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Subvisual Haze posted:El is God in Hebrew. Was also the name of a fatherly God in some other semitic religions. If you see a name ending starting or ending in El, odds are its a Hebrew name meaning God's-something. Yes, I know. But Elohim is specifically the name mormons use when they refer to their god.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:41
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Subvisual Haze posted:El is God in Hebrew. Was also the name of a fatherly God in some other semitic religions. If you see a name ending starting or ending in El, odds are its a Hebrew name meaning God's-something. I'm at the 85% mark, and Adolin's trial just ended, and I feel like Sanderson really didn't actually have five books worth of story, and locked himself into a format because he made the number ten so symbolic.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:58
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RoW So there's a guy named Sixteen who only comes out of his house every sixteenth day... that's suspicious as hell in a Sanderson book. Any idea what his deal is yet? My overall reaction is about the same as most everyone else's. The middle Kaladin and Navani parts dragged a bit, I didn't really need to see the same Kaladin and Shallan struggles against mental illness again (though I'm somewhat glad they don't just unrealistically permanently get better when story-appropriate), and I didn't care overly much about Venli and Eshonai's flashbacks.
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Nov 21, 2020 02:13
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Row felt a bit like one of those naruto or bleach filler arcs set during the timeskip - a couple of things happen, but most of the plot beats are echoes of the previous book. The Urithiru plotline, and raboniel in particular has a real 'filler arc villain' feel - a newly established Biggest Threat Ever, even more existentially dangerous than who they were previously fighting, who then dies in the same arc that introduced them, and who most of the characters never interact with in any appreciable way.
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Nov 21, 2020 02:20
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Gedt posted:Yes, I know. But Elohim is specifically the name mormons use when they refer to their god. Because that's Hebrew for Lord God. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with the Mormon angle specifically here?
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Nov 21, 2020 03:02
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I heard El doesn’t drink caffeine
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Nov 21, 2020 03:10
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CapnAndy posted:[...]I feel like Sanderson really didn't actually have five books worth of story, and locked himself into a format because he made the number ten so symbolic. I'm not far enough to say whether I agree, but he's commented in interviews that proofreading/editing this one included needing to do the outline of book 5 to make sure that everything he wanted done by the end wasn't too much for that book and things were where he wanted them to be by the end of this one. So I can totally see issues with trying to make everything fit and pace properly when you're not writing for just one book.
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Nov 21, 2020 03:34
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Subvisual Haze posted:Because that's Hebrew for Lord God. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with the Mormon angle specifically here? Because when Mormons die, ideally according to their own faith - you get to become a cosmic godlike being and lord it over other mortal lifeforms on your own planet? Im just saying Brandons beliefs shine through in his work, and that I am excited to see where he goes with it.
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Nov 21, 2020 04:15
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At this point I don’t think there’s enough info to draw a connection between Elohim as represented in Mormon theology and the character in the book. Not saying there isn’t a parallel, just that it’s far too early to say.
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Nov 21, 2020 05:01
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Maybe he's speaking Spanish and the message is 'The, fused, the!'
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Nov 21, 2020 05:03
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TheMadMilkman posted:At this point I don’t think there’s enough info to draw a connection between Elohim as represented in Mormon theology and the character in the book. Not saying there isn’t a parallel, just that it’s far too early to say. That is fair, I could very well be wrong. It'll be fun to see if my halfassed theory bears out or not.
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Nov 21, 2020 05:50
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Speculation for future events without finishing the book yet: It can not be a coincidence that Wit tells a story about the time he lost all his money because he didn't plan for the possibility of a tie and then draws up a contract with Odium where what happens if he wins or loses are both clearly spelled out, but just those two things.
