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Payndz posted:It's kind of amusing how Star Trek went from "How does the warp drive work? Very well, thank you" to having the entire premise of a season based on knowledge of the exact functioning of its fictional FTL technology. I mean, it hasn't really though. I don't think Discovery has actually said anything about what dilithium does, it's just "all the space gas blew up". All the stuff about matter / anti-matter reactions have been limited to this thread.
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Nov 2, 2020 11:54
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Alchenar posted:They should just gather the TNG cast to make 'Star Trek: Agreed.
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Nov 2, 2020 12:03
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Spanish Matlock posted:I think the significance was that he addressed her by title, which she hadn't been for a year. It wasn't exactly well communicated. Kind of a don't show don't tell thing. I think it was more the fact that he said 'welcome back,' and I think she hadn't really considered she might have to give up her new life to come back onto the crew.
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Nov 2, 2020 12:28
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enki42 posted:I mean, it hasn't really though. I don't think Discovery has actually said anything about what dilithium does, it's just "all the space gas blew up". All the stuff about matter / anti-matter reactions have been limited to this thread. The closest thing was that they clarified that what actually happened was that it went inert, which meant that all of the warp cores instantly lost control and went boom-boom.
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Nov 2, 2020 12:40
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Discovery also needs us to not say "Wait, the matter-antimatter reaction is how you get the power to do the reality-bending stuff the warp core does, it's not the fundamental basis of warp" but I'm cool with that, it's always been ambiguous what's exactly going on in the big blue glowy thing.
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Nov 2, 2020 14:42
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Dilithium is basically the screwdriver in the Demon Core incident Edit: Which would imply there’s a safer way to regulate matter/antimatter reactions and also plays into that old joke about other alien races being terrified of humans because of how flippantly dangerous we are. 
Retrowave Joe fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Nov 2, 2020 |
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Nov 2, 2020 16:13
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Retrowave Joe posted:Dilithium is basically the screwdriver in the Demon Core incident It also explains why the majority of races that bother going into starfleet are warrior races (klingons), pseudoimmortals (trill), and low-individuality dorks (vulcans)
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Nov 2, 2020 16:43
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MikeJF posted:I dunno it's totally possible that they're just going to rebuild the federation except now it runs on magic mushrooms. It would be interesting to see the magic mushroom drive be replicated but I think an intended element of Stamet's character is that he is the only one able to interface with the drive. Penitent fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Nov 2, 2020 |
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Nov 2, 2020 21:48
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Penitent posted:It would be interesting to see the magic mushroom drive be replicated but I think an intended element of Stamet's character is that he is the only one able to interface with the drive. He is the first guild navigator and burnham is going to launch her buttering jihad to unite the galaxy E: phone autocorrect did that and I'm not changing it
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Nov 2, 2020 21:57
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buttering jihad lmao
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Nov 3, 2020 00:27
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Crusader posted:buttering jihad lmao I don't know Dune, but I recognized the term "guild navigator" so I looked this up. That's a helluvan autocorrect. FE: lol SwiftKey doesn't know "autocorrect." I got as far as typing the second R and it was suggesting autocross and autocratic, then nothing after that.
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Nov 3, 2020 01:47
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nine-gear crow posted:I'm sure Bernd Schneider is writing some giant article about it for Ex Astris Scientia as we speak, and/or throwing something heavy at the closest wall in a fit of nerdrage. The "Commercial Chairs in Star Trek" page is one of my favourite pieces of web content ever.
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Nov 3, 2020 02:04
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I Can't Believe It's Not Buddislam
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Nov 3, 2020 02:07
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Phylodox posted:Because alien raiders are more frightening and intimidating than a bunch of scared, starving, desperate miners. Posing as alien raiders is a lot smarter than advertising that you come from someplace that you can literally see with the naked eye from the surface of the planet you're raiding.
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Nov 3, 2020 02:50
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The whole "why didn't Earth have communications with them, etc" holds up less on rewatch. When Earth went isolationist, they went full blown "just the planet Earth" isolationist. Not sure if this includes the moon, but they seemed pretty done with leaving the direct orbit of their planet. Bug man says that Titan's communications failed, which is why they sent the ship that got blasted on. Earth security lady was taken aback by hearing the colony blew up. It seems that even Earth's closest colonies got the shaft, because once Earth went in on itself it seems everyone went their separate ways. This doesn't mean Earth is straight up xenophobic though, because there was definitely a Tellarite in the security team, and Admiral Deadman either was a Trill or knew a Trill. Anyways, when bug man tells Earth security lady the whole spiel about poo poo going south on Titan, them trying to get in touch with Earth and then it not going so well, she has a real look of "oh poo poo, we screwed these guys either because we forgot about them or didn't care to check up on them". That's the moment in the Star Trek episode where the Captain has of course mostly solved the conflict between two grouchy factions. So I don't think it was a matter of Earth not being able to contact Titan, they just never bothered to.
