|
FacelessVoid posted:veganism started from the principle of do the least harm. not only eat XYZ foods no matter what. don't worry about satisfying someone else's rules and just follow your conscience. it's not complicated. Exactly, the reason why I subscribe to the Vegan Society's definition of veganism is because it describes my moral position, not the other way around.
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 19:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 00:15 |
|
|
actually the real reason i'm vegan is because i absolutely hate plants and i want them to suffer
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 19:46
|
|
|
gently caress plants
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 19:53
|
|
|
Bot 02 posted:actually the real reason i'm vegan is because i absolutely hate plants and i want them to suffer I’m vegan because I like to tell people I’m vegan, ps I’m vegan
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 19:57
|
|
|
I'm vegan because my father was a goat
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 20:04
|
|
|
roasted and charred veggies are my favorite way to add umami to traditional dishes that normally rely on meat for it. seaweed or soy sauce is also good but you have to be careful because they can really impact the flavor.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 20:05
|
|
|
i plan on doing a stuffed and roasted squash for thanksgiving this year. squash rules tofurkey drools.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 20:09
|
|
|
basically this guy's recipe minus the half ton of butter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxOIsfT-HiI
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
Bot 02 posted:I gotta be honest, when it comes to irrelevant edge cases I have actually never heard the "what about corals" one before. I tried to go vegan but i had no idea how hard it was gonna be to stop eating coral
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:22
|
|
|
I think it's bad to kill animals so I'm as vegetarian as I can be while being poor as poo poo. I'll never be vegan though because vegan food is mad expensive and lentils are the devil's work
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:I tried to go vegan but i had no idea how hard it was gonna be to stop eating coral Coral is vegan, anyone who says otherwise is a shill for the ocean lobby
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:28
|
|
|
Crane Fist posted:I think it's bad to kill animals so I'm as vegetarian as I can be while being poor as poo poo. I'll never be vegan though because vegan food is mad expensive and lentils are the devil's work Is this a regional thing? Where I'm from, all the vegan staples (grains, vegetables, legumes) are all cheap as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:45
|
|
|
gay_crimes posted:lmao at people that buy their food from the grocery store cooking up hypothetical scenarios that they will never be in to justify factory farming it owns
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:52
|
|
|
Crane Fist posted:I think it's bad to kill animals so I'm as vegetarian as I can be while being poor as poo poo. I'll never be vegan though because vegan food is mad expensive and lentils are the devil's work legumes grains and vegetables are famously considerably more expensive than things like meat, cheese, fish etc
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:55
|
|
|
Bot 02 posted:Is this a regional thing? Where I'm from, all the vegan staples (grains, vegetables, legumes) are all cheap as poo poo. in almost every case its just nonsense predicated on pretending that in order to eat a vegan diet you are obligated to buy expensive specialty processed goods
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:57
|
|
|
you know what is fun vegan naked brutality w/ permadeath runs in rimworld, especially in a jungle biome
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:00
|
|
|
or just vegan naked brutality, but not in rimworld
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:01
|
|
|
Bot 02 posted:Is this a regional thing? Where I'm from, all the vegan staples (grains, vegetables, legumes) are all cheap as poo poo. It absolutely is. Where I am, grains are cheap and plentiful, as are root vegetables, but legumes are real expensive. FacelessVoid posted:veganism started from the principle of do the least harm. not only eat XYZ foods no matter what. don't worry about satisfying someone else's rules and just follow your conscience. it's not complicated. Nah, veganism started from the principle of "I absolutely can't deal with killing animals and neither should anyone else". Look it up if you care. It wasn't even possible to survive as a vegan before 1955. Veganism is new, unlike vegetarianism, because we've been eating animals for five hundred thousand years but it turns out that while we don't have the bits to be vegan doesn't mean we have to kill the animals to get what we need. It's that complex stomach anatomy of ruminants that plays the biggest role here... well, that and famines. The cleanest way I've ever seen a diet summarized was "I don't eat anything with eyes". I point out inconsistencies with skill and dedication and even I couldn't pick that one apart.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:01
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:It absolutely is. Where I am, grains are cheap and plentiful, as are root vegetables, but legumes are real expensive. al-ma'arri was allegedly vegan in the 11th century
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:03
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:It absolutely is. Where I am, grains are cheap and plentiful, as are root vegetables, but legumes are real expensive. No potatoes???
