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Zero Gravitas posted:So scandipol, whats the 5 minute version of why people are making GBS threads the bed in Norway now that SP are in the 20% region Means the left is dead. You can spend the remaining 4 minutes and 53 seconds on contemplating the effects of privatization on public services and how not a single gently caress right of communist party is gonna do fuckall to stop it.
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Nov 26, 2020 20:05
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Baudolino posted:If abortion was 10% as explosive here as in yankeeland then that could work. It's at least 10% as explosive here. Whenever the abortion law is threatened women mobilize en masse, the conservative politicians just don't give a poo poo.
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Nov 26, 2020 20:12
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VSr2aVIIIP3CscvMjUdJ ilH0dAvO68RQN1M67NnM Qx0cRsweaLJ4h0ZtPHey qRU7bSDxjNa1F2gzitdj WuzXhQxzRdBjb4mLGcsp OecdSnXKVDLEfbfqTODJ SPgjQFTOJYg7BS4RZ08Q zi6STzwFNKZZ1ldbx7iG 93peLZR5sk93kU3RPhcf etZzQH3bThjWDcWScidA Plasmafountain fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2020 20:16
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Zero Gravitas posted:The left is dead? I thought AP were still on around 25% even if Store is Mr Bland and FrP are losing relevance according to Aftenposten The mistake would be to consider AP a left wing party as opposed to nakedly centrist.
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Nov 26, 2020 20:41
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YchmvQtZtenEsuvS37Rc hmxKy6OFD9DYKgA6cFwz 85HjyeRSRNrXcpZSI8ol NbPAvlVMGzQtMlgLBwac dMlRTOs8zhpfLMsn34uN aq5X40rwkH0WGVpDgxBp N4ZfZNovzvXhAghHaSfn nroxdlUFlAyHif3Oj8LQ G0rdCmTTuzVyepd5hSBn U2CntezFSNYnVUn2qF5J Plasmafountain fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2020 20:47
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Zero Gravitas posted:This may be my UK centric political compass talking, but AP seem rather firmly in the left and sure, a lot of the other parties are deeper into it than they are; but to call them centrists just seems extremely strange. Oh, don't worry, only about 1/3 of AP is overtly centrist and they are in Sp now. The remaining 2/3s are nominally leftist but in all practical terms they are the ACER voting assholes who are indistinguisable from Høyre by the averagely informed voter. Either that or are just coasting their party membership by sheer inertia, and are functionally non-participants in the ideological dialogue of Norway - so basically also centrists.
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Nov 26, 2020 20:58
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Zero Gravitas posted:The left is dead? I thought AP were still on around 25% even if Store is Mr Bland and FrP are losing relevance according to Aftenposten According to the latest NRK poll, which I posted, they are closer to 20% than 25% and their voter loyalty is also historically low. What the polls indicate is that Sp is by far the most effective opposition party on the left, capable of bringing lots of attention to their issues to attract voters, both new voters and stealing voters of of Ap, H and Frp, as well as the two center-right parties, V and KrF (though MDG is also important in killing off those last two), which is gonna be hugely important as if those parties end up below the threshold for leveling seats (or if they are wiped out if parliament all together which the latest polls indicate for KrF) there's basically going to be no avenue where a right-wing government is re-elected. The thing is though, despite being part of the left in electoral alliance terms, Sp is in reality far from being a socialist or left-wing party. Sp is traditionally known for being hard negotiatiors in exchange for their support in parliamentary and government issues, it's probably why they've been around for so long (and used to be they were stronger than their national share of parliament alone would indicate as they control a alot of local governments in the west and interior nearly as a matter of course), in this instance they are in a very different position and is looking likely to be not only a key party on the left in terms of their ability to galvanize supporters for their issues, but also in terms of their size, they might even up being the dominant party on the left, eqaling or overtaking Ap, and are very likely to be as big or bigger than Sv, R and MDG put together. One way Sp looks likely to exercize this power is to deny influence and participation in a new left-wing government to MDG and SV and R, who really do clash with Sp on a lot of issues, including public spending*, imnmigration and refugee policy, oil and environmental protections. *I think it was last year I saw a graph on some website looking at the alternate yearly budgets proposed by the left and Sp's clearly stand out from Ap (though slightly there) and Sv and R in terms of income, property and corporate taxation. MDG also does to be fair, those fuckers loooove them some regressive flat sales taxes and road tolls at the expense of everything else.
