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Onmi posted:Here's the current fallout from Operation Stardust that I'm aware of. drat, sounds like there's finally something good in UC.
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Nov 30, 2020 05:15
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Onmi posted:Here's the current fallout from Operation Stardust that I'm aware of. So what you're saying is 0083 the manga owns? Also watched F91 this weekend and the bumpy flow of it really shows but I'm probably going to end up reading at least the first Crossbones series since I really liked Seabook and Cecily.
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Nov 30, 2020 05:52
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Tulalip Tulips posted:So what you're saying is 0083 the manga owns? There's like two pages explaining what happened after the movie and it's more interesting than the rest of Crossbone.
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Nov 30, 2020 06:04
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I like crossbone. But cecily and seabooks are very minor, it's not even as much a role as quattro in zeta. The whole manga is very much tobias's show.
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Nov 30, 2020 06:06
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drat, the 0083 manga sounds like it loving slaps. Hope it gets an official translation or something.
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Nov 30, 2020 06:15
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Tulalip Tulips posted:So what you're saying is 0083 the manga owns? Got bad news. I talked about this earlier, but the dynamics are all off between Seabook and Cecily in Crossbones. Where in F91 Seabook's the regular guy who acts more for the people in front of him than any Greater Good, contrasted against Cecily playing the cynic and working with the Vanguard when they seem like the lesser evil (quitting when that's proven to not be the case), Crossbones reverses it. Cecily is innocent and useless in a crisis, while Seabook is doing what needs to be done, keeping secrets from Cecily despite her being nominally the one in charge.
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Nov 30, 2020 06:37
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The 0083 manga does some pretty huge adjustments to characterization; most notably, Kou is reimagined from "petulant child" to "kind of naive and nerdy but earnest and talented rookie", and Monsha of all people is changed in the manga to actually be a good guy and a mentor/big brother figure to Kou. It's not perfect - it has a lot of cameo-for-the-sake-of-a-cameo stuff crammed in, and it basically uses Nina as a dumping ground for all the awful characterization it removed from the rest of the cast - but as a story it's a hugely more entertaining and coherent take on Stardust.
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Nov 30, 2020 07:20
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Kanos posted:The 0083 manga does some pretty huge adjustments to characterization; most notably, Kou is reimagined from "petulant child" to "kind of naive and nerdy but earnest and talented rookie", and Monsha of all people is changed in the manga to actually be a good guy and a mentor/big brother figure to Kou. I swear Nina is meant to be crazy... like that's her character.  She brings up her relationship with Gato and basically describes "I knew him for about a month, he barely talked, we fixed a Haro together and he talked about mobile suit design a bunch." Like I don't buy this is a relationship that leads to this reaction.         Like... I get what the author is going for, Gato is lying, because he doesn't want Nina involved and because he himself is trying to steel himself with "my ideals". He clearly is forcing himself to be stoic to her. But at the same time... A MONTH! It wasn't even a deep relationship! This was a FLING. Neither of you is acting reasonably over what amounts to a fling! But also to explain what Kanos means by "They made Monsha less terrible." Since Dick Allen survives the events of the attack on Torrington, but is nearly killed by the Dom that kills him in the OVA, he takes Monsha's "Give me the Gundam" and trying to sabotage Kou. Because he's poo poo-scared of dying and he wants the strongest unit on the ship to raise his chances. Add in a reduction of Monsha's perverted tendencies (not trying to peek under skirts or harassing the mechanics) And he's mostly left as kind of an abrasive, but otherwise decent guy. The Manga gets a lot out of decompressing events. Like... it doesn't even start at Torrington, it starts at Solomon in the OYW, it takes a whole loving volume to get to the start of the 083 OVA. And I don't mean the Gundamjack. I mean Kou piloting the Zaku and the Powered GM fight. It takes until the end of Volume 2 for the actual Gundamjack to begin, with Kou facing down Gato in the Full Armour GP-01. Like it's DECOMPRESSED. It takes time to explore the 4th acting as their own unit, Kou and Keith at the Academy, them actually going to Torrington and getting climatized Nina meeting Mora in Jaburo and the Albion not landing in Torrington, to begin with. And it works, it really does. And the weird thing with Nina is up until the bit I posted, she's fine. She's also like given a lot of characterization, her relationship with Kou developing is believable, everything up until "Nina goes to confront Gato." Whereupon the crazy eyes pop out and never go away.