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Nov 3, 2020 03:42
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The EDF captain did mention that there had been repeated attacks on Earth and it's ships and that Wen's group was just the latest and most persistent, I assumed by the time Titan had to send a ship there asking for help after at least decades of being independent of each other that Earth was already in full aggressive response mode to anyone looking their way which is why they just blew them out of the sky
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Nov 3, 2020 04:01
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The Golden Gael posted:This doesn't mean Earth is straight up xenophobic though, because there was definitely a Tellarite in the security team, and Admiral Deadman either was a Trill or knew a Trill. I would argue they're xenophobic, just in a nationalist way that doesn't include racism (which isn't really something there's much of an analogue to in modern day reality right now). It's more about being Of Earth than being Human, which is possible because Earth has hosted huge numbers of aliens for a thousand years by this point. Well, okay, actually, nah, because the raiders being human was a big difference. Maybe it's more of a The Ones On Earth Are The Right Aliens. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 07:14
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I guess what about like, Mars and Venus and the other theoretically habitable planets in the solar system? I might have seen the main plot point more kindly if there were colonies on those planets that Earth was in conflict with but like, how often are you getting raided from outside the system in this dilithium-less new economy? Lot of people schlepping all the way to earth to gently caress with you? It just still seems dumb for there to be like, only two active colonies in the Sol system regardless. This again feels like a good idea that doesn't really mesh with the Star Trek universe.
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Nov 3, 2020 07:49
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From the way that they talked about self sufficient and split off, I wouldn't be surprised if most of Sol's in-system colonies just fell back to Earth in the immediate time after the Burn, and Titan was the only one that said 'nah gently caress you'. It makes sense to me - if your day-to-day life is intrinsically dependent on technology and most of the technology in the universe just spontaneously blew up, and what few ships remain aren't enough to guarantee being able to keep you supply, you bet your arse I'm heading back to the nice shiny blue planet where you don't suffocate if something goes wrong. It's probably a pattern repeated across the entire galaxy. Mars would've been the best other candidate to keep going, but assuming it was a shipyard again the planet could easily have been decimated to the point of abandonment. Venus we don't really know much about, or if it had even been terraformed to the point of non-technological habitability. (Hell, if we find life I could see the humanity of the show making the decision not to.) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 07:54
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MikeJF posted:From the way that they talked about self sufficient and split off, I wouldn't be surprised if most of Sol's colonies just moved back to Earth in the immediate time after the Burn, where you don't suffocate if something goes wrong, and Titan was the only one that said 'nah gently caress you'. Mars would've been the best other candidate to keep going, but assuming it was a shipyard again the planet could easily have been decimated to the point of abandonment. No one travels at warp in a shipyard so it'll have been largely unaffected, other than being rendered less useful as there isn't a demand for interstellar ships anymore.
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Nov 3, 2020 08:07
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MikeJF posted:From the way that they talked about self sufficient and split off, I wouldn't be surprised if most of Sol's in-system colonies just fell back to Earth in the immediate time after the Burn, and Titan was the only one that said 'nah gently caress you'. It makes sense to me - if your day-to-day life is intrinsically dependent on technology and most of the technology in the universe just spontaneously blew up, and what few ships remain aren't enough to guarantee being able to keep you supply, you bet your arse I'm heading back to the nice shiny blue planet where you don't suffocate if something goes wrong. It's probably a pattern repeated across the entire galaxy. "Welp, it took a while, but we finally got everything back to the way it was before that AI attacked us." *All warp cores everywhere explode* "GOD drat IT!"
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Nov 3, 2020 08:08
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pik_d posted:No one travels at warp in a shipyard so it'll have been largely unaffected, other than being rendered less useful as there isn't a demand for interstellar ships anymore. It wasn't ships at warp, that was Saru messing up and leaking suspicions. It was any active matter/antimatter reactor that was operating, even idling. All the shuttles, all the cores the shipyard might have been testing, any ship that had docked or landed but hadn't gone into full power-down. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 08:09
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You see this in the first episode when they visit the station and it has a giant hole in the side of it. One thing about LDS that occurred to me, they show off Landru as an example of the Federation fixing problems like that in the short term but then never following up on them with long term solutions. But in the TOS episode they left behind some crew members trained to help that planet in the long term so I'm don't think that was a good example tbh.
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Nov 3, 2020 11:22
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I assumed they stayed long enough to update the big "it has been __ months since a Red Hour" sign to the Starfleet-acceptable minimum and then bounced - LDS is what, 120 years later?