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Nov 21, 2020 05:51
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book 5 prediction I have an idea that's the opposite of the "What if Odium picks a baby as his champion?" theory that people keep bringing up: - Taravangian reveals himself as Odium (which Dalinar does not know as of the end of ROW) - He'll be his own champion, too - Dalinar's welcome to strike him down if he believes it's the right thing to do, he won't use any god powers, just an old man it gets us to the same "Dalinar is forced into a moral crisis because, to do it, he'll have to break all his oaths and admit Taravangian was right and the ends are what matter, not the means" while still obeying the spirit of the deal and not requiring some kind of legalistic bullshit about 'what counts as a willing champion?' Dalinar gets forced into a tie or a stalemate or something. edit: CapnAndy posted:Speculation for future events without finishing the book yet: It can not be a coincidence that Wit tells a story about the time he lost all his money because he didn't plan for the possibility of a tie and then draws up a contract with Odium where what happens if he wins or loses are both clearly spelled out, but just those two things. my theory would agree with this! but seriously don't read any spoilers about anything related to this without finishing the book eke out fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 05:52
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The rule about a willing champion puts the kibosh to a lot of gimmicks.
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Nov 21, 2020 06:08
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Finished book 2. Bit of struggle session since a lot of it is so plodding. Decent story covered in crum. I'm assuming Oathbringer is more of the same?
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Nov 21, 2020 06:21
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doomisland posted:Finished book 2. Bit of struggle session since a lot of it is so plodding. Decent story covered in crum. I'm assuming Oathbringer is more of the same? things get much, much bigger and wilder in oathbringer
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Nov 21, 2020 06:23
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eke out posted:things get much, much bigger and wilder in oathbringer Noice
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Nov 21, 2020 06:26
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doomisland posted:Finished book 2. Bit of struggle session since a lot of it is so plodding. Decent story covered in crum. I'm assuming Oathbringer is more of the same? Oathbringer is most people's favorite
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Nov 21, 2020 06:28
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Oh I gotta read Edgedancer according to the Acknowledgements in Oathbringer....
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Nov 21, 2020 06:30
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RoW is definitely the most involved with other books so far. But I agree with Sanderson’s proofreading team that reading only Stormlight Archive you at least don’t miss anything. Anything relevant to Stormlight Archive that is.
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Nov 21, 2020 07:56
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Well of Ascension question (having finished part 4 of the book) - The voice that Zane heard - is that something directly tied to this trilogy or is it a greater Cosmere thing? I assumed it was The Deepness, but I wasn't sure if it was just a greater Cosmere thing.
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Nov 21, 2020 08:08
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Mordiceius posted:Well of Ascension question (having finished part 4 of the book) - The voice that Zane heard - is that something directly tied to this trilogy or is it a greater Cosmere thing? I assumed it was The Deepness, but I wasn't sure if it was just a greater Cosmere thing. Do you really want an answer? ............Yes............. You'll find that EVERYTHING in his books ALWAYS ties into the "greater Cosmere thing". EVERYTHING Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 08:21
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Mordiceius posted:Well of Ascension question (having finished part 4 of the book) - The voice that Zane heard - is that something directly tied to this trilogy or is it a greater Cosmere thing? I assumed it was The Deepness, but I wasn't sure if it was just a greater Cosmere thing. The voice will be explained fully in the next book.
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Nov 21, 2020 08:27
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Anything that is not directly destroyed in a book will be found wandering the Cosmere later, probably as one interlude in the Stormlight series that most folks won't make the connection about even if they read the relevant book ten years ago (or I'm just clueless). At the same time, until Stormlight I don't think anything found in the books requires knowing about the Cosmere, and even then you can generally track it without reading the other books but the existence of this connection between various stories is a plot point to know going in.