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Nov 30, 2020 07:42
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My favorite thing in 0083 Rebellion is the (mecha spoilers) rebuilt and GM-ified Big Zam.
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Nov 30, 2020 12:30
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the 0083 manga rules
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Nov 30, 2020 12:34
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Does it have an official translation? I see that scanlations only go up to volume 11.
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Nov 30, 2020 15:19
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I am darn proud of that 0083 manga for fixing everything that it could
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Nov 30, 2020 15:52
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0083 Manga loving OWWWWNNNSSS. And it is too bad that I haven't seen a chapter translated since like the end of 2018.
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Nov 30, 2020 16:59
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Onmi posted:I swear Nina is meant to be crazy... like that's her character. [...] Like... I get what the author is going for, Gato is lying, because he doesn't want Nina involved and because he himself is trying to steel himself with "my ideals". He clearly is forcing himself to be stoic to her. But at the same time... A MONTH! It wasn't even a deep relationship! This was a FLING. Neither of you is acting reasonably over what amounts to a fling! What I always found more objectionable about Nina in the animation is that she never actually rejects Gato and chooses Kou, or does anything to show a love for Kou. She threatens to shoot Kou (and deliberately shoots near him if I recall) to save Gato, then gets on a Zeon ship that's bound for Axis and the next time Kou and Nina interact she's turning up to his release in a moment that's clearly meant to be happy and romantic, given the music and her expression and there's really no reason I can think of why Kou should be happy to see her or want her in his life. Which it doesn't sound like it's really any different in the manga. Actually, it seems like it's unequivocally worse, since she tells Gato she'll stay with him if he'll accept her despite him being part of Zeon. She clearly loves Gato in a deep, and as you pointed out, maybe somewhat unnerving way, but it doesn't seem like she has any such relationship with Kou from what little I've read of the manga (the first few volumes) and pages I've seen of later stuff. Does she actually reject Gato at any point? Or do anything to show an at least equivalent love for Kou? Also, I find it kind of funny that the way the manga fixed characters like Monsha and Cima seems to have been by just giving them different personalities, going off the way they've been described in this thread. As is, I cannot imagine anime Monsha being any kind of mentor. To anyone. Or anime Cima actually giving a poo poo that someone died.
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Nov 30, 2020 17:49
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I hope that one girl got to gently caress Cima.
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Nov 30, 2020 17:54
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tsob posted:What I always found more objectionable about Nina in the animation is that she never actually rejects Gato and chooses Kou, or does anything to show a love for Kou. She threatens to shoot Kou (and deliberately shoots near him if I recall) to save Gato, then gets on a Zeon ship that's bound for Axis and the next time Kou and Nina interact she's turning up to his release in a moment that's clearly meant to be happy and romantic, given the music and her expression and there's really no reason I can think of why Kou should be happy to see her or want her in his life. Which it doesn't sound like it's really any different in the manga. Actually, it seems like it's unequivocally worse, since she tells Gato she'll stay with him if he'll accept her despite him being part of Zeon. She clearly loves Gato in a deep, and as you pointed out, maybe somewhat unnerving way, but it doesn't seem like she has any such relationship with Kou from what little I've read of the manga (the first few volumes) and pages I've seen of later stuff. Does she actually reject Gato at any point? Or do anything to show an at least equivalent love for Kou? Kinda? Sorta? But in a way it's just more of her obsession over Gato. The Von Braun arc shows she does like Kou and is considering a relationship with him, and is letting herself open up to him. And then she goes to the Delaz Fleet for that scene above. And you'd think. "Okay, Nina, he's rejected you, you nearly killed yourself over this, so now you've got to realize this is bad right?"     Nope! Just going to lead the Delaz Fleet to the La Vie En Rose so she can fix the Neue Ziel! And why?    Because she still wants to go with him and is essentially threatening to help kill him if he doesn't take her. And you know what, that's all fine it's what comes after that's the hosed up part.           Even when telling Kou that she loves him, she essentially says that she still loves Gato, isn't sure about her feelings, and just makes the situation way more complex. And then, again, I'm fairly certain that she still shoots at him during the Colony Drop. I know she's on the Komusai that's dropping into the atmosphere alongside the Albion and the colony. So that seems to be implying that in spite of all her talk here, at the end of the day she still chooses Gato over Kou. Again, I'm fairly certain at this point that her character is meant to be 'Insane' Otherwise it's the biggest fumble in a work that otherwise course corrects everyone else. chumbler posted:I hope that one girl got to gently caress Cima. Cima let her join the marines. Her status I.E. Stardust is unknown but I think she lived.