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Nov 3, 2020 15:10
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Every time Discovery flips and jumps I hear the sound of Yoshi ground pounding in my mind
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Nov 3, 2020 16:59
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This was a talkative and (by this show’s standards) fairly serious-minded episode. I felt it was better structured and better written than the run of the mill without being especially good. The main plot conflict takes a backseat to character beats without being irrelevant to it, and that’s fine. If the whole season ends up being about how you can go back to people who have burned you again and again and try to move forward, that will be much better than the big ideas this show has previously tried to depict. The more this show explains about the Burn, the less I understand it. In this episode it’s mentioned that the dilithium ran out and the feds looked for alternative fuel sources but couldn’t get them to work, mentioned again that all the ships with dilithium in them exploded, and then implied that only the ships that were at warp at the time of the Burn exploded. The last implication stems from Saru poorly bullshitting, but if he’s wrong, that could and should have been established too. I’m sure the show has more to say on this since they obviously want it to be a big season mystery, but the signs aren’t particularly good so far. No doubt the things Michael learned offscreen over the past year will turn out to be suspiciously plot relevant. Where was Nhan this last episode? Kind of odd that the security chief doesn’t have anything to do or say about the whole ship getting boarded and getting picked over by cops. It’s like that TNG episode where Riker gains godlike powers and Troi, the character closest to him, is just...not around. What, did she have the day off? Show continues to take an oddly relaxed attitude to insubordination. At least this time Mike got a talking-to, a pretty reasonable one I thought. Not a great audition for XO, but whatever, they let a cannibal on the bridge every week. Like their joy at Michael’s return last week, the bridge crew’s joy at a big tree felt a little insubstantial. We just don’t really know these guys. They’re reduced to reminiscing about how they all sat under the same tree because precisely the only thing we know they have in common is they all went to Starfleet Academy. Is nobody overwhelmed by the sight of a completely different earth to what they’ve ever known? Did anyone go anywhere else? I thought this would have been a good opportunity to explore their characters a bit, but the scene’s just good-natured fluff really. Enterprise had a lot of scenes like this, which are intended to be charming and personable, but don’t mean much. The scene with Tilly and Burnham discussing how many people have died was better, though again, a bit undercut because they’re just faceless casualties arbitrarily sacrificed to give Tilly and Burnham something to talk about. For once, I found both Tilly and Burnham believable in this scene, with the exception of a line or two that you can tell were written with upvotes in mind. I think that despite its problems, it would be better if the show had more scenes like this and, especially, Saru and Michael’s final conversation, devoted to examining the actual implications of what the characters have done. The girl genius is fairly tedious. Tilly fuming about how she’s already the girl genius on the show wasn’t very funny either, although it had that potential.
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Nov 4, 2020 16:45
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The Teen Genius is fine in my books given it's less 'oh my god they're so precocious and special!' Wesley-style and more 'they're smart because they have a millennia-old gut slug'. The actor plays the combination of knowing-more-than-everyone and totally-unsure-about-what-they're-doing well, and really bounced well off Stamets.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 16:56
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MikeJF posted:The Teen Genius is fine in my books given it's less 'oh my god they're so precocious and special!' Wesley-style and more 'they're smart because they have a millennia-old gut slug'. The actor plays the combination of knowing-more-than-everyone and totally-unsure-about-what-they're-doing well, and really bounced well off Stamets. She’s not quite as snotty as Wesley, I guess, but it’s a clear case of the writers wanting you to like the character for being special and quirky so every other character fawns over her, even though it doesn’t really make sense. Even early TNG realized that Wesley was annoying and had Picard being unable to stand him, or had him get himself in deep poo poo, or get temporarily stabbed to death by aliens. Granted there’s time for all that tempering to happen. In this episode, she intruded onto the ship as a representative of a foreign power and started on her own initiative to sabotage poo poo in a situation that could have easily escalated to a shooting war, and in fact did, though only for a minute or two. She put everyone in danger so...they cozy up to her and tell her all about how the magic engines work, and lo and behold she’s plot-special and actually not a teen but a thousand-year-old Starfleet admiral (why didn’t she just take a moment to tell them this up front?) and they’ve unlocked the path to the next episode. Like okay, that’s the story they wanted to tell, but it’s the kind of forced and nonsensical thing Disco does a lot, and I find it tedious.
