|
CPColin posted:BOTW2 is good and totally sticks the landing I didn't know it was out already.
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 01:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 00:55 |
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Piller left VOY after Season 2 so I'm not sure how much of what happened with VOY is his fault or not. The question wasn't how much Piller was responsible for Voyager's flaws (that was Berman, Braga, Ken Biller and to a lesser extent Taylor), the question was how much Piller was responsible for the storytelling structure and conventions of Trek television from 1989-2005 or so, and the answer is essentially, "he built the model."
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 02:04
|
|
|
Timby posted:The question wasn't how much Piller was responsible for Voyager's flaws (that was Berman, Braga, Ken Biller and to a lesser extent Taylor), the question was how much Piller was responsible for the storytelling structure and conventions of Trek television from 1989-2005 or so, and the answer is essentially, "he built the model."
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 02:08
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Yeah, Piller is pretty much the originator of the cozy 24th century formula. He also co-created Voyager, which Jeri Taylor ran in a similar style until Braga took over in season 5. A large part of the opening chapters of Fade In was Piller outlining exactly how that happened, describing it as falling into "Roddenberry's Box", and how he initially bristled against it because he thought it was basically death on television and no one would watch it, but he eventually found ways of subverting Roddenberry's Box while still staying inside of it--which got increasingly easier to get away with as Gene's health declined and he eventually died--to the point where he realized one day, almost to his horror that he had come to love living inside Roddenberry's Box. And part of his struggle with writing Insurrection, or at least his original drafts of it, was wrestling with his inclination to load Roddenberry's Box up with an assload of C4 and just blow that fucker up once and for all. For better or worse, post-Enterprise Trek finally succeeded in destroying Roddenberry's Box, and people are still coming to terms with it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 03:40
|
|
|
So I started on DS9 and I forgot how good the show is from the start, sure the last four seasons are some of the best TV ever but the early seasons are good in their own way. The characters and factions have desire, dreams, contradictions and past sins that everyone is dealing with. I really enjoyed how Progress and The Homecoming dealt with the legacy of the Cardasian occupations and Profit and Loss was great riff on Casablanca.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 05:26
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:OK so it was a legitimate concern by the studio that he might bail? Yeah, not just the cliffhanger setup but Shelby was there so they they had the option of putting Riker in as Captain and Shelby as the new first officer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 10:18
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:However, since the pilot they have only run into new DQ species twice, one being the Vidiians. The Kazon haven't reappeared yet (this is as of Episode 6). Really? It took that many episodes for the Kazon to come back? It felt like they were constantly ahead of Voyager, or just behind them, or nearby, lurking somehow. I read an article once about how they were written out after season 2 because it felt like they were standing still in the Delta Quadrant, what with the constant reappearances of the same exact secs of Kazon over and over (that early on, Voyager was established as being faster than, and by all means, should have outrun them ages prior) I think now, looking back on it, the lack of any kind of...escalating or evolving conflict between the Voyager crew is the real disappointment of Voyager. (aside from the lack of a real epilogue. they should have gotten home an episode or three earlier) The nature of the premise is a constant stream of new aliens and cultures, with the threat of the Borg looming in the distance at the start, and the eventual reality of coming in from the WRONG side of the Romulans and Klingons once you hit the Beta quadrant leg of the journey. With the constantly changing exterior conflicts, the interior conflicts should have really been way more of a focus. The Maquis thing was 100% squandered, there's very little conflict outside of the joke relationship between Tuvok and Neelix, and the early Seven vs. Everyone Else. I can easily see Tom and Chakotay butting heads, leading to B'Elanna in a weird spot between them, and yet the three of them barely have any interaction that isn't a conference about the time hole they've fallen into that week. There's so many differing personalities and interconnections that got halfway built and then left to stagnate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 12:17
|
|
|
BOBW2 doesn't totally stick the landing, but it's a solid "good enough". I think it's sort of built into the cliffhanger format that you tease something that basically can't possibly happen the way it looks like it will, and part of the fun is seeing how they weasel out of it. It's not the most pure way to tell a story, but it sure is fun. It sucks when they do it too much, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 14:17
|
|
|
Yeah but the Maquis were always lame
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 14:36
|
|
|
curiousTerminal posted:Really? It took that many episodes for the Kazon to come back? It felt like they were constantly ahead of Voyager, or just behind them, or nearby, lurking somehow. I read an article once about how they were written out after season 2 because it felt like they were standing still in the Delta Quadrant, what with the constant reappearances of the same exact secs of Kazon over and over (that early on, Voyager was established as being faster than, and by all means, should have outrun them ages prior) The Kazon were only in 13 episodes (plus twice as holograms). Though it is more than the Viidians (8) and Hirogen (9).
