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Mooseontheloose posted:How early was it in War3 where Nigh Elves where super broken because glaives like did tons of damage against everything and starfire was the best hero power? I remember that era, back before the average player knew to have a skill that breaks channeling. I also remember maining the dread lord because nobody knew how to cancel sleep and ghouls were great. I remember hating the gently caress out of Frozen Throne because they made ghouls a lot weaker. I remember blocking a lot with shades too. The thing I remember from playing the leaked beta on a fake bnet client called warforge was that knights were very good. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 20:48
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General Battuta posted:I remember Starfire being super broken in the RoC beta. PaybackJack posted:The thing I remember from playing the leaked beta on a fake bnet client called warforge was that knights were very good.
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Dec 1, 2020 21:37
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PaybackJack posted:ghouls were great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4LiaGG8KSs tillerman disagrees  E: Nevermind this video is from TFT. Time flies... Mata fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 22:11
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Drakyn posted:Got any good tales from those days? I remember the old wc3 site having a lot of stuff-we-scrapped on it screenshots, including the Farseer and PotM being flying at one point (on an albino wyvern and a huge fuckoff owl respectively), and I always mourned not getting more details on things like that. There was one TFT patch where Destroyers—those are the flying black statues that could eat magic and gain splash damage—accidentally did full attack damage in their entire splash radius. (Splash damage is supposed to be lower than main attack damage.) My brother and I would play LANs and our first game on that patch he did bloodlust shamans against my UD. The big fight happened and ended shortly thereafter with a plaintive "I don't understand" since the Destroyers ate the bloodlusts then all did full-attack-damage splash over his entire army, creating conditions incompatible with orc survival.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:37
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General Battuta posted:conditions incompatible with orc survival.   I was specifically asking about beta weirdness, but I'm not complaining. Jesus. I was too young and clueless to really pay attention to patch notes at the time and me and my friend's multiplayer strategies more or less boiled down to 'uhh....mass endgame units?' so stuff like this flew right under my radar.
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Dec 2, 2020 01:23
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Ghouls used to be able to walk through enemy units when you clicked on a tree behind them because they're also harvesters so you could bypass the enemy meatshield and just start murdering their casters
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Dec 2, 2020 05:02
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my favorite thing from early wc3 was getting goblin land mines and casually blowing up your opponent's main in the first few minutes in a completely unstoppable way (goblin sappers at some point also) or getting wand of lightning shield and casually winning the game for free or getting big tomes of exp and winning from it Khorne fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 14:11
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Mooseontheloose posted:How early was it in War3 where Nigh Elves where super broken because glaives like did tons of damage against everything and starfire was the best hero power? The first time this happened, they were still called ballistas, as I recall. They were tier 2 like the rest of the seige engines. Turning them into glaive throwers and making them tier 1 was part of the re-balancing. http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/units/ballista.shtml http://classic.battle.net/war3/nightelf/units/glaivethrower.shtml Seldom Posts fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 15:32
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To be fair giving elves tier one siege was probably the right move. They get a huge creeping advantage with ancients but pushes can easily kill you early and a human tower rush against close spawn on turtle rock was almost unbeatable at one point. I can't believe I forgot goblin land mines, the closest thing to an instant win I think I've ever personally used in a strategy game of any kind. And early too! Like first creep camp, rush to enemy base, win. I don't know if they'd detonate on their own without anything walking over it so elves might have a chance but the other 3 are going to lose their entire gold line and probably their main or haunted gold mine. Seriously, open the editor, place them in the middle of a map and give it a shot. It's hilarious if it's still the same. It's a drat shame they're so broken; I'd love to see the items get switched up a bit
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Dec 2, 2020 15:59
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Milo and POTUS posted:To be fair giving elves tier one siege was probably the right move. They get a huge creeping advantage with ancients but pushes can easily kill you early and a human tower rush against close spawn on turtle rock was almost unbeatable at one point. Yeah, it was a good move. In retrospect War3 was a well supported game with lots of well thought out balance changes. People complained at the time, but that's the market. Goblin mines were indeed excellent, also enjoyed clearing trees behind an enemy base and using the goblin zepplin to put siege machines or towers there. Hard to do, but hilarious when it worked.