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Nov 4, 2020 17:24
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skasion posted:actually not a teen but a thousand-year-old Starfleet admiral (why didn’t she just take a moment to tell them this up front?) Because nothing about Discovery made sense in light of what Adira recognised on the ship. The EDF could vaguely smell bullshit but thanks to Trill memories Adira could straight up recognise that this was an impossible brand new 23rd century ship with some crazy experimental tech on it. Discovery was were clearly lying through their teeth. So Adira bought time to try to figure out if they could trust these people, because even though Discovery was lying, Adira was still desperate to find someone with Starfleet they could join to reconnect with the Federation and Disco was the only bet in a very long time. Stamets telling them about the drive looked pretty obviously like a calculated move to me: Adira knew enough to screw Discovery, they needed to win them over, and his friendly dad attitude in that scene kinda seemed like a deliberate attitude designed to target to a young, isolated and unsure person. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 17:43
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I still feel like it was really dumb on Stamets’ part to just immediately tell her the truth with how hostile the UE people were
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Nov 4, 2020 18:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:I still feel like it was really dumb on Stamets’ part to just immediately tell her the truth with how hostile the UE people were Perfectly in keeping with his character? Also yes.
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Nov 4, 2020 19:24
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Adira's a little bit weird in that the producers made a huge deal about an enby character on the show, but then in the episode we're using female pronouns and no attempt at correction. I'm guessing they're trying to do a coming out story where Adira gets more in tune with the Tal symbiote and realises they're non-binary, but that could've been included in the press stuff. Edit: I wish English had a way to differentiate between the plural 'they' and gender-neutral 'they'. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 22:16
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Gaz-L posted:Adira's a little bit weird in that the producers made a huge deal about an enby character on the show, but then in the episode we're using female pronouns and no attempt at correction. I'm guessing they're trying to do a coming out story where Adira gets more in tune with the Tal symbiote and realises they're non-binary, but that could've been included in the press stuff.
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Nov 4, 2020 22:29
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Blu del Barrio is the actor and the are NB, there's a trans actor that's gonna show up later on too.Gaz-L posted:Adira's a little bit weird in that the producers made a huge deal about an enby character on the show, but then in the episode we're using female pronouns and no attempt at correction. I'm guessing they're trying to do a coming out story where Adira gets more in tune with the Tal symbiote and realises they're non-binary, but that could've been included in the press stuff. They didn't make a huge deal about it? It was news for a day on a couple of websites, and AFAIK they never actually mentioned that the character is NB, only the actor. If they're OK with playing a gendered character I don't really see a problem. e: I guess the article headlines do say "character" not "actor," so you're right, it is kind of odd that they're gendering the character like that. You'd think the actor would have something to say about that? e2: https://www.glaad.org/blog/meet-star-trek-discoverys-blu-del-barrio this interview they mention that Adira is choosing not to reveal their NB status to the crew yet, so presumably that's why everyone used female pronouns around them. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 22:54
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The confusion about the new characters is also compounded by the fact that the trans actor is actually playing a Trill, I believe. I assume we're meeting them in the next episode when Michael and Adira go there.
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Nov 5, 2020 01:17
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well at least there's precedent  
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Nov 5, 2020 01:19
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The Jadzia character is kind of lame in retrospect because it was just Curzon but lol a woman now. It would make more sense if some aspects of other hosts came out, but everything Jadzia did was because it was something Curzon liked. I feel like they didn't really know what to do with her at the beginning so just make it obvious that she has had a past life by making her just be Sisko's old friend but a woman.
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Nov 5, 2020 01:24
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FlamingLiberal posted:I still feel like it was really dumb on Stamets’ part to just immediately tell her the truth with how hostile the UE people were There's an exchange where Stamets and Tilly conclude that Adira was non hostile based on her sabotage actively targeting the other EDF people rather than the ship, combined with her impossible knowledge of a 900+ year old design and immediate noticing and fascination of the spore drive tech. Telling her the truth was a risk, but one that made sense.
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Nov 5, 2020 01:25
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Also, with Adira's worm being old enough to recognize old tech, do you think they will have a wink wink nod nod character be a secret Trill in Strange New Worlds? Or maybe throw one into Lower Decks. With all these Star Trek shows being around right now all taking place in different times, it would be cool to have one character so to speak that is in all of them.
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Nov 5, 2020 01:28
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Cojawfee posted:The Jadzia character is kind of lame in retrospect because it was just Curzon but lol a woman now. It would make more sense if some aspects of other hosts came out, but everything Jadzia did was because it was something Curzon liked. I feel like they didn't really know what to do with her at the beginning so just make it obvious that she has had a past life by making her just be Sisko's old friend but a woman. That's a totally valid criticism, I just like that meme  Cojawfee posted:Also, with Adira's worm being old enough to recognize old tech, do you think they will have a wink wink nod nod character be a secret Trill in Strange New Worlds? Or maybe throw one into Lower Decks. With all these Star Trek shows being around right now all taking place in different times, it would be cool to have one character so to speak that is in all of them.  
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Nov 5, 2020 01:30
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