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nine-gear crow posted:Also the Romulans of all people had a delegation at the signing of the Khitomer Accords. Pretty sure anyone who wanted to could show up and chip in ideas as part of the “negotiations”.
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Dec 22, 2020 20:19
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so was the Sword of Kahless magic and it made Worf and Kor act the way they did, or are we supposed to believe circumstances made them both act like jerks?
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Dec 22, 2020 22:12
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It was a religious and cultural relic with massive importance to their culture. Imagine finding like the Chinese Imperial Seal or the Ark of the Covenant today. Sure, maybe most people wouldn't give a gently caress but some people would go apeshit over it.
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Dec 22, 2020 22:28
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8one6 posted:It was a religious and cultural relic with massive importance to their culture. If I remember correctly, the writer of the episode was astonished to learn that so many fans had assumed the sword must be emitting psionic waves or baloneytron particles or something to make the characters act all weird and jealous, when that was never the intention. Personally, I think you can look at it either way and it'll still work fine. Choose your headcanon.
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Dec 22, 2020 22:44
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Powered Descent posted:baloneytron particles Braga, burned out and coked up circa Voyager season 6: “gently caress it, use that”
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Dec 22, 2020 22:53
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Powered Descent posted:If I remember correctly, the writer of the episode was astonished to learn that so many fans had assumed the sword must be emitting psionic waves or baloneytron particles or something to make the characters act all weird and jealous, when that was never the intention. This is right - the writers thought it would take something away from their motivations if the sword was literally magic.
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Dec 22, 2020 23:00
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Timeless Appeal posted:I mean that makes a lot of sense though. Romulan space borders Federation and Klingon Space. For an Empire whose defining characteristic is their border with the Federation, the Federation suddenly having access to a new border feels like a huge deal and something the Romulans would start a war over. Also I looked up the Romulan ambassador from Star Trek 6 on Memory Alpha to make that poo poo post and apparently there's a bunch of cut or inferred content that basically says he's actually the real villain of the movie who orchestrated the whole conspiracy because it would result in a weakened Federation and Klingon Empire and an ascendant Romulus and nobody tweaks to it because Chang is such a bombastic oxygen devouring rear end in a top hat he commands all the attention. It thought that was a pretty neat detail.
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Dec 22, 2020 23:09
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nine-gear crow posted:Also I looked up the Romulan ambassador from Star Trek 6 on Memory Alpha to make that poo poo post and apparently there's a bunch of cut or inferred content that basically says he's actually the real villain of the movie who orchestrated the whole conspiracy because it would result in a weakened Federation and Klingon Empire and an ascendant Romulus and nobody tweaks to it because Chang is such a bombastic oxygen devouring rear end in a top hat he commands all the attention. It thought that was a pretty neat detail. Hmmm. I like it but I think it's stronger without this detail. It would have taken it from "the enemy is war itself" to just another "there's another even worse bad guy pulling the strings." It diminishes the motivations of the Fed/Klingon conspirators. Plus it weakens the irony/social commentary of enemies working together in secret so they can keep fighting one another. Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Dec 22, 2020 |
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Dec 22, 2020 23:23
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Valaris names the Romulan Ambassador as a conspirator so it's still in the film that he's involved in an unstated way. It's just a little subtle thing that's in there.
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Dec 22, 2020 23:27
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Alchenar posted:Valaris names the Romulan Ambassador as a conspirator so it's still in the film that he's involved in an unstated way. It's just a little subtle thing that's in there. Yeah, I like the detail that he was in the mix because it makes the world of the film seem a little bigger, just not the notion that he was the ultimate puppetmaster behind the whole thing.
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Dec 22, 2020 23:32
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multijoe posted:Really Starfleet should have just rolled up several fleets, parked them outside the wormhole and put up a NO ENTRY sign on the other side. After the Dominion destroy the Odyssey there's no reason to treat them as anything other than an openly hostile power and IIRC they never even make attempts to simmer down relations with the Federation prior to the war You also got the concern that doing this makes the Cardassians go "Why are you stationing a large battle fleet this close to our borders?" probably followed by "Oh, the Federation is CRUELLY forcing us to (go reconquer Bajor/conquer someone else/bomb Betazed) by the presence of their naval buildup!" And of course the moment the feds go to deal with that bullshit, that is when the Dominion attacks.