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Dec 2, 2020 17:18
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General Battuta posted:I remember Starfire being super broken in the RoC beta. Starfall literally, and instantly, crashed the game. For the opponent only. Resulting in an instant win. Milo and POTUS posted:I can't believe I forgot goblin land mines, the closest thing to an instant win I think I've ever personally used in a strategy game of any kind. And early too! Like first creep camp, rush to enemy base, win. I don't know if they'd detonate on their own without anything walking over it so elves might have a chance but the other 3 are going to lose their entire gold line and probably their main or haunted gold mine. Seriously, open the editor, place them in the middle of a map and give it a shot. It's hilarious if it's still the same. It's a drat shame they're so broken; I'd love to see the items get switched up a bit Elven trees counted as units even when rooted and set them off on their own. It was literally unavoidable as NE, guaranteed tree kill. I think it actually only took 2 mines to kill a Tree of Life. Fun fact: Goblin landmines only hit enemy units so you could lay them down in the middle of a fight and kill the entire enemy army at once with no risk. Drakyn posted:Got any good tales from those days? I remember the old wc3 site having a lot of stuff-we-scrapped on it screenshots, including the Farseer and PotM being flying at one point (on an albino wyvern and a huge fuckoff owl respectively), and I always mourned not getting more details on things like that. I have many tales and can probably get the ones I don't have. Some very quick highlights I will add to later: - Raider rushing in beta - Raiders had better stats and were cheaper than grunts, had nets, did full damage to units and like double damage to buildings. 5-6 Raiders could take down an entire enemy base much faster a few minutes into a game than an enemy army could kill them. This was the ONLY strategy for a patch or two. - Dreadlord sleep lasted full duration on heroes and their AOE had no unit/damage cap. This +ghoul forestwalking stayed insane throughout much of RoC - Casters were for all practical purposes better at fighting than other units at release. Comparable damage + spells, almost all of which were better en masse. Most armies were pure caster vs pure caster - Creeps could level you up past 6 and gave much more xp compared to currently (and enemy units gave less). Most games were spent PvEing for 2/3 the time - Wands of Negation were purchasable in shops (for 150 gold i think?) with 3 charges each, for a large portion of RoC. They were by far the most important thing you could be doing with your money, countering half the hero abilities and being absolutely required vs. most army compositions. High level games typically came down to who used WoNs better, and 2v2s were even worse I Love You! fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 18:35
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Some more really stupid things that are fun to remember: - Steam tanks originally required you to load Riflemen in them to attack. Otherwise they were just armored transports for your troops, who would all die if the tank did (which was "useful" because ???) - Demon Hunter mana burn burned (operating on memory here) approximately twice as much mana, did full damage per point of mana burned, and had the same range as an upgraded archer - Siege did full damage to units so pure Catapult/Blade Master was a thing for a while - Frost Wyrms were cheaper and much stronger and could easily beat dedicated anti-air armies even very late in beta - 3-4 ghouls + DK straight into Frost Wyrms was virtually uncounterable and had to be nerfed hard - Mass banshee was almost unstoppable for a few patches in RoC - possession was instant and there weren't good ways to punish mass caster at the time anyway
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Dec 2, 2020 20:40
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I Love You! posted:- Siege did full damage to units so pure Catapult/Blade Master was a thing for a while Remember all this - the last one led to one of my favorite gaming memories doing a 3 person FFA with friends. Friend 1 passes by my base with just a gently caress ton of banshees so I type out "lol" and Friend 2 says "did Friend 1 go all banshees?" and I lost it when I saw "Friend 2 has left the game." almost immediately after.