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Nov 21, 2020 09:10
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There's always another secret, and it's all connected. Also I finished RoW and oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
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Nov 21, 2020 09:14
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CapnAndy posted:There's always another secret, and it's all connected. Yeah, no avalanche, but god drat was there some poo poo that happened. Not gonna lie, I kind of miss the avalanche
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Nov 21, 2020 09:16
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So my initial reaction:CapnAndy posted:I'm about 25% of the way through RoW if kindle isn't lying to me, and I need to write this down somewhere because I'm pretty sure I've solved one of the mysteries and I want proof if I was right. Which leads me to my overall opinion, which is that this is definitely the weakest book since Way of Kings, and for the same reason I disliked that one. Stop worldbuilding and make cool poo poo happen, Sanderson, we both know you can do either one for as long as you want, but the difference is, I don't care about the worldbuilding if cool poo poo isn't also happening! I reiterate my opinion that Sanderson foolishly locked himself into a 5 book cycle without 5 books of story, and this is the result. You could edit out about 60% of this book and lose nothing, and just graft the actual plot onto Book 5 and make it even more ridiculously overlong, oh well. Yes obviously he wants Book 5 to be the Last Ten Days, I get it, but that's just coming at the whole Sanderson's Letting Style Dictate Plot Instead of Vice-Versa criticism again but from another angle. Also I can read the spoilers now, and I have things to say! funkymonks posted:I do have a question: RC Cola posted:Yeah, I took it as Odium reading all of Hoid's magically stored memories, and then erasing the last 5 minutes. This gives Odium knowledge of the history of the cosmere so he doesn't have to ask about it from other shards, and Hoid has a hint of it, because he's lost enough breathes to lose perfect pitch. I looked it up to be sure, and perfect pitch is only the second heightening. Hoid has less than 200 breaths now. So the question rapidly becomes, if Taraodium was gonna steal that many Breaths, why leave any at all? team overhead smash posted:I think we see pretty much every world's magic system represented or mentioned in one way or another whether obviously or in the background (Except maybe Allomancy? Can't remember anything specific about that) RC Cola posted:Also it was super obvious to me that Kelsier leads the ghostbloods and Taravangian would ascend to Odium. I just thought that would happen next book.
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Nov 21, 2020 09:45
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CapnAndy posted:
By allomancy I mean someone swallowing and burning metal.
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Nov 21, 2020 10:47
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It feels like I'm hitting the avalanche 500 pages into RoW. The mental health chapters were rough, hit close to home in various ways, and now this. I keep anticipating how it can turn into a win and then remind myself it's not actually the end of the book, I'm not even through part two, and things are gonna suck. I don't think I've felt like this since Elhokar.
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Nov 21, 2020 13:06
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Thinking about it I think I know why this feels like an avalanche. Multiple viewpoints at a single event, high energy and the moment one lets off another picks up. More separated than earlier non-avalanche examples though (Adolin's duel comes to mind) so there's also the anticipation for the viewpoints to start running into each other.
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Nov 21, 2020 13:30
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One thing about Lift in RoW. She’s now the first of the main Stormlight characters to gain access to a different system of magic. That “chicken” she has is definitely an Aviar from First of the Sun.