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Nov 26, 2020 23:26
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MDG and SP do agree that any "center-left" coalition must exclude Rødt, which might be a moot point as Rødt does not want to be part of any such coalition, and there is no guarantee that AP would welcome them anyway, but it still another shift of the overton window to the right and a loud and clear "gently caress you" so gently caress both of them.
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Nov 26, 2020 23:43
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curiosly, as things stand we're looking at a majority euroskeptic government for the first time in my lifetime assuming it's SV/Sp/Ap, as is looking most likely now. that's going to push the EEA to some kind of limit
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Nov 26, 2020 23:43
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Only when you activly poke the hornet nest by proposing new restrictions does abortion become a hot issue. This is very unlike America where it is never not extremly polarizing issue. All SP has to do is say nothing. The status quo has broad support all over the country. And why would we? Making abortion difficult is not populist candy like it is in certain countries. Only if the status quo becomes unpopular would we change our position. Im happy to bend like a reed in the wind on this issue. What ever it takes to get back to working for the policies that matter to me. In a left wing coalition that means waving through whatever liberalizations SV and R may want in return for other their support on other issues. Vedum would be insane to prioritize abortnemnda-bor-nedlegges in that scenario.
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Nov 26, 2020 23:51
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if labour starts making noises about serious liberalisation, Sp is going to have to clarify its policy and start signalling how important it is, and it's a definite wedge between the base and a fair chunk of the newer votes as it stands, there's a lot of murmurs on the left about doing away with the nemd system, and if labour puts it on the agenda it's happening unless Sp actively blocks it
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Nov 27, 2020 00:08
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Nov 28, 2020 14:00
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 Some reasons why this pisses me off: Not a single loving mask in this picture. Several members of fascist groups (SIAN, DNM) participated in this demo and nobody cared. The only outcome of this is more infected and stricter restrictions.
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Nov 29, 2020 10:41
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there was also some rear end in a top hat with a Trump flag there, because of course
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Nov 29, 2020 15:37
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 2020 strikes again.
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Nov 29, 2020 15:39
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The government wants to make it cheaper to eat out and stay in hotels to help the ailing businesses. The Unity List wants to give everyone earning less than 32K a 1,000 kr. gift certificate so they can go to crowded places and get an ~experience~ during Christmas. Because, you know, it's not like a similar UK program, "Eat Out to Help Out", was shown to cause a large surge in infections in the summertime, or that studies have confirmed the obvious vectors that are hotels and restaurants. Christmas and New Year's are going to be a loving massacre. Nobody gives a poo poo. A fourth of the population keeps using their disposable masks for several days.
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Nov 29, 2020 15:46
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Frekkie Melody posted:
It's the 50th anniversary of "All Things Must Pass". Harrison died today in 2001.
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Nov 29, 2020 16:48
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SplitSoul posted:A fourth of the population keeps using their disposable masks for several days. To be fair, if a service worker can wear theirs for 8 hours straight it makes little sense to throw yours away after a 10 minute trip to the grocery store.
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Nov 29, 2020 17:34
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thotsky posted:To be fair, if a service worker can wear theirs for 8 hours straight it makes little sense to throw yours away after a 10 minute trip to the grocery store. That's not how that works.
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Nov 29, 2020 17:35
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thotsky posted:To be fair, if a service worker can wear theirs for 8 hours straight it makes little sense to throw yours away after a 10 minute trip to the grocery store. The authorities advise that they're stored safely if reused after a small trip. That's probably not what people are doing.
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Nov 29, 2020 17:55
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Just looking at the episode titles of the Borgen Unplugged podcast for the last month is pretty fun. Five episodes in a row of things like "Blood in the water! Is this the end of Mette Frederiksen?!?", and then today's episode: "Polls are in - nobody gives a poo poo about Minkgate".
