|
But again, the Germans weren't portrayed that way. The Germans wanted peace.
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 02:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 08:33 |
|
|
NieR Occomata posted:This is a dumb argument not only because literal actual comics have been doing this for half a century now, but also because the actual movie actually made this a central issue and then completely hosed up the execution. If they wanted to make a movie all about them evil 1918 era Germans being all evil and committing war crimes (that literally every nation was perpetuating, whatever), that’s fine. But instead it wanted to be a movie about how actually all sides are bad when it was incapable of portraying the Germans as anything but Nazis Lite. If they didn’t want the movie to be criticized for being historically inaccurate and being revisionist maybe don’t tread in those waters and attempt to be something more high minded than it was. But people in this thread have literally gone and shown how the German weren't seen as "Nazi Lite" but as people fighting in a war that was being propagated by the literal god of war. The Germans were getting ready to sign a cease fire, repulsed by the chemical weapon etc. Again though this is a movie about the literal god of war aiding but not fully influencing things and people in this thread are "well actually Germany was never influenced by the god of war and also Nazis in world war I". The movie never set out to be Germans are evil and the, again, literal, god of war was introduced aiding the British war effort in the first place (he was aiding all the war efforts as well)
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 03:09
|
|
|
Ares' influence on the allied side amounted to trying to get them to sign an armistice with the Germans.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 03:55
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Ares' influence on the allied side amounted to trying to get them to sign an armistice with the Germans. Except they make a point that the man Ares is pretending to be isn't well respected, or listened to. Almost as if he was intentionally working to slow it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 04:02
|
|
|
Ares' behavior only really makes sense if you take him at his word. He's trying to negotiate an armistice while whispering in the ears of the German scientists to mess up the peace by making a strike with the super mustard gas while also giving Steve Trevor the financial means to go try and stop it and get Diana to the front line. Its all completely contradictory and it only really makes sense if you assume he's doing what he says he's doing. Just loving with people and giving them the means for war and peace to prove that they just choose war anyway. And trying to manipulate Diana by showing her the evils of war and man and twist her to his way of seeing things. It doesn't really make sense for him to be trying to start or extend the war based on his actions. I imagine he's confident if the peace happens another war will come soon enough. He's just playing games, especially once Diana enters the picture. Because gods are mercurial pricks. They just bobbled the ball at the 5 yard line with that whole "war just happens to end when Ares dies" thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 04:12
|
|
|
I do have to give that when Spud does not want to kill anyone the movie does not treat him as a coward or a failure, but everyone accepts that yea, he's too traumatized to snipe anymore. Which is actually ahistorical because the British loooooooooooooved executing men for Cowardness, which we'd call PTSD today. There's a ton to criticize about WW84's middle eastern stuff, to a point that the movie should have probably not even bothered to do it, that being said, I've seen way too many people who clearly have not watched the movie straight up saying "oh yea Wonder Woman fires a rocket at some Muslim kids" or "The movie shows her trying to kill some middle eastern children" and such. Steve shoots the rpg, she lassos it, and you can clearly see it explode on the side of the road long before (at least in context of the scene) the kids show up. Also I think maybe Gal Gadot might just be a bad actress?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 04:26
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:They just bobbled the ball at the 5 yard line with that whole "war just happens to end when Ares dies" thing. He wasn't using war powers on the soldiers, but when you kill the god of war it creates a war vacuum and any war in the vicinity rushes in to fill it. The soldiers had the war sucked right out of them. Like detonating a bomb underwater. It's science.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 04:43
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I do have to give that when Spud does not want to kill anyone the movie does not treat him as a coward or a failure, but everyone accepts that yea, he's too traumatized to snipe anymore. Which is actually ahistorical because the British loooooooooooooved executing men for Cowardness, which we'd call PTSD today. Not saying executions didn't happen but Shell Shock was the term for PTSD at the time and was an acknowledged mental disorder caused by battle stress by both the French and the English. Enough so that treatment facilities were built as close to the front as they dared so administer psychological treatment as fast as possible to those afflicted. The treatments were usually horse tranquillizers and shock therapy but it was a recognized phenomenon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 05:03
|
|
|
Yea from what I recall it was generally the French (might have been the Brits as well) who executed people for desertion or purposely injuring themselves. Shell shock though was treated but the idea was "get these men better so they can go back to the field and fight again".