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Nov 21, 2020 13:32
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Just finished!!! To be clear, I was held up because of NaNoWriMo and not the book.Subvisual Haze posted:RoW was certainly the weakest book so far of the Stormlight Archive. I'm don't think it even qualifies as an above average Brandon Sanderson book. Previously I would have given the weakest of this series to Oathbringer, but the problems of Oathbringer pale compared to this one. I get that this is primarily setup for the half-series finale (very like Well of Ascension), but the book itself is a mess in terms of pacing and character development. The ending was enjoyable, but the middle part was an absolute slog. A huge amounts of the content in this book felt like easily cut filler. RC Cola posted:All the things you disliked, I loved so to each their own I guess eke out posted:same lol, had a great time reading it and also reading people talking about it on the discord, but i am a giant nerd Same for me. Devoured the book and could not put it down. The payoffs were well telegraphed, a lot of theories were confirmed: Bondsmith Navani Rlain linking up with Venli and the other listeners Taravangian's boon and curse Maya saving Adolin ALL the Cosmere Easter Eggs, just all of them, even aethers got a mention right at the end Nightblood match up against a Vessel and a Perpendicularity and an Honorblade Kaladin's Fourth Ideal That Jasnah had Plate and the Fourth Ideal all along That Shallan needs to reintegrate her personas Kelsier as the leader of the Ghostbloods but there were STILL some nice twists I didn't see coming: Pattern spy fake out Shallan's bonded TWO Cryptics and she deadeyed her first spren Things I need in Book 5: Adolin and Shallan to somehow restore all of those deadeye spren and they become something new Kaleshwi/Leshwadin is SO happening Lightweavers thinking they're gonna not to be frontline troops when their primary surge of Illumination gives them the direct ability to manipulation light and sound Taravangian and Dalinar working together, as friends, under the Rhythm of War Navani Uniting Storm/Life/Void Light Finally meeting the spren of the stone Nightwatcher Bondsmith Oathpact gets reforged into something new to move us into Cosmere main plot My super crazy theory is Ishar's messed up experiments with creating spren bodies somehow allows former deadeyes to reverse Nahel bond with a defected Fused. Like say suppose Leshwi was able to locate her old honorspren buddy who is probably one of those 2000 deadeyes, revive a bond in some way like Adolin has done with Maya and since Leshwi is a Cognitive Shadow, she can now bond with an honorspren brought into the Physical Realm and be freed from being one of Odium's Fused forever. Leng fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 13:49
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When I saw El I immediately thought of the Diablo 2 el rune and that’s it’s rune #1 and assumed El must be the first of the fused.
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Nov 22, 2020 05:17
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Re: the Ghostbloods: Yeah, the leader is loving Kelsier. Not only is it in the name of the organization and his title as Lord of Scars, but near the end of RoW Shallan passes on a message to him from Hoid that basically says "stay on your own goddamned planet or I'll come and beat the poo poo out of you again." Which is a thing we literally saw him do in Secret History. Re: RoW as a whole: Amazing final twist with Odium, Navani's sections were cool but too long, everything else can be summed up with "90% of what this character did was meh and/or totally predictable but the other 10% was reasonably interesting."
I feel like Stormlight is in a weird place where I don't really care about the individual characters anymore, but I want to keep reading for the cosmere implications. I guess that's good for Brandon since it means I'll keep buying his books, but I really hope book 5 is a step up from this.
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Nov 22, 2020 08:57
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Finished ROW, thoughts: * I understand the tower's importance but it felt like you could've cut out 25% or more of the day-to-day stuff in the tower and nothing would be lost. * Shallan was.... better? Still not a particually good character but that she bonded as a small child, severed it, bonded again later is certainly interesting. * Kaladin's Fourth Ideal seemed like it was a bit forced and like too many things, is saved for the end of the book. As soon as he started the sessions for people with PTSD and the invasion happened, I was expecting that group to get put in to danger and be what pushed him to his ideal but then they'd have had Super Kaladin 4 to deal with in the tower and even with the Sibling inverted he probably would've ripped through Fused and Regal left and right. * I wanted to see Sanderson do something shocking like have Kaladin sacrifice himself, pushing Teft to speak his Fourth Ideal. As soon as Moash had that dagger I knew Teft was going to die though because while I could see Sanderson giving Kaladin a big martyr's ending there was absolutely zero chance he'd pull the trigger on Syl being killed off (yet?) in this book and the lead up focused too much on Teft's spren and her impact on him. * Kaladin's radiant shardplate looked cool but its power seemed over the top. I guess radiant plate needs something to make it stand out over deadeye'd shardplate though. * Adolin Adolowns