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Dec 2, 2020 20:50
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Remember when mass necros that just sat in base and sent endless waves of skeletons at you from the other side of the map was a thing
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Dec 2, 2020 21:21
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Banshee insta-cast was crazy stuff because with shades you'd see their whole army and could micro to steal all their units before they even knew the fight was coming so you kind of had units trailing and advancing your main army so that you could get ahead of a wave of banshees rushing you. AnonSpore posted:Remember when mass necros that just sat in base and sent endless waves of skeletons at you from the other side of the map was a thing The best of this was playing 2v2 with a human ally that would turn his guys into militia just for you to have a horde of cannon fodder to turn into skeletons during a big attack. For as much as I have enjoyed watching high level War3 replays, most games are at their best at the casual level when you can do these jank strategies.
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Dec 2, 2020 22:10
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Oh yeah the hotd and black citadel used to not have a frost attack and instead did about twice the damage of a spirit tower while having the same cooldown. So it'd do about 60 dps. They were called death stars
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Dec 3, 2020 01:36
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Milo and POTUS posted:Oh yeah the hotd and black citadel used to not have a frost attack and instead did about twice the damage of a spirit tower while having the same cooldown. So it'd do about 60 dps. They were called death stars Sounds like something Undead could really use, honestly.
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Dec 3, 2020 05:49
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I Love You! posted:- Steam tanks originally required you to load Riflemen in them to attack. Otherwise they were just armored transports for your troops, who would all die if the tank did (which was "useful" because ???)
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Dec 3, 2020 06:01
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Tubgoat posted:I thought I encountered this one time, but the next time I made tanks this had been fixed, so I just assumed I had misremembered and wildly misunderstood the unit's capabilities. They had to change it very quickly as it was incredibly buggy. They didn't even try to fix it, just removed the feature.
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Dec 3, 2020 15:32
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My favorite Steam Tank/Siege Engine bug is that their weapons use an incorrect projectile mover (despite having the data specified for the proper one) and it will never be changed because #effort despite the teleporting shells looking weird as gently caress
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Dec 3, 2020 17:07
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Some more memories: - There were maps where human could tower rush lvl 10 creeps at the start of the game with 1-2 towers because of how targetting worked and due to towers granting XP on kills - Invuln potions worked while channeling spells. Walk into base, Starfall/tranq + invuln, GG. With creeping more powerful at the time a lot of games ended this way - INFINITE TOME BUG (storytime below) ...so originally tomes of all sorts were items you picked up and held in inventory until used. This was silly because it incentivized you to hunt for, then horde them for a new hero according to the types of tomes you found (or just hunt for XP tomes and stash them away). So they patched in the current implementation of tomes - one-time buff when your hero picks them up. Within an hour people discovered that if you shift clicked on a tome, it would queue up "use" commands. As many times as you right clicked. Which, of course, led to the play pattern of shift-clicking an extremely long, meandering route followed by queing up several hundred tome-pickup commands. While it might seem like finding a tome of XP and instantly becoming lvl 10 was the dream, the true power was unlocked by a tome of Str (near-infinite HP and, on a Str hero, near-infinite damage) and Agil (massive armour, attack speed, and +damage on an agil hero). If you ever played UMS games with exponential hero stat growth, it was like that but in a ladder game. I Love You! fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 20:23
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Mass Banshees was OP in the patch when they made Anti-Magic Shell undispellable. Anti-Magic Shell at the time gave a unit total magic immunity (rather than just eating up some magic damage like it does now) so in the days of mass casters having your army be completely immune to magic was incredible. Instant Possess was just the icing on the cake but it was Anti-Magic Shell and the nature of the game back then that was the actual reason they were amazingly good for that one patch.
