IRA?' gotcha over and over. What answer do you think Corbyn should have given in that situation? Corbyn's record of support for the IRA is clear; he can either condemn (follow on gotchas: are you ashamed of your past support? are you lying to the British people in a vain attempt to get elected?); refuse to condemn ('Jeremy Cronby loves the IRA'); or end the call ('Jeremy Cronby loves the IRA' but without an on the record and up to date quote to boot). Seems like option 3 is the only way to go?
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Nov 1, 2020 18:12
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So close to getting it It's really telling that even Steve Baker is supporting lockdown now
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Nov 1, 2020 18:14
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Gonzo McFee posted:Corbyn could have invented a time machine to go back and give Hitler a Diamond Cutter from the top of the Volkshalle and they'd have still called him antisemitic. Given that in order for him to do that he would have first have to have caused the Nazis to win the war, since in our reality this place was never built, that would be, uh, kind of fair enough to be honest.
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Nov 1, 2020 18:16
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Endjinneer posted:If we were in positions of responsibility, we'd be paid to act responsibly, so we would. But we aren't, so we won't. Journalism isn't a position of responsibility, we just argue these positions for sport. Anyone who actually does what we say is missing the point. The problem with journalists is that the good ones put themselves in the line of fire for their job and get shot for their troubles. The poo poo ones kick back and write poo poo. I think the solution is to make all journalists take at least one tour in a warzone/humanitarian crisis/natural disaster area to build character before they're allowed to become pundits.
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Nov 1, 2020 18:25
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Honestly the idea that Corbyn is some sort of politically useless stick in the mud is bizarre. He's just nudged Sir Forensic into wiping 7pts off his precious leadership favourability ratings in 24hrs in exchange for a constituency seat that A. he might hold as an an independent, B. will likely be retiring from at the next election and C. could well be reinstated to anyway. In exchange SCG/UNITE etc are in negotiation with the leadership to extract concessions to call off the dogs. It's very very far from a grand victory but he's played a extremely weak hand as best as could be hoped. Kier may have all the power now but he also has far far more to lose. Corbyn is a spent force, they've just expended the last piece of leverage they had over him. What else are they going to do; call him a useless racist in the national press? A solid 25% or more of the labour membership + god knows how many voters will still follow him however; does Kier really want him outside instructing us all to piss in?
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Nov 1, 2020 18:26
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Did did I just read the “there are lots of Jews in entertainment ergo they have power an influence” argument? Because it’s been a while, last heard it maybe 2002?
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Nov 1, 2020 18:27
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learnincurve posted:Did did I just read the “there are lots of Jews in entertainment ergo they have power an influence” argument? Because it’s been a while, last heard it maybe 2002? Come now, you're on Twitter, you must have come across it sometime in the past three to five seconds or so. Also I'll check out those food boxes, cheers.
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Nov 1, 2020 18:32
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Anyway you slice it Corbyn retains a huge following and has very little to lose anymore. If i was in the LOTO office i would be being extremely careful to keep him on-side; sign of how inept Kier and the Gordon Brown D-teamers that advise him are tbh. Might just be wishful thinking but my gut says Kier truly believes he can be PM but those around him are looking at a roadmap that has him falling short on about 270 seats if he wins back the red wall and six month in polling that has him neck-and-neck with the most divisive PM of modern times and who's just made it illegal for us all to see our friends and family. They're quietly looking to secure the party for their faction so they can be assured of their position in the next go round.
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Nov 1, 2020 18:35
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