as usual. I guess it's balanced out by Shallan's presence. * Knew Maya would speak but what she said was unexpected. I know Adolin doesn't seem to want to become a Radiant, at least with any spren but Maya, but i wonder if that's due in part to the fact that he knows even saying the First Ideal would open him to Maya's pain and he'd be unable to use her. Though at the same time I'd guess that speaking an Ideal is going to be a vital part of Maya's restoration. * Poor Renarin. That note he left for Taravangian means he probably only knows about what happened to the body and not what he actually ends up causing to happen. More important, Odium now knows fully about the danger Renarin poses. * I'm an idiot who didn't realize who Thaidakar is, even after Hoid's very blunt message, since I'd constantly thought them as part of the 17th shard as basically their publically disavowed black ops group to actual intervene where necessary. * Odium 2.0 mentions they can't harm Hoid due to the original pact but wiping memories is absolutely a harmful act even if it's not a physical one so that's kinda bullshit. By that logic Rayse or anyone else could've just reduced him to an invalid and yet never figured that out despite the level of omnipotence a Shard gives? I know the epilogue was more to help show how dangerous Odium is now but it still felt really forced with a "nerf Hoid and figure out the details later" design. * Nightblood rules. * I really want the Nightblood book now. * Where the hell did Vasher run off to? * It sure seems like Cultivation is trying to puppetmaster Odium in their new setup and I suspect it'll go poorly for her. Overall the book isn't bad, but I think I'd put it behind Oathbringer for sure. One thing I'm confused about, wasn't one of the reasons for Dawnshard being written that ROW would focus a lot on Aimia/Sleepless and some level of importance of the Dawnshard? Because nether had any (direct) relevance to the book and the main impacts were explanations for Navani's airship andother occasional "oh these things happened on that expedition" comments. I think the series needs to tone down its number of POV characters. Storytelling doesn't need to have literally every single thing from multiple angles because it just brings the story to a crawl and makes it harder to want to follow individual characters when they're just one in a large crowd so you only get a little of each. e: Also from ROW's ending I think it's safe to say that Navani is probably the most (unknowingly) dangerous person in the Cosmere because of what she's done. Discovering how to create anti-light has her one step away from realizing how to create WMDs using light and anti-light reactions. Get some perfectly cut gemstones with massive amounts of those stored inside, force an interaction via remote trigger, and you've got the Rosharan version of a tactical nuke. And I don't think the severity of the discovery has hit any of them yet because they're all still thinking small scale. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 00:23
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Evil Fluffy posted:
RoW So Hoid was using Breaths to store 'extra' memories, because he's kind of human-ish and wasn't meant to live nearly as long as he has, and the mortal brain wasn't meant for that. Odium did something to them, but we don't know exactly what. Removing memories stored in investiture or the investiture itself isn't any more harming someone than destroying their metalmind would be.
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Nov 23, 2020 00:43
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big mean giraffe posted:RoW RoW: It’s a little unclear, at least to me, if Hoid got major memory wiped below the perfect pitch threshold, or if Todium rifling through the Breaths used enough to knock Hoid down just enough to notice.
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Nov 23, 2020 01:14
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More RoW: I've been thinking about the epigraphs and what not talking about the relationship between the shard and the individual holding it. I'm very, very curious to see how this plays out with Taravangian. Which part of his personality will ultimately play out to passion? His 'ends justify the means' cruelty, or the raw emotions that he felt on his 'bad' days at the end of his life? The interactions with him so far seem to indicate that we're getting ultra-smart Taravangian, but I'm not sure that will hold up. And I think both can be quite dangerous.
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Nov 23, 2020 01:31
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Democratic Pirate posted:RoW: my take is that it's better Evil Scheming to learn everything Hoid knows and leave Hoid unaware that Odium did it than to do something as overt as erase them. i bet the interference left him temporarily unable to use the Breaths and only the one scene we see (where he realizes it's not Rayse) was wiped anyway it can't be that bad considering we see him loving around on Scadrial a few years later for an extended period of time just to figure out who Wax is and direct him at Kelsier
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Nov 23, 2020 01:34
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Just scrolling on through for Mord posts, you all read too fast  I'm only beginning Part 3 Just starting the first Flashback now. I heard they started late this book but dang!
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Nov 23, 2020 02:57
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