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 16:36
|
|
|
Technowolf posted:The Kazon were only in 13 episodes (plus twice as holograms). God it felt like so much more than that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 17:17
|
|
|
Remember when Kes bumped Voyager thousands of light years closer to home in one episode and it didn't change the species the crew was encountering at all? The Malon's waste disposal empire must be really successful!
No Dignity fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Dec 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 17:36
|
|
|
multijoe posted:Remember when Kes bumped Yoyager thousands of light years closer to home in one episode and it didn't change the species the crew was encountering at all? The Malon's waste disposal empire must be really successful! Yeah, that wasn't really a "fridge logic where you realize the discrepancy later while getting milk from the fridge" discrepancy, either, and then I was like "well, I like the Malon as a faction and this episode's better than average, at least  "
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 17:48
|
|
|
I really wish Voyager in season 7 started running into remote Romulan colonies. That would have been a fun source of conflict trying to figure out how the Federation is coming at them from the opposite direction now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 17:52
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure there's a giant wall between the quadrants based on how they're portrayed
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 17:57
|
|
|
Brawnfire posted:I'm pretty sure there's a giant wall between the quadrants based on how they're portrayed Well how else are you going to keep the Alpha quadrant from taking your jobs? When Starfleet sends scouts, they’re not sending their best..
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:I didn't know it was out already. Best of Those Worlds
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 19:27
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:I really wish Voyager... This is all that needs to be said.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2020 19:28
|
|
|
I'm rewatching The Next Generation for the first time since I was a kid and it fuckin' kicks rear end. I'm still only in season 2, and I know that season 1 was seen as the show still trying to find its footing. How long does the good period of the show run for? I love how much they lean on diplomacy and reasoning things out, understanding and being careful to take one another's differences into account. It's a really soothing show to watch a lot of the time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:10
|
|
|
Traditionally, seasons 3-6 are seen as the run with almost no bad episodes, though 2 and 7 aren't devoid of great episodes themselves.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:16
|
|
|
I really enjoyed the Hotel Royale episode, Loud as a Whisper, Contagion, a Matter of Honor, and obviously, Measure of a Man. I only have dim memories of watching the show as a kid, I think on USA, and half the time being bored, but half the time being really, really comforted. I always liked Riker thanks to his handsome, trim beard. I'm sure that dozens of people have had this same kind of "Oh, TNG is on Netflix and the lockdown super sucks, I should watch this" and then barrel on into these threads to say how TNG is so good. But things have been lovely in the world and around my headspace, and I've found some real soothing comfort in Picard and Riker and Troi and Data. Worf is a little less reassuring but I have really, really enjoyed the Klingon-centric episodes. I was not expecting them to handle the Klingon culture so well, and they're a lot of fun. If this season is okay-to-great, and the next season is great-to-awesome, I am really lookin' forward to getting into season 3.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:21
|
|
|
Honestly Season 7's problem is that there are so many forgettable episodes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:25
|
|
|
I love the writing of the little human moments between Riker and Picard. I'm watching Pen Pals right now, and Picard and Riker were just talking about how much they are loving up the Prime Directive by helping this pre-spacetravel civilization. Riker went to go move the plot on, and Picard stopped him to ask "Know where we are now?" And motions "up to their necks in it". poo poo, the writing/acting on this show was so good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:28
|
|
|
I personally love season 7 since they start to just get weird with things.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:28
|
|
|
Data, the prime directive is there for a reason  I have been watching old ads every couple of episodes just to get a touch of that late-night TV vibe. I should probably do three ads per episode break, but that one might kill me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:35
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Traditionally, seasons 3-6 are seen as the run with almost no bad episodes, though 2 and 7 aren't devoid of great episodes themselves. I think the second half of season 5 is when the show starts to go downhill, although it will take most people a long time to notice. Not that it ever gets bad, but the problems that everyone recognizes in season 7 start to appear earlier if you're watching a second time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:39
|
|
|
I’ll do you one better and say, aside from the obvious super high highs, season 5 of TNG is a bit of a slog.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:42