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Nov 30, 2020 19:14
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Ibblebibble posted:Does it have an official translation? It's a Gundam manga, so no.
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Nov 30, 2020 19:47
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Last chapter I'd seen was 53 or 54 maybe? Anyone care to PM me where these next chapter scans are coming from if we shouldn't put it here? vvv I mean, hell to the gently caress yeah. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 21:11
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gently caress intellectual property law
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Nov 30, 2020 21:17
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Onmi posted:Kinda? Sorta? But in a way it's just more of her obsession over Gato. I think the most telling thing I can say here is "Wow, Flay Allister's relationship with Kira was healthier than this."
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Nov 30, 2020 21:56
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Mineva isn't ever brought up in any late UC post-unicorn material right?
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Dec 6, 2020 11:06
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So, I finished watching Double Zeta today with a friend who'd never managed to finish it. Her reaction was interesting. For one, she mentioned that a major flaw of the series for her was that a lot of episodes were just... boring, specifically around the earth arc. But the opening really struggles with incredibly poor pacing and repeated plot threads around Shangri-la. In the end, she felt it was middle of the road. For me, I got to experience one of my favourite Gundams again and more importantly one of my favourite protagonists in Judau Ashta. The thing that still strikes me with Judau is that he's the obvious antithesis to both Kamille and Amuro. Where Kamille was violent and was disciplined, too weak to stand up to the adults around him, Judau never really lets anyone take advantage of him. He's not introverted like Amuro, he's not easily pissed off like Kamille. He's brash and outspoken with a core friend group who look up to him. When Wong tries to 'correct' him, he correctly asks what the hell does he think he's doing and denies it. When they take the Nahel Argama, it's clear that Bright's the one who's grown more from Judau's influence, he's come to see the bullshit bureaucracy for what it is, the greedy and powerful playing at leader. Far be it from the abused man in Zeta, or the young Ensign in MSG who was struggling to survive, he opens up more and more to trusting and thinking like these kids. Judau's influence is kind of a big running theme, I mean it defines his relationship with Haman. It's part of the reason she, bluntly, loves him. Because unlike the guarded and closed of Char, who emulated the aloof coolness and maturity, Judau IS mature, he's mature in his immaturity, in his self-assured nature, in his ability to function without a guide. It's why Haman can never manage to turn him, even though they grow closer with each interaction because Judau is not someone who needs a guide or teacher like Kamille was. He's not someone who needs to discover family as Amuro did. He mentions the coldness in one of the last episodes of being separated from one's parents, and it struck me as odd. Judau isn't an orphan, but his parents ARE absent. Yet there's never a moment for Judau where it appears he's longing for such parental emotion. That was a trait Kamille had, a desire to be understood and cared for, it's why he drifted between Fa, Reccoa and Emma early on. In the end, I actually really dug how everyone just seemed to swap machines without really much consideration. While Judau and Roux could pretty firmly be described as the "ZZ and Zeta pilots." A lot of people use the Hyaku Shiki, Mark II, and Mega Rider with pretty frequent swapping. Even the Nahel Argama, a ship I loving love the design of, in every way superior to the Argama, and as a sequel to the Pegasus Class it's like... everything I want. I actually think it's a more aesthetically pleasing ship than the Ra Calium. Even Beecha in the last few episodes has a time to use the Double Zeta and pretty confidently. In the end I felt like I really dug the whole crew. The flaws are still the flaws. The pacing is hosed, Beecha and Mondo have a horrible introductory arc, and for the most part it doesn't feel like Gundam. To clarify that. There's not much of a feeling of people being able to die at any point, not just the protagonists, but the antagonists. As the show goes on, we see a lot more "Beam saber through the cockpit, yeah that guys just dead." which is the starkness of war, but even through Earth there's a lot of... "Kid Gloves"? It feels different is all. I think the final 10 episodes are great, and I still adore Tigerbaum for what it is, if only Rasara's death wasn't so... fake? I felt the same with Ple-Two, her death felt kinda forced. I do find one thing funny though. In Unicorn, Marida is treated as having almost PTSD? over Gundams due to the Double Zeta in the final battle of ZZ... but Judau doesn't really fight the Ple-force. Chara and Nee do. And die pretty immediately. ninjewtsu posted:Mineva isn't ever brought up in any late UC post-unicorn material right? Mineva wasn't even brought up past ZZ Gundam. Her only appearance after that is in a non-canon manga which crossed over with Ideon. Fukui has an obsession with charting Mineva's story though. Almost all his work features her. Onmi fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 6, 2020 11:41
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Onmi posted:I do find one thing funny though. In Unicorn, Marida is treated as having almost PTSD? over Gundams due to the Double Zeta in the final battle of ZZ... but Judau doesn't really fight the Ple-force. Chara and Nee do. And die pretty immediately. You're forgetting something. Elle Vianno, holding off half of the Neo Zeon army all by herself in the Super Gundam, off-screen. 
