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Like, people didn't vote for Trump because he was an unknown. They voted for him because they liked him.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:31
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John Wick of Dogs posted:So right now we are at the point where if all the states stayed how they are, Biden has 270 right? Sure seems like it. https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1323990204353552391 Needle Man at least seems to like Biden's chances at taking 270. Roger Explosion posted:Mates, Trump's losing. That's Step #1 on the road to unfucking the US. Try being a tad more positive, eh? There's a lot of lingering questions about the future due to how much closer this was than anyone expected. I think it's reasonable for us to be worried.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:31
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:fwiw, i think the idea of just running a candidate that gives people what they need is seductive because it lets you rehabilitate a large segment of the american public instead of having to grapple with who they are. i think one of the best features of progressive ideology in general is a fundamental respect for the individual and faith in eventual progress, but i find that hard to reconcile with data that shows, for example, that young hispanic men are voting for trump explicitly because they like how he gets to speak down to women. if thats true then the best case of running the progressive issues candidate is that a group of voters who still hates women decides to vote for a candidate who can help them out of self-interest... but still hate women the day after the election. probably the more cynical take is the future of politics is the democratic party picking amongst demographic groups which hold objectively horrid opinions and hoping they can temporarily buy their votes in exchange for material gain. on one hand i guess its good when things get better for everyone, even chuds, but also its kind of depressing to know that the future of identity politics is trading picking your poison between racism, xenophobia, or sexism. The (only) future of the party is figuring out how to unite social conservatives and social liberals along their economic class interests, and to convert social conservatives (and for that matter liberals) to a more tolerant worldview through the negotiated intersubjectivity produced by the political projects of mass struggle. Put more concretely: if you can convince everyone to work together on fight for 15 or medicare for all, they will, by working together, actually build relationships that transcend and improve these relationships. Is the hope anyway.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:31
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John Wick of Dogs posted:So right now we are at the point where if all the states stayed how they are, Biden has 270 right? Correct
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Nov 4, 2020 15:32
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John Wick of Dogs posted:So right now we are at the point where if all the states stayed how they are, Biden has 270 right? That's my understanding: 
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Nov 4, 2020 15:32
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Mooseontheloose posted:They are party faithful. Literally. Didn't someone flip from Hillary to Trump in 2016 or am I remembering incorrectly?
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Nov 4, 2020 15:32
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Pick posted:Like, people didn't vote for Trump because he was an unknown. They voted for him because they liked him. It is perhaps worth asking why, given his open contempt for the processes of the government, so many people apparently hate the government and the democrats in particular, though. And what the new administration should be doing about that, if you get one.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:32
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I'm sorry if this is a gimmick post that I'm missing, but... what the gently caress? What is the basis for giving a poo poo about the moral character of your voters? "Vote for us because we're the good guys" doesn't just devolve into tribal politics, it IS that. Leftist policies benefit the population, rightist policies benefit a tiny elite (and directly harm people). That should be the basis for convincing people to vote for you. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 15:32
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I love this reality where the GOP shoots out to a huge lead and we have to wait forever for DEMOCRATIC STRONGHOLDS to be counted lol It's my own personal hell.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:33
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skylined! posted:Biden controlling the EPA is infinitely better than a trump win even if he doesn’t have the senate, what is wrong with you people. Do y’all not understand how much outsized influence the executive has over government? That it controls literally all but a few agencies? this is true and i don't want to discount that, but  if you think mcconnell will confirm any good people to head those agencies, so i'm not sure what can be done about that
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Nov 4, 2020 15:33
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Rea posted:There's a lot of lingering questions about the future due to how much closer this was than anyone expected. I think it's reasonable for us to be worried. But orange man gone. Feel happy for at least 24 hours before coming down with the doom and gloom.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:33
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Fallom posted:Yeah “decorum” and also “the constitution” It doesn't say poo poo about what the powers of the President are in this situation in a clear and concise manner, and they've always been "What can I get away with?". That's why Eisenhower could order school desegregation. Literally the only thing stopping Biden from just wildly doing whatever he wants and forcing the Supreme Court [Because I think it's impossible at this point for the Republicans to take the House, meaning that any hypothetical Biden presidency has a Congress unable to check him] to deal with all of it [Amazingly enough it can take months to reach the Supreme Court, by which time the money is spent] is decorum, the idea that it's not cool to do that. There is zero chance of Joe Biden of all people doing that, which is one of the reasons people have been so demoralized by him as the choice. He was never going to be a fighter. If he wanted to he could do all sorts of crazy poo poo, but he doesn't want to.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:33
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Inferior Third Season posted:I have faith that SCOTUS will gently caress with society on such a massive level that Democrats will turn out. Obamacare being invalidated with nothing to replace it and abortion becoming illegal in half the states are distinct possibilities. It's possible, but the adage that "Democrats will turn out" gets thrown around every cycle. It was clear from last night that traditional Democratic voters either didn't turn out as expected (African-Americans) or actually broke for Trump (Latinos), and that was with enough fuckery in their lives already between losing jobs, the pandemic, and massive social upheaval.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:33
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Xander77 posted:I'm sorry if this is a gimmick post that I'm missing, but... what the gently caress? If you reassure yourself that everybody who didn't vote the way you wanted is an inhuman troglodyte, then losing becomes a moral victory!