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Dec 22, 2020 23:45
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Yeah, I like the detail that he was in the mix because it makes the world of the film seem a little bigger, just not the notion that he was the ultimate puppetmaster behind the whole thing. Yeah, the implication I take is that Chang and Cartwright sat down the Romulan Ambassador and said something like "We're going to throw down. Here's the plot so you don't start freaking out over the heads of state of the Federation and Klingon Empire's getting assassinated, also don't make the mistake of thinking we're going to fall into chaos and you can take advantage of it - the transfer of power has already been worked out. Just stay the gently caress out of our fight and don't say anything".
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Dec 22, 2020 23:55
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8one6 posted:It was a religious and cultural relic with massive importance to their culture. I think if you found the Ark of the Covenant and it started killing people who touch it or making the River Jordan dry up, everyone would go apeshit over it.
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Dec 23, 2020 00:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBFKsp0EglA
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Dec 23, 2020 00:11
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HD DAD posted:Braga, burned out and coked up circa Voyager season 6: “gently caress it, use that” Season 6, nothing. "WARP PARTICLES!!"
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Dec 23, 2020 00:56
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Powered Descent posted:If I remember correctly, the writer of the episode was astonished to learn that so many fans had assumed the sword must be emitting psionic waves or baloneytron particles or something to make the characters act all weird and jealous, when that was never the intention. Well, you know, Worf has always been clearly set up as the kind of guy who'd betray and murder a comrade for his own personal glory, so it's weird people thought he was under some alien influence.
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Dec 23, 2020 03:56
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are we supposed to believe Leyton had that one Red Squad cadet offed in "Paradise Lost", or do we think he really got sent away from Earth?
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Dec 23, 2020 04:01
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Nodosaur posted:are we supposed to believe Leyton had that one Red Squad cadet offed in "Paradise Lost", or do we think he really got sent away from Earth? he shows up in "Valiant" in season 6 and gets offed by the dominion. it also doesnt really mesh with leyton's character to kill off his loyal starfleet cadet force. he probably literally sent them off on a training exercise (or to do more terrorism) to get them away from sisko's questioning
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Dec 23, 2020 04:22
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Fair enough. Ah, the Shakaar/Kira plotline. You can tell it was just done to draw out the plot with her and Odo, on account they forgot to give him a personality.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:24
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For some reason, I keep thinking Kyle MacLachlan would have made a really good Bajoran Love Interest of the Week.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:31
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Nodosaur posted:Fair enough. they gave kira some fuckin terrible love interests. somehow they managed to make a soft-spoken basically pacifist monk that capitulates to the main villain and a tall handsome grizzled terrorist cell leader that clobbers her out of the exact same cardboard visitor actually acts them out too she doesnt phone it in, kinda feel bad for her
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Dec 23, 2020 04:34
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Kira should've been visited by the sex ghost
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Dec 23, 2020 04:40
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I'm pretty sure the fact that there are trill who were born and raised on their homeworld in Starfleet implies that they're part of the Federation. Worf is only part of Starfleet because of some weird circumstances and being adopted
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Dec 23, 2020 04:41
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Verviticus posted:they gave kira some fuckin terrible love interests. somehow they managed to make a soft-spoken basically pacifist monk that capitulates to the main villain and a tall handsome grizzled terrorist cell leader that clobbers her out of the exact same cardboard I mean Dax did offer to set her up with Captain Boday but Kira refused so she’s not doing herself any favours either.
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Dec 23, 2020 05:38
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm pretty sure the fact that there are trill who were born and raised on their homeworld in Starfleet implies that they're part of the Federation. Ezri is explicitly from a non-Federation world and she's in Starfleet. The Federation probably has lots of immigrants? It's a pretty nice place to live.
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Dec 23, 2020 06:19
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McSpanky posted:Kira should've been visited by the sex ghost 
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Dec 23, 2020 06:39
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In my fan fiction, the candle ghost is explained to be a lost rogue Changeling who assumes a gaseous state and is bound to the candle as punishment for attempting to seduce Kevin Uxbridge's wife
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Dec 23, 2020 08:05
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"Rules of Engagement" is a stupid episode.