|
|
|
No don't watch the show, instead use this guide I made that gets you though the entire run in 37 minutes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 03:47
|
|
|
Boxturret posted:No don't watch the show, instead use this guide I made that gets you though the entire run in 37 minutes. Nah I'm gonna use the show as the one thing to keep me sane as I go through an ever-mounting death toll all around me through a time of year that I typically hate while I'm afraid I'm gonna kill my grandma by going to work, all while knowing the huge corporation who bought my work out intends to lay me off and send my job to another country as soon as this new factory can figure out how to do my job for cheap TNG and weed
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 04:11
|
|
|
I finally got around to watching Lower Decks, and it is loving fantastic. It's fun, it's energetic, it's funny, it's really well animated in ways I can't fully pin down without further rewatching, but I'm a big fan of the rimlighting. It's also some great performances from some good voice actors. I think it has hands down the absolute best technobabble I've seen in Star Trek. Like for the most part, it's a joke. Two characters are absolute dweebs who are big fans of all the specifics and technical junk, but it's not really unrealistic, there are people who are similarly obsessed about real-world technology, and people who are fans of a fictional technology would definitely sound weird. It's even interesting that the other characters have little weird obsessions with things like the warp core. Additionally, in the one episode that hinged on some technical junk, they just slid in there that the thing they were working on was a shield thingy beforehand so you could easily know what that meant when the shield started getting hit later. That's how you do technical jargon exposition. Of the things I don't like, I think they kinda overdid the in-world referencing in a way that both made the world seem kinda small and didn't make sense, like sure Khan was a badass, but in-world they should know more about the fact that he was turbohitler long before he fought Kirk. I'm still not a fan of their tiny, tiny hands.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 04:25
|
|
|
I really like Mariner and I like Boimler. I realized I don’t give a poo poo about the other two leads, though. Overall, best Trek in years in my opinion. Less I hate about it than Voyager, but nothing in LD so far is as good as The Doctor or even Seven of Nine. Edit: rotinaj, let us know when you get to DS9. :p
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 05:23
|
|
|
Boimler is such a perfectly stupid name that perfectly fits the character.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 05:44
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Boimler is such a perfectly stupid name that perfectly fits the character. Bradward
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 06:20
|
|
|
I just remembered my favorite part of the show, which I thought really captured the optimism that’s been missing from recent shows. Setup is the engineer guy is transferring to different jobs in one episode to find himself (kind of). Anyway, everyone is always super supportive in the new job (including characters that are sometimes jerks) and every time he tells his boss he’s quitting because it’s not for him, everyone is SUPER PUMPED that he’s realized something about himself and is making a decision that will make him happier.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 06:31
|
|
|
LD is made by people who are actual fans of Berman-era Trek and it shows They are also able to poke fun at the rest of Trek in a fun but loving way. The sequence where they recreate the part in TMP where the Enterprise refit is introduced had me rolling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 07:24
|
|
|
Agree. It’s not perfect, but it’s heart is in the right place.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 07:56
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:...like sure Khan was a badass, but in-world they should know more about the fact that he was turbohitler long before he fought Kirk. I don't know, if Napoleon came back to life, broke into a secret military base and stole a nuclear missile before he was stopped, the average Joe would probably be more familiar with that than the Treaty of Vienna.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 08:01
|
|
|
Pascallion posted:I just remembered my favorite part of the show, which I thought really captured the optimism that’s been missing from recent shows. That's such a  plotline.The best part is that the reason he's looking for a new job is because he promised he'd watch a pulsar with the medical ensign who he totally doesn't have a crush on, because he promised he'd do it and his work schedule wouldn't allow it. By the end he's realised he loves engineering too much to quit and apologises to her, and she's like 'no problem! I'll come hang out with you in the jeffries tubes and watch it on my PADD!' The TenFord relationship is so goddamn wholesome.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 08:08
|
|
|
TenFordWard
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 09:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 00:55 |
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:It's actually not awful. Although they did a whole convoluted thing to bring Janeway back from the dead that I still don't even entirely understand. It can't be worse than the Shatner novel where Kirk is brought back from the dead
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2020 10:42
|
|