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Nov 4, 2020 15:34
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Seven Hundred Bee posted:fwiw, i think the idea of just running a candidate that gives people what they need is seductive because it lets you rehabilitate a large segment of the american public instead of having to grapple with who they are. i think one of the best features of progressive ideology in general is a fundamental respect for the individual and faith in eventual progress, but i find that hard to reconcile with data that shows, for example, that young hispanic men are voting for trump explicitly because they like how he gets to speak down to women. if thats true fwiw, I don’t think this provides much other than a very succinct and illuminating view of one person’s view of young, Hispanic men. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 15:34
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Mr Interweb posted:this is true and i don't want to discount that, but good news, biden will appoint pro-industry conservatives to lead them anyway so mcconnell will have no problem confirming them!
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Nov 4, 2020 15:34
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OwlFancier posted:It is perhaps worth asking why, given his open contempt for the processes of the government, so many people apparently hate the government and the democrats in particular, though. And what the new administration should be doing about that, if you get one. We already have people in this very thread saying that they wish Trump had won and think that might've been better. In that light, how could that possibly be a surprise?
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Nov 4, 2020 15:34
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GOP now basically forced to see how this plays outLeeMajors posted:I love this reality where the GOP shoots out to a huge lead and we have to wait forever for DEMOCRATIC STRONGHOLDS to be counted lol Yeah it's really loving bad
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Nov 4, 2020 15:34
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EngineerJoe posted:Didn't someone flip from Hillary to Trump in 2016 or am I remembering incorrectly? No, but a couple of Hilary electors voted for Bernie as a token piece of resistance (and also possibly to initiate a lawsuit to challenge the idea of faithless electors at the Supreme Court level). EDIT: I'm wrong; it was 2 for Bernie, which were invalidated, and 4 for Colin Powell, which was specifically to start a court case. Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 15:35
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Roger Explosion posted:Yeah, cool, great, I understand. Long time between now and January 2021.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:35
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Roger Explosion posted:Mates, Trump's losing. That's Step #1 on the road to unfucking the US. What’s step two?
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Nov 4, 2020 15:36
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Biden has a really good chance to get Georgia now; there are basically 300k mail in votes to go in blue areas to make up 100k in votes.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:36
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FCKGW posted:Correct The best kind of correct
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Nov 4, 2020 15:36
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:No, but a couple of Hilary electors voted for Bernie as a token piece of resistance (and also possibly to initiate a lawsuit to challenge the idea of faithless electors at the Supreme Court level). Oh ok, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks
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Nov 4, 2020 15:37
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I like that we got the election results where both sides feel they've been owned.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:37
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:good news, biden will appoint pro-industry conservatives to lead them anyway so mcconnell will have no problem confirming them! Lol that’ll just lead to McConnell nixing them because he absolutely cannot allow a dem victory in anything Or was that the joke
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Nov 4, 2020 15:37
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Shirkelton posted:What’s step two? Full blown communism or McConnells sudden untimely death
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Nov 4, 2020 15:37
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Darko posted:Biden has a really good chance to get Georgia now; there are basically 300k mail in votes to go in blue areas to make up 100k in votes.  The Needle sure seems to like Biden's chances in GA.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:37
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If Biden wins GA, I'll be interested to see if Ossoff is carried across as well. NC somehow went for Trump, incumbent GOP Senator Thom Tillis, and....incumbent Dem Governor. Cooper is currently winning 51.5 - 47. People in NC just really loved TRUMP
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Nov 4, 2020 15:37
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Petey posted:The (only) future of the party is figuring out how to unite social conservatives and social liberals along their economic class interests, and to convert social conservatives (and for that matter liberals) to a more tolerant worldview through the negotiated intersubjectivity produced by the political projects of mass struggle. Appeal to their greed and selfishness and hide the "rising tide lifts all boats" thing behind "You personally will get yours, gently caress everyone else." Florida voted for $15 an hour and More Trump. Coat the medicine in candy.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:38
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skylined! posted:Dems are bad but how do you even combat this. I live in ND, we literally don't have a process to handle what happens when a candidate dies. So in this one case, they aren't corrupt. But they did give all our coronavirus federal aid to oil companies to open new fracking wells, so there's that.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:38