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Dec 4, 2020 13:22
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thotsky posted:To be fair, if a service worker can wear theirs for 8 hours straight it makes little sense to throw yours away after a 10 minute trip to the grocery store. I have a half face and ffp3 cartridges but too self-conscious to wear that.
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Dec 4, 2020 14:11
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I have so far never used a mask in a shop only (if severly crowded) on public transport and never while just walking down the street. Is that terribly selfish of me? I notice that some people have taken to using masks all the time outside of their own domicile.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:57
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Baudolino posted:I have so far never used a mask in a shop only (if severly crowded) on public transport and never while just walking down the street. Is that terribly selfish of me? I notice that some people have taken to using masks all the time outside of their own domicile. My experience after chatting with masked people as I ring them up is that a significant portion of them are wearing masks for their own protection. I'm just thankful they're inadvertently helping fight the spread.
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Dec 5, 2020 09:47
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Baudolino posted:I have so far never used a mask in a shop only (if severly crowded) on public transport and never while just walking down the street. Is that terribly selfish of me? I notice that some people have taken to using masks all the time outside of their own domicile. But sure, do go on being the least bit inconvenienced just because you don't care about people who're actually at risk. I mean, it's not as if there's peer-reviewed scientific proof that mask-use is effective, or anything.
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Dec 5, 2020 11:18
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Baudolino posted:I have so far never used a mask in a shop only (if severly crowded) on public transport and never while just walking down the street. Is that terribly selfish of me? I notice that some people have taken to using masks all the time outside of their own domicile. You have to wear them basically everywhere* that isn't the street or at home here in Denmark. I did not realize this was noteworthy until I noticed the Sweden train was loaded with signs that said "remember to wear the mask in Denmark!" *Dunno where we're currently at with regards to like bars and gyms; haven't been to either in months.
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Dec 5, 2020 11:51
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Dec 5, 2020 12:00
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Baudolino posted:I have so far never used a mask in a shop only (if severly crowded) on public transport and never while just walking down the street. Is that terribly selfish of me? I notice that some people have taken to using masks all the time outside of their own domicile.
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Dec 5, 2020 12:22
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No but you see the Swedish health galaxy brains don’t recommend masks, and we should listen to them because of their impressive COVID track record so far
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Dec 5, 2020 15:48
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Not just Sweden. Until the guidance changed a week ago the Norwegian FHI also recommended against the public using face masks. Now the advice is for people in quarantine to use them on public transport and those in home isolation to use them around other household members. Otherwise follow the advice of your kommune, which may require them in indoor public spaces. People following the official national health advice would not have been using them until now unless they were medical workers, in quarantine, or had other specific guidance (for instance my work requires a facemask or visor for people working together in the same room).
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Dec 5, 2020 16:53
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But the shops are mostly empty when i go, and i have used public transport like maybe 6 times in 2020. ( used a mask on the Oslo Subway once in September as the carriage was too tigthly packed) If you can keep 2 meters distance then masks are unnecessary, no? Would like to get trough this without buying more then one mask packet simply by planning when i go out.
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Dec 5, 2020 16:53
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Swedish radio this past week has been a mix bag of "Do masks do more harm than good? Who knows! We asked some people for their opinions" And one monologue after another about how much people suffer from working from home and how we desperately need to get them back into the office for their own good.
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Dec 5, 2020 17:01
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big scary monsters posted:for people in quarantine to use them on public transport Uh.
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Dec 5, 2020 18:07
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Baudolino posted:But the shops are mostly empty when i go, and i have used public transport like maybe 6 times in 2020. ( used a mask on the Oslo Subway once in September as the carriage was too tigthly packed) If you can keep 2 meters distance then masks are unnecessary, no?