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 05:07
|
|
|
WW84's unforgivable sin is making a 2 and a half hour action movie, that only has 3 poorly staged action sequences. FilthyImp posted:Also her interaction with Wino Man once she's empowered obviously shows the loss of humanity/humility/empathy, but I think it also sets her up in comparison with Diana, who doesn't needlessly injure bad guys and has a general handle on the responsibility/burden her abilities carry
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 05:20
|
|
|
having watched WW84 yesterday, I find myself agreeing with most of the criticisms I’ve seen of it over the past few days (too long, racist, an inert performance from Gadot, inconsistent internal logic, unclear character motivations, etc)... and yet I actually kinda enjoyed it? I dunno
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 05:24
|
|
|
I fell asleep for like five minutes right after Lord strong-armed Not-Reagan and I don’t think I missed anything of importance.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 05:33
|
|
|
DynamicSloth posted:WW84's unforgivable sin is making a 2 and a half hour action movie, that only has 3 poorly staged action sequences. At the very least she could have waked her friend home and offer emotional support after a that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 05:34
|
|
|
Diana has also blown way past Captain Marvel in the power creep arms race into solid Silver Age Super man territory Diana, in all of 12 seconds, teaches herself how to make anything she want invisible with her bare hands.JT Smiley posted:At the very least she could have waked her friend home and offer emotional support after a that. I know! She just tells her to go home and she'll teach her Krav Maga later, then watches as Barbara heads towards the Smithsonian and not her home.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 05:49
|
|
|
Alhazred posted:It's honestly weird how DC is unable to make good movies about characters that isn't Batman related. Most times they can't even do that!
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 07:34
|
|
|
DynamicSloth posted:Diana has also blown way past Captain Marvel in the power creep arms race into solid Silver Age Super man territory Diana, in all of 12 seconds, teaches herself how to make anything she want invisible with her bare hands. She specifically said she had been practicing it and had done it successfully before, she just didn't know how long it would last.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 07:58
|
|
|
Well...that still really straddles the line of them having kinda justified it and yet it still really isn't all that justified.  Your regular superheroes can go home and practice making something invisible all they want but it probably won't do much. At the end it mostly boils down to Diana being half-god so she's just magical somehow and can kinda just...learn to do magic spells by practicing them and stuff. Y'know what, I think there's so many things in this movie that don't make sense that I've looped all the way around to kinda liking it again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 08:34
|
|
|
CzarChasm posted:"Marvel is like a tank. DC is like a Taxi with no one behind the wheel" "Hey hey hey it's time to make some CRAZY movies, are ya ready?" -WB/DC producers
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 08:48
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:"Hey hey hey it's time to make some CRAZY movies, are ya ready?" NO NO NO NO NO
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 10:56
|
|
|
Maybe they'll have JK Rowling write one
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 13:55
|
|
|
CzarChasm posted:I've heard recently a quote from someone who worked for the big two. It's a few years old at this point, but I just heard it last week. What they could really use is a Kevin Feige (Ha! No, Geoff Johns, not you. Never you), but I think somebody at WB or many somebodies would blanch at somebody having that much stroke.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 16:13
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Maybe they'll have JK Rowling write one Don't say things like that. They might hear you!!
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 17:41
|
|
|
Barry Convex posted:having watched WW84 yesterday, I find myself agreeing with most of the criticisms I’ve seen of it over the past few days (too long, racist, an inert performance from Gadot, inconsistent internal logic, unclear character motivations, etc)... and yet I actually kinda enjoyed it? I dunno There's nothing wrong with enjoying a movie in spite of it's faults. If you enjoyed WW84, then that's a good thing. You managed to find entertainment where others did not.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 17:42
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1344324757290950657
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 19:41
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:It's definitely kinda weird that these films have to play around the setup of WW being a secret figure that's been hidden all these years, but she's also just out there in full costume all the time talking with everyone, she doesn't wear a mask, she led a siege into the White House??, and also she uses the exact same name -- Diana Prince -- in World War I, in the 80s, and also the 00s, doing apparently the exact same vocation. no no, she did the SHHH signal to that one little girl, so it's all good edit: oh hey, I had that tab open for a bit, whoops. Soonmot fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2020 22:10
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:She specifically said she had been practicing it and had done it successfully before, she just didn't know how long it would last. She specifically said she had done it once before with a coffee mug and her powers are supposed to be fading at this point. Everything involved in the plane stuff is dumb. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jan 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2021 04:58
|
|
|
I didn't mind the invisible part, I just thought it was weird that that plane was fully fueled and somehow flew directly from DC to Egypt or they just skipped over the part where they had to invisibly land and steal fuel from somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2021 07:32
|
|
|
Lobok posted:I didn't mind the invisible part, I just thought it was weird that that plane was fully fueled and somehow flew directly from DC to Egypt or they just skipped over the part where they had to invisibly land and steal fuel from somewhere. The longer the movie went on, the more people seemed to just instantly teleport to whatever place the plot needed them to be irrespective of location or time of day or the fact that you can't get jet fuel at a gas station