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Shirkelton posted:What’s step two? That's up to you, Yanks. In the mean time, if this hold up and it probably will, the rest of the world is pretty happy at'cha right now. So fukken lighten the gently caress up, carnt!  Edit: Now you're just being an rear end in a top hat, Shirkelton. Roger Explosion fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 15:38
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Full blown communism or McConnells sudden untimely death Okay, so there isn’t one, well, that’s an inspiring bit of rhetoric from life’s winners. Roger Explosion posted:¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Ignorance; it’s truly bliss.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:38
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Pick posted:We already have people in this very thread saying that they wish Trump had won and think that might've been better. In that light, how could that possibly be a surprise? Well, yeah, people really disliking the democrats and the government can manifest in a lot of ways, which really makes the question an important one to answer because I don't think people are gonna come back to them of their own volition. What I'm getting at is that, like, trump and the republicans operate as one half of a system, the democrats are the other half, if trump's platform is very popular then the democrats have to be a part of why, no? Like they're the alternative, they've been in charge quite a while themselves, why isn't their platform powerful? What can they do to improve it? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 15:38
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EngineerJoe posted:Didn't someone flip from Hillary to Trump in 2016 or am I remembering incorrectly? Right but that didn;t change the election outcome.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:39
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Let's all agree about one thing, the next couple months are gonna be WILD as gently caress.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:39
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Pick posted:Like, people didn't vote for Trump because he was an unknown. They voted for him because they liked him. He's a performer who rewards his followers with exactly what they want to see, and makes them feel good.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:40
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Mat Cauthon posted:Average age in the House is 57.8 years old, average age in the Senate is 62.9 years old, and average age of incoming new members elected in 2018 was 58.1 years old. Median age in the US population is ~38. Seems like a big problem across the board. this has come up in other threads, but the solution is really to work with young people before they get sucked into the fox news infosphere through extensive community based outreach, which tbh is probably what we should focus on anyway. Shirkelton posted:fwiw, I don’t think this provides much other than a very succinct and illuminating view of one person’s view of young, Hispanic men. i mean we have very clear polls that show this. Xander77 posted:I'm sorry if this is a gimmick post that I'm missing, but... what the gently caress? What is the basis for giving a poo poo about the moral character of your voters? no thats my point - one of the key criticisms was that biden focused on building on a coalition that included a large segment of essentially suburban republicans who don't mind a little racism but don't like how loud trump was. but i think the idea that there is a morally "better" coalition out there is dubious, in that it turns out that people all over have pretty bad views, and its just picking your particular electoral poison until you can reach out to young people through community organizing. and leftist population are "the good guys" for the reason you say - because policies that help people instead of hurt them are objectively better for more people.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:40
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Inferior Third Season posted:I have faith that SCOTUS will gently caress with society on such a massive level that Democrats will turn out. Obamacare being invalidated with nothing to replace it and abortion becoming illegal in half the states are distinct possibilities. depends on how early in the next four years that happens. if it happens in the first year lol nope because americans have the memory of goldfish. at this point I think what it shows us is that the american electorate doesn't give a single flying gently caress about politics. what matters is who is more exciting!! going back to 2000, bush was exciting to proto-chuds while gore was dull. kerry was also dull. obama was way more exciting than mccain or romney. but trump, while a complete shithead fucker, is definitely more "exciting" than hillary loving clinton or joe loving biden. if biden squeaks this out it's because of all the bullshit particular to 2020 but otherwise it'd have been trump easily. the dems need to stop running dull old people and start running people who are exciting and inspiring. that's what almost always wins elections, regardless of policy. I think this is symptomatic of the group of undecideds who compartmentalize politics into "its own thing" instead of a struggle for lives, so they can treat politics as a tv show. I mean gently caress, I hate trump as a politician, but I'd watch a tv show starring him over a show starring biden because the biden show would be so dull. the problem is when you realize that it's not a tv show but has real effects and then the shithead main character can't be laughed at/with as easily. (this is not to discount the fact that republicans love racism, but what inspires them to vote for trump moreso than romney is because trump is more exciting than romney could ever dream of being) trump is basically if frank reynolds ran for president Jigsaw fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 15:41
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I guess a small silver lining here is that Biden barely squeaking in a win could lead to Trump spending all of his efforts attempting to overturn it instead of burning the country to the ground on his way out.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:41
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