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Dec 5, 2020 18:11
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I wear a mask as much as possible when out, and have been since late March. It helps keep my spreading of the virus down if I'm infected, which I could be, so yes, not wearing one or wearing it like an rear end in a top hat (taking it down when you're on the phone but still around others/sticking your nose out/whatever) is selfish, but we all do selfish things now and again. I wear it always because I'm used to it, it isn't that much of an inconvenience, and it also helps normalize it for others. It also steers a significant portion of non-masked people away from me. A lot of people in Norway think that the virus has been really handled well, but that's only in comparison to other European countries/US/South America. Still way worse here than in Korea/Taiwan/Australia/New Zealand, etc. It could also easily get a lot worse too As for Denmark and Sweden, well...
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Dec 5, 2020 18:39
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The 2m distance thing is based on an outdated study from the '30s. IIRC, the more appropriate number is 6m, and that is only dealing with the immediate plume of aerosols someone can expel. Those same aerosols will linger and disperse, so even an empty shop can have pockets of virus laden air. A mask won't protect perfectly against any of that, but it massively reduces the amount of virus you spread if you're asymptomatic, and it also helps reduce your intake which appears to reduce the severity of the disease if you do catch it - with lower initial viral load, the immune system gets a relative head start on combating the virus before it wrecks your body. this is not really meant as a specific response to this post alone, but i find it symptomatic of a tendency in our society of overcomplying and a moralisation of the covid response - you or i are not professionals in this stuff and during a crisis we simply have to assume that the people who *are* professionals know more or less what they're doing, or if they're wrong that they'll behave in a basically ethical way. what you're writing may be right, or it may be extremely contingent on circumstances. since basically every public health authority has said that 2m is usually ok, i'm inclined to believe the latter. it's a similar thing with the masks - masks are, politically, an excellent way to reduce the collective and governmental aspect of disease management and making it a matter of very public virtue. that is a very bad thing, because it lays the groundwork for making the pandemic response a culture war thing. imo, by and large, the norwegian people have dealt very admirably with some genuinely trying circumstances - as is, we're told to wear masks if we don't think we can keep distance, and part of this is presumably because distance is *much* easier than masks which are actually a non-trivial bit of hassle. in the spring in particular there was an almost total mass mobilisation to reduce transmission, which worked very well until the government let people go on holiday to try and keep the airlines alive, and completely mishandled the matter of students travelling to universities and living in massively cramped and lonely flats there have been mistakes on many sides here, but by and large the response has been decent, considering the limitations imposed by freedom of movement in europe. there seems to be no very compelling reason to assume nefarious reasons for the public health authorities' lukewarm attitude to face masks
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Dec 5, 2020 19:08
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V. Illych L. posted:this is not really meant as a specific response to this post alone, but i find it symptomatic of a tendency in our society of overcomplying and a moralisation of the covid response - you or i are not professionals in this stuff and during a crisis we simply have to assume that the people who *are* professionals know more or less what they're doing, or if they're wrong that they'll behave in a basically ethical way. what you're writing may be right, or it may be extremely contingent on circumstances. since basically every public health authority has said that 2m is usually ok, i'm inclined to believe the latter.
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Dec 5, 2020 20:02
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Do you apply the same thought process to other crises of capitalism? what, like climate change? yes
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Dec 5, 2020 20:10
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It probably wouldn't hurt if people wore masks, though. So is it really such a bad idea?
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Dec 6, 2020 01:22
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V. Illych L. posted:what, like climate change? yes Even if our healthcare "experts" are not overtly compromised, the prevailing racist attitudes in our societies is gonna apply to their understanding of disease and prevention too. The West seems insistent on reinventing poo poo the Chinese and their neighbors have already perfected*, because the West can't accept that it is no longer the sole originator of scientific progress. I mean, just look at the results and tell me we shouldn't just steal their approach. poo poo, China and Denmark have had about the same number of cases. Not per capita, actual total cases. *Relative to our responses at least. V. Illych L. posted:i find it symptomatic of a tendency in our society of overcomplying and a moralisation of the covid response Also, what do you mean with "moralization of the covid response"? Because it just sounds like "I don't want to be confronted with the possibility of my behavior causing direct physical harm to others".
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Dec 6, 2020 06:21
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