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Dec 6, 2020 13:33
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Now, just saying, for the next generation lurkers, it's proper to spoiler tag characters dying. It's just proper. Every Gundam fan on Earth is perusing this thread, and you know most of us have ZZ on the back-burner. I like to see what people thought of a show, and I like it to look redacted like JFK material.
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Dec 6, 2020 21:42
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https://twitter.com/babbygoth/status/1335782641614917634
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Dec 7, 2020 18:59
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amigolupus posted:You're forgetting something. So that's where Marida's PTSD came from! (I mean, to be fair, half of that half probably crashed into asteroids or something given the average level of skill for Neo Zeon pilot, but it's still a good showing.) Moving onto other traumatizing events, I finally got around to seeing Island Wars and yep. I can see exactly why people poo poo-talk Try now. It's pretty terrible, in a boring way where there's not much to talk about. The initial fight was dull beamspam exchanges even before Sekai showed up to dominate everything (and I question any fight format where you can show up late with no issue), and then the structure kind of floundered. Sekai and Fumina alone on the island with Fumina's mom shoving them together, Fumina unsure of how to navigate her feelings, and Sekai oblivious isn't a compelling setup, but it has some room for decent moments as Fumina figures out what she wants to do and Sekai slowly realizes what his mentor was talking about with his whole "I WANT TO BE WITH YOU!" story. You don't even have to get to actual romance. You just have to have characters slowly realize how awkward everything is, then get some gags out of it. But just as that's going somewhere (in the most boring and cliche way possible) we get interrupted by the other girls showing up, and then everyone gets into a fight over wanting Sekai because... he's the protagonist? What's worse, when they get a mildly amusing gag with everyone going into Newtype space, they ruin it by explicitly saying what the joke was at the end of it. And then the final battle is basically Dynasty Warriors, with no interesting tactics, tension, or emotional stakes. I think I've seen worse Gundam stuff, but it's amazing how little there is that's done right in this. Bad structure, dull gags, weak action... It's just not very good. (It's also interesting how the structure overall suggests that Fumina is the protagonist, but somehow every big scene has to go to Sekai anyway.)
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Dec 9, 2020 01:00
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chiasaur11 posted:(It's also interesting how the structure overall suggests that Fumina is the protagonist, but somehow every big scene has to go to Sekai anyway.) This one sentence basically sums up Try.
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Dec 9, 2020 01:24
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chiasaur11 posted:So that's where Marida's PTSD came from! Kind of unrelated, but the talk of Marida reminds me of when Unicorn originally started airing and how people on /m/ were so annoyed that Unicorn was retconning all the Puru clone's dying to say one survived and then watching the actual show and there being 12 or 13 mass produced Purus, only 2 or 3 of whom are shown being killed on screen, while the rest just disappear and their fates are never addressed in the show. The original Puru died in show, Puru 2 probably died in the finale, Chara killed a couple more, Puru 12 died for Riddhe's sins and there's probably half a dozen more unaccounted for; though one more chased Judau in an Evolve short. It'd be nice to think there's at least a couple out there who survived, and just got to enjoy a normal life free from conflict after all the poo poo that the various Purus have been through. Maybe that one Judau encountered en-route to Jupiter became his adopted sister or something. tsob fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 02:02
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That would be nice. 