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2021 02:20
|
|
|
SlimGoodbody posted:The longer the movie went on, the more people seemed to just instantly teleport to whatever place the plot needed them to be irrespective of location or time of day or the fact that you can't get jet fuel at a gas station The weirdest travel part to me was when she learned how to fly and was soaring through the clouds for a while and then started swinging via thunderbolts but all of that was just to get across town.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2021 02:44
|
|
|
The lightning bolts stuff was really just for the vibes. The aesthetics, man. There's also that one really weird scene where Diana, Steve, and Barbara all phone each other to meet up at this one random guy's place to find out from this completely arbitrary character how the Dreamstone connects to the Mayan collapse but like...there's no narrative or structural reason why they couldn't just have found that out from Barbara's research and just met at their office anyway to have the requisite exposition. I think there was supposed to be some plot thread about how Max found out about the stone from this random guy and had hired the goons to try to steal it at the mall, but it's only really halfway in this film, so random guy just doesn't actually add anything important. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jan 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2021 03:42
|
|
|
Saw WW84 and it was not the worst movie in the world but that's probably because I spent a week reading about it. There were some neat ideas in there but the script needed to be refined and it could have been trimmed down. There's no reason this movie should be 2.5 hours long. The big things that were annoyingly unclear were why Max Lord needed to keep granting wishes and why did they have Steve posses a person instead of just appearing. There was no reason to do it that way! It's so needlessly complicated. Gaunab fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jan 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2021 06:54
|
|
|
Agreed. Just watched it. Its flawed and not great and honestly very silly and if I started pulling at threads it would probably unravel quickly. But the internet hyperbole seems way out of whack. Its just kind of dumb, but in large part feels purposely so like a dumb silver age comic. And that kind of feels like the overall evolution of the DCEU from the days of Snyder's films to stuff like Aquaman, Shazam, and Birds of Prey. They just all seem to be getting a lot looser and sillier. Its way too long but I didn't really notice that while I was watching. But probably too long for me to want to rewatch any time soon. But like, its just kinda dumb fun I'd probably watch again sometime if someone asked me to or when WW3 comes out or something. And I repeat, I don't care that Jenkins clearly is doing all but saying "I'm ignoring that dumb thing about her hiding from the world and neglecting it for 100 years" because whatever. That was stupidly short sighted and there's no real way to get around it without handicapping the character terribly without handwavey explanations or magic. So whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2021 08:07
|
|
|
I can accept that Wonder Woman didn't advertise herself, so she popped up, did her thing then vanished and people would wonder who that woman was, but she didn't advertise like Batman or make sure everyone saw them like Superman. Like a band that has a one monster hit but goes away but never really stops making music and has a loyal fanbase.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2021 10:58
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:wonder who that woman was ohohoho
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2021 11:24
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I can accept that Wonder Woman didn't advertise herself, so she popped up, did her thing then vanished and people would wonder who that woman was, but she didn't advertise like Batman or make sure everyone saw them like Superman. Yeah, I think I accept it as like maybe she's an urban legend or something. But 1984 is before cable news or the internet or social media so it just becomes something people half remember and maybe there's some grainy VHS cassettes floating around. But honestly, the DCEU's past feels poorly fleshed out. Like its kind of implied everyone knows Batman is a thing but also Batman and Alfred reference to Joker and his villains so like was Gotham having all this comic book madness for decades? It just kind of feels like a symptom of diving into the deep end first so there wasn't a ton of foundation settled to build from. The actual event of the film is kind of funny because like I'm imagining a ton of old people telling their kids that this one day in the 80s everything went completely insane until a glowing gold light came on tv and told them to be true or something. The plot's so barely hanging on to being coherent it would never stand up to decades of bad memory scrutiny. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2021 20:43
|
|
|
I think the DCCU version of Batman (Batfleck) is supposed to be an older Batman who has gone through a ton of poo poo? Although now the upcoming The Batman seems to be heavily inspired by Batman Year One. I think that's going to be a separate continuity?
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2021 00:53
|
|
|
The multiverse will make all batmen continuitous
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2021 01:14
|
|
|
There's also apparently a new Keaton Batman in the works
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2021 01:15
|
|
|
I read that post out of the corner of my eye at first so I was really disappointed to discover that it is not, in fact, a Kate Beaton Batman movie
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2021 01:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 08:33 |
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I think the DCCU version of Batman (Batfleck) is supposed to be an older Batman who has gone through a ton of poo poo? Although now the upcoming The Batman seems to be heavily inspired by Batman Year One. I think that's going to be a separate continuity? Yeah, the Batfleck Batman is supppsed to be partially inspired by Dark Knight Returns. The Batman better do the scene where Batman crashes Falcone’s dinner party.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2021 01:30
|
|