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Dec 23, 2020 08:06
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Nodosaur posted:Fair enough. Actually, I remember reading that the writers more or less invented Shakaar because they regretted killing Li Nalas off in that 3-episode arc that begins season 2 - if you recall, Richard Beymer (who is legitimately talented and a badass and probably most well-known as Benjamin Horne on Twin Peaks) played that character, and actually pulled off the whole "soft-spoken with an oversized reputation" thing that Shakaar failed at. Kinda makes sense when you think about it that way. I think it was something like that Beymer would only do the role if it was *just* those 3 episodes, and they wanted him badly enough for the role that they figured "We can figure something else out aside from making Li Nalas Prime Minister!" but clearly they couldn't, in the end, hence Shakaar.
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Dec 23, 2020 08:26
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McSpanky posted:Kira should've been visited by the sex ghost Instead she gets midnight calls from Dukat telling her that he hosed her mom.
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Dec 23, 2020 08:30
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Fister Roboto posted:Instead she gets midnight calls from Dukat telling her that he hosed her mom. Sexghost, not sexpest 
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Dec 23, 2020 08:32
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kaworu posted:Actually, I remember reading that the writers more or less invented Shakaar because they regretted killing Li Nalas off in that 3-episode arc that begins season 2 - if you recall, Richard Beymer (who is legitimately talented and a badass and probably most well-known as Benjamin Horne on Twin Peaks) played that character, and actually pulled off the whole "soft-spoken with an oversized reputation" thing that Shakaar failed at. Kinda makes sense when you think about it that way. I think it was something like that Beymer would only do the role if it was *just* those 3 episodes, and they wanted him badly enough for the role that they figured "We can figure something else out aside from making Li Nalas Prime Minister!" but clearly they couldn't, in the end, hence Shakaar. That makes sense; it definitely feels like Li Nalas, Bareil, and Shakaar are different drafts of the same character. Except the first draft was the best one. Shakaar did seem to have more personality in his first episode when he had the different hair.
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Dec 23, 2020 14:17
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What always bugged me was that in the early DS9 episodes, Kira would refer to fighting in "The Shakaar". And it sounded cool, like maybe Shakaar is the Bajoran word for resistance or rebellion, or it's some cultural or religious term; the equivalent of Hezbollah or Hamas. But, nope, turns out it's just some guy's name. And her resistance cell was basically just "Bob's Rebels".
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Dec 23, 2020 14:30
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Angry Salami posted:What always bugged me was that in the early DS9 episodes, Kira would refer to fighting in "The Shakaar". And it sounded cool, like maybe Shakaar is the Bajoran word for resistance or rebellion, or it's some cultural or religious term; the equivalent of Hezbollah or Hamas. Also probably not a good idea to name a resistance cell after its leader.
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Dec 23, 2020 14:44
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Angry_Ed posted:Also probably not a good idea to name a resistance cell after its leader.
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Dec 23, 2020 14:59
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McSpanky posted:Season 6, nothing. "WARP PARTICLES!!" I think Warp Particles was from S1E2
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Dec 23, 2020 15:11
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But seriously, “Rules of Engagement” has a Klingon lawyer who fails to make a case based on evidence and focuses entirely on Worf’s feelings. If that wasn’t enough, we’re supposed to believe it looks bad for Worf when his judgement comes down to a Vulcan of all people not only tolerating this guy’s constant ad hominem stunts, but that it also convinces her he might be guilty. I’m sorry but... no, I just don’t like it. There’s also the whole premise asking us to forget space isn’t 2D, but that’s normal for Star Trek.
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Dec 23, 2020 15:37
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Angry Salami posted:What always bugged me was that in the early DS9 episodes, Kira would refer to fighting in "The Shakaar". And it sounded cool, like maybe Shakaar is the Bajoran word for resistance or rebellion, or it's some cultural or religious term; the equivalent of Hezbollah or Hamas. On the other hand, the entire Maccabean Revolt is named after Judas Maccabeus.
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Dec 23, 2020 15:45
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HD DAD posted:For some reason, I keep thinking Kyle MacLachlan would have made a really good Bajoran Love Interest of the Week. This would have ruled. And might still rule even though they’re both now senior citizens
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Dec 23, 2020 15:59
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I wish the guy who played Li Nalas had stuck around, I thought he was good Bareil was too drat bland and Shakaar only made like 2/3 appearances so I could never get a good opinion on him
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Dec 23, 2020 16:04
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