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:04
|
|
|
there is like two thousand years of history of veganism in asia
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:13
|
|
|
the idea that 'actually until 1955 everyone had to eat meat to survive' is so hilariously ahistorical i dont even know how to begin adressing it
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:13
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:It absolutely is. Where I am, grains are cheap and plentiful, as are root vegetables, but legumes are real expensive. I, too, point out inconsistencies with skill and dedication. I'm a true master, in the art of debating online.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
It's because the meat and dairy industry is incredibly wealthy and powerful and they get you young. I had someone recently who didn't know things like almond/soy/oat milk had vitamins and minerals in it (natural and enriched) like they just thought that these things were only in cows milk and if you didn't have milk at least once a day your bones would break
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
Well, no, there isn't. There's two thousand years of history of vegetarianism. You didn't have to eat meat. I said that. You needed to get your b12 from somewhere, and the sources that aren't animal byproducts are extremely regional, and we had no idea what they were until 1955. The cure used to be liver. Turns out cheese also works. Now we can just brew it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:Well, no, there isn't. There's two thousand years of history of vegetarianism. they got b12 from dirt in vegetables and water which we cant do anymore because the earth is poisoned
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:25
|
|
|
baw posted:they got b12 from dirt in vegetables and water which we cant do anymore because the earth is poisoned Hah, post/av combo. But no, the concept of avoiding harming animals is ancient. The concept of avoiding any byproducts was invented by Joe Vegan, a carpenter that died in 2005.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:32
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:Well, no, there isn't. There's two thousand years of history of vegetarianism. luckily as has repeatedly b een pointed out in this thread the most common definition of veganism is avoiding the consumption of animal products and minimizing harm to animals to the greatest practicable extent
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:35
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:Hah, post/av combo. "do not desire as food the flesh of slaughtered animals / Or the white milk of mothers who intended its pure draught / for their young" - al-ma'arri in the 11th century also he was anti-natalist because he thought it was better to never be born than to face the horrors of the world, and was also critical of religious dogma (including islam) and wrote a book that is basically like dante's divine comedy for his time and place. or more accurately, the divien comedy is basically the epistle of forgiveness of 14th century florence. cool guy all around baw has issued a correction as of 23:38 on Nov 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:36
|
|
|
discussing veganism is always such an excelent example of people making the 'AH HA you arent following your own beliefs exactly to the letter in every single case! owned!' which is only a valid argument if you accept that in fact those beliefs are worth practicing exactly to the letter in every case. if your point is people fail to live up to their own ideals, well, yeah, no poo poo
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:36
|
|
|
Crumbskull posted:discussing veganism is always such an excelent example of people making the 'AH HA you arent following your own beliefs exactly to the letter in every single case! owned!' which is only a valid argument if you accept that in fact those beliefs are worth practicing exactly to the letter in every case. if your point is people fail to live up to their own ideals, well, yeah, no poo poo My point is that animals will die no matter what we do as a result of humanity's actions. There is no more land to expand to. We could choose now which animals we prioritize and why. Or we can just keep arguing about absolute lines built on hard moral stances instead of practical impact and do absolutely nothing to slow down capitalism doing what it does. We're going to do the latter anyway. I know.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:50
|
|
|
Ancient hominid diets--baring some regional exceptions like coasts and very high latitudes--were pretty close to modern day chimpanzees which are 97% plant based. We only think of cave men eating lots of meat because stuff like bones are particularly well preserved. However, evidence from stools suggests a primarily plant based diet. The paleo diet is one of the stupidest fads ever. Veganism is the closest to a true "paleo" diet. Unfortunately my dad has been sucker into believing one of these fad diets that denounces grains and beans. Despite grains being consumed hundreds of thousands of years ago.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:56
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:My point is that animals will die no matter what we do as a result of humanity's actions. There is no more land to expand to. its bad point though, there is arable land not currently under production and it would not take more land under production to replace animal agriculture. im specifically saying that your hard line moral stance thing is a canard because people in this thread have repeatedly said that the idea is to minimize animal consumption and harm to the greatest extent practicable, not to mention the fact that any of our individual consumption behavior has no systemic effect whatsoever. me personally eating a plant based diet has not in anyway prevented me from organizing to 'slow down capitalism' and was actually an outgrowth of that work that has further embedded left practice and theory into my daily life. what do you mean 'what animals we prioritize'?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:57
|
|
|
FacelessVoid posted:Ancient hominid diets--baring some regional exceptions like coasts and very high latitudes--were pretty close to modern day chimpanzees which are 97% plant based. We only think of cave men eating lots of meat because stuff like bones are particularly well preserved. However, evidence from stools suggests a primarily plant based diet. so youre telling me caveman poop is vegan
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 23:58
|
|
|
Crumbskull posted:its bad point though, there is arable land not currently under production and it would not take more land under production to replace animal agriculture. im specifically saying that your hard line moral stance thing is a canard because people in this thread have repeatedly said that the idea is to minimize animal consumption and harm to the greatest extent practicable, not to mention the fact that any of our individual consumption behavior has no systemic effect whatsoever. me personally eating a plant based diet has not in anyway prevented me from organizing to 'slow down capitalism' and was actually an outgrowth of that work that has further embedded left practice and theory into my daily life. We're facing the biggest loss of arable land, ever, starting ten years ago.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2020 00:01
|
|
|
baw posted:so youre telling me caveman poop is vegan only if the caveman consents
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2020 00:01
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:We're facing the biggest loss of arable land, ever, starting ten years ago. oh, ok i see what you mean then. can you explain how you believe animal agriculture reduces the amount of land required for ag production? are you talking strictly about bugs and fish or something?
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2020 00:02
|
|
|
also for the record its chill if your life makes it impossible or even prohibitively difficult for you to eat a primarily plant based diet, who cares imo. doesn't invalidate the case for massively shifting the global food system in that direction (arguably strengthens it unless you have like ehlers danloss or something)
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2020 00:05
|
|
|
Crumbskull posted:oh, ok i see what you mean then. can you explain how you believe animal agriculture reduces the amount of land required for ag production? are you talking strictly about bugs and fish or something? I'm talking strictly about bugs and fish (and even then, just the filter feeders who convert algae to human-accessible energy), apart from the ruminant component required for all our stupid non-genetically-engineered food plants to thrive in soil. Also the whole problem where we grow grass to get the perennial roots and then don't convert that to human-edible food. In the latter case we don't actually have to do anything to the animals, we can just let them eat and poo poo and grow old and live their lives, but it is leaving very useful nutrients on the table.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2020 00:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 00:15 |
|
|
ok, yeah i actually basically agree then although im not following the stuff about grass, ruminants for food productions are not meaningfully maintaining prairie systems currently? or do you just mean that there is otherwise unarable land that could have ruminants on it?
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2020 00:08
|
|