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Dec 4, 2020 13:39
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Flayer posted:Mass Banshees was OP in the patch when they made Anti-Magic Shell undispellable. Anti-Magic Shell at the time gave a unit total magic immunity (rather than just eating up some magic damage like it does now) so in the days of mass casters having your army be completely immune to magic was incredible. Instant Possess was just the icing on the cake but it was Anti-Magic Shell and the nature of the game back then that was the actual reason they were amazingly good for that one patch. To be fair it was the double-whammy that did it. Anti magic shell meant that casters weren't particularly useful against banshees, and possession meant that bringing an army of bruisers was an auto-loss, so there really was no solution to the riddle.
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Dec 4, 2020 18:13
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This stuff kinda sounds like if it happened today with social media it would have caught backlash for how messed up the meta is.
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Dec 4, 2020 18:30
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Sodomy Hussein posted:This stuff kinda sounds like if it happened today with social media it would have caught backlash for how messed up the meta is. Maybe but on the other hand, I think the longer times in metas allowed for new strategies and better balancing.
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Dec 4, 2020 20:10
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There was a brief point where taverns were introduced where you could train both an altar hero and a tavern one in tier one. Also sea witch was amphibious so you could potentially creep with say an AM + elemental + whatever while harassing their main from the water. It might not have made it to the release game but it was definitely in the some early version of tft
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Dec 6, 2020 08:44
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Having amphibious heroes in the game sounds cool for some maps.
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Dec 6, 2020 20:46
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It would be fun to have naval units again, those were good days. And Christmas lights on buildings
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Dec 6, 2020 21:33
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I was really bummed when wc3 didn't have naval units or oil. poo poo I think originally they weren't even going to have lumber as a resource.
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Dec 6, 2020 22:48
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Groovelord Neato posted:I was really bummed when wc3 didn't have naval units or oil. poo poo I think originally they weren't even going to have lumber as a resource. I remember feeling the same way. Warcraft 2 was my loving life as a kid in the 90s. That and xcom.
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Dec 6, 2020 23:15
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Water heavy maps added such a unique dimension to multiplayer gameplay in War 2. There weren't many public games played on sea maps, but they were some of the best games.
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Dec 7, 2020 02:04
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Water heavy maps added such a unique dimension to multiplayer gameplay in War 2. There weren't many public games played on sea maps, but they were some of the best games. Exactly it's why I was so bummed.
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Dec 7, 2020 02:21
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Groovelord Neato posted:I was really bummed when wc3 didn't have naval units or oil. poo poo I think originally they weren't even going to have lumber as a resource. I think they weren't even going to have base building because they said such and such percent of the time spent is "players building their bases". Turns out people really like building their bases. I honestly want to see the opposite universe wc3 just for a bit
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Dec 7, 2020 04:39
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Milo and POTUS posted:I think they weren't even going to have base building because they said such and such percent of the time spent is "players building their bases". Turns out people really like building their bases. I honestly want to see the opposite universe wc3 just for a bit Myth: The Fallen Lords and Soulblighter did this really well. There were hotkeys for unit formations!
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Dec 7, 2020 05:33
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I could of sworn WC3 had naval units at least in the campaign or map editor.
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Dec 7, 2020 11:10
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Frozen throne added a small smattering of mercenary ones, but the base game only had transports.
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Dec 7, 2020 11:14
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SirDrone posted:I could of sworn WC3 had naval units at least in the campaign or map editor. I think the Naga subrace had swimming units, but it's annoyingly difficult to confirm any WC3-specific information.
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Dec 7, 2020 11:25
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Myth: The Fallen Lords It's funny you mention this because watching high level WC3 games where once a player's army is complete they rarely add more units to it and simply try to keep their units alive and most money gets spend on upgrades and items; it does feel like Myth. I don't know if that was intentionally designed that way based on Myth but the idea of having all your units not just be easily replaceable fodder was one of the reasons I really liked WC3 over Starcraft.
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Dec 7, 2020 12:27
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I like the smaller number of units to keep track of in WC3.
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Dec 7, 2020 14:37
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A grunt is like a 200g investment and losing them prematurely just feels devastating
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Dec 7, 2020 14:45
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