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Dec 9, 2020 04:21
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tsob posted:Kind of unrelated, but the talk of Marida reminds me of when Unicorn originally started airing and how people on /m/ were so annoyed that Unicorn was retconning all the Puru clone's dying to say one survived and then watching the actual show and there being 12 or 13 mass produced Purus, only 2 or 3 of whom are shown being killed on screen, while the rest just disappear and their fates are never addressed in the show. The original Puru died in show, Puru 2 probably died in the finale, Chara killed a couple more, Puru 12 died for Riddhe's sins and there's probably half a dozen more unaccounted for; though one more chased Judau in an Evolve short. It'd be nice to think there's at least a couple out there who survived, and just got to enjoy a normal life free from conflict after all the poo poo that the various Purus have been through. Maybe that one Judau encountered en-route to Jupiter became his adopted sister or something. A bunch of Ple's went to Mars to form ReZeon In AoZ.  Well, the leader is known as "Alicia Zabi" but well... quote:ReZeon supreme commander and advocate of female supremacy. She knows Char Aznable is raising an army but saying the Inle is mainly for protecting Mars, she opposes participating in the war. Also, Monsha is apart of ReZeon alongside a bunch of other Titans survivors. Because Advance of Zeta is weird. Onmi fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 07:27
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Warmachine posted:This one sentence basically sums up Try. I'd heard that, but it's still remarkable to see in action. Even harem anime, where the main guy tends to just be a viewer cipher, tends to be from his prospective, more or less. But Build Fighters Try has Sekai play like a supporting cast member, but everyone is obsessed with him anyway. It's also remarkable how he last hits the pair of Psycho Gundams after the other protagonists have basically killed it already.
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Dec 9, 2020 09:07
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Onmi posted:A bunch of Ple's went to Mars to form ReZeon In AoZ. I think ZZ had established that a bunch of Titans survivors ended up joining Neo Zeon and it's various branches and offshoots since they weren't exactly going to turn down a bunch of capable pilots and Mobile Suits Admittedly it's probably something they came up with mostly as an excuse for why the Federation mostly(if not completely) stopped using Titans MS designs and why they start showing up in Zeonic forces instead
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Dec 9, 2020 16:15
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drrockso20 posted:I think ZZ had established that a bunch of Titans survivors ended up joining Neo Zeon and it's various branches and offshoots since they weren't exactly going to turn down a bunch of capable pilots and Mobile Suits Yeah, it’s something that gets a passing mention in ZZ. IIRC, when it’s mentioned there’s a shot later in the series (When they are in Side 3?) that includes a bunch of Titan suits among the Neo Zeon stuff (My memory is there is a recolored green Marasai prominent among it?), and I think a few source books or whatever might have expanded on it, but ZZ usually doesn’t get the focus the other shows do. fartknocker fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 16:20
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MonoEyes too iconic as the bad guy machine.
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Dec 9, 2020 16:23
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tsob posted:Kind of unrelated, but the talk of Marida reminds me of when Unicorn originally started airing and how people on /m/ were so annoyed that Unicorn was retconning all the Puru clone's dying I'd like a surprise or two when I watch ZZ, just spoiler tag deaths please. When folks who haven't seen everything peruse a thread, it can go from talking about Try (stuff I'm not watching etc) to stuff I intend to watch (ZZ). So spoilers and the context can come out of left field in a general discussion topic. It's just good to cover the deaths with the spoiler tag at least. I see the first page says spoiler tags aren't necessary, but it also said to be considerate etc. And I mentioned ZZ spoilers just a bit above. Have mercy on fellow mecha war enthusiasts. And just for the record, oddly enough, ZZ is really the only show I'm avoiding spoilers for. Since it's the only classic Tomino show I haven't seen most of, and I'm watching the earlier stuff at the moment. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 17:27
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Onmi posted:Mineva wasn't even brought up past ZZ Gundam. Her only appearance after that is in a non-canon manga which crossed over with Ideon. Fukui has an obsession with charting Mineva's story though. Almost all his work features her. That's not a bad thing - she's an inherently very interesting character that old Gundam completely dropped the ball on
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Dec 9, 2020 17:53
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Zeta Gundam sure is balls to the wall, best Gundam series for me. I guess to me it not focusing on little kids isn't a bad thing, it's space war. The only ball Tomino was dropping on that show was... Haro could've had a richer arc I think.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:06
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Heavy Metal posted:I'd like a surprise or two when I watch ZZ, just spoiler tag deaths please. You're in a thread that is ~700 pages long, and you want spoilers for a series that is 30 years old. Bold strategy cotton.
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Dec 9, 2020 21:33
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The Notorious ZSB posted:You're in a thread that is ~700 pages long, and you want spoilers for a series that is 30 years old. Bold strategy cotton. the op says not to spoil series that a poster is currently watching tho
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Dec 9, 2020 21:44
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The Notorious ZSB posted:You're in a thread that is ~700 pages long, and you want spoilers for a series that is 30 years old. Bold strategy cotton. Don’t be a dick, he asked nicely.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:36
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