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Continuity NIP posted:Admit you just googled Greggs nonce I did
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Dec 31, 2020 08:41
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Vitamin P posted:Holy poo poo thank you so much for posting that, he did the funniest possible response. Wine-drunk Murray angry posting the reply, being genuinely incoherent and strongly implying he wants to send his largest nephew to you for a ruck god drat. I don't want to take anything away from how funny that email is, or how much of a colossal, obnoxious, utterly useless prick Ian Murray is, but just for the sake of accuracy the (weirdly phrased) line about the address is because he's (drunkenly and aggressively) suggesting that marktheando isn't a constituent and therefore is a Momentum thug/Russian bot who can and should be ignored. If Murray wasn't too tired and emotional to remember writing the email, I wouldn't be surprised if he mentions in some interview about the "abuse" he has been getting from the intolerant left.
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Dec 31, 2020 09:03
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feedmegin posted:Lizard. Wizard?
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Dec 31, 2020 09:19
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endlessmonotony posted:Wizard? Queen Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard?
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Dec 31, 2020 09:20
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Failed Imagineer posted:Queen Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard? How'd you find my harry potter fanfic
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Dec 31, 2020 09:25
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:How'd you find my harry potter fanfic Searched for "Corbyn" on any given erotic fanfiction repository?
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Dec 31, 2020 09:31
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 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/us-brexit-trade-deal-antibiotics-meat-drug-b1780438.html US-reared animals whose meat is set to be imported under post-Brexit trade deals are fed 10 antibiotics banned in the UK, potentially undermining treatments for infections, cancer and even coronavirus, a report has warned. Bringing the meat into the UK would be a seriously backward step in the fight against antibiotic resistance, and consuming the meat itself could create a cancer risk, according to the Sustainable Food Trust (SFT.)
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Dec 31, 2020 09:35
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sebzilla posted:Blair, Brown, Cameron, May makes four? I thought they were including BoJo too.
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Dec 31, 2020 09:42
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OwlFancier posted:Do I even want to know why he's checked into a hotel with a cardboard cutout of thatcher? He's going to gently caress it
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Dec 31, 2020 09:43
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another day volunteering at the conservative party conference. everyone keeps asking me if they can gently caress the Thatcher cutout. buddy, they wont even let me gently caress it
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Dec 31, 2020 09:54
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Jippa posted:
Meat eating is morally wrong anyway, everyone should go vegan.
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Dec 31, 2020 10:04
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keep punching joe posted:Meat eating is morally wrong anyway, everyone should go vegan. that's fine too you can have some of the US's famous poo poo-lettuce, i think we've had at least 2 or 3 e.coli outbreaks this year
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Dec 31, 2020 10:21
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It's weird how I get a kind of very specific coronavirus statistic at work, by way of how quickly we sell out of "sorry for your loss" cards.
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Dec 31, 2020 10:39
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Comrade Fakename posted:I haven’t heard much more than what’s been mentioned in this thread, but I have heard them from people who have direct first and second-hand knowledge of events and definitely aren’t right-wing plants. I largely agree with you here but this absolutely is an issue the left needs an answer to. Currently any bad faith actor can call any leftist an abuser/racist/homophobe/transphobe with no evidence and that will stick with them forever. That’s an absurdly powerful tool. We need to actually be looking into these claims and investigating them as a movement and saying conclusively whether they’re to be upheld or not. How we do that I have no loving idea but as long as we aren’t, the right and indeed bad faith actors within the left will have endless ammo.
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Dec 31, 2020 10:41
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I think the reason it keeps sticking in my head is because every time it comes up the answer is "he's been a bit weird about it" and so I just remember "he's a bit weird about it" and that pushes my preference towards the other options. It's not like he's uniquely left wing or politically brilliant.
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 10:44
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OwlFancier posted:I think the reason it keeps sticking in my head is because every time it comes up the answer is "he's been a bit weird about it" and so I just remember "he's a bit weird about it" and that pushes my preference towards the other options. It's not like he's uniquely left wing or politically brilliant. This is what I mean. Obviously can’t blame you for this because it’s a totally natural phenomenon but it gives the right a ludicrously powerful weapon against anyone they like. We absolutely need a way to combat it while also rooting out genuine arseholes.
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Dec 31, 2020 10:51
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I mean... I don't know that I'm being affected by a right wing plot if it makes me prefer sultana or burgon to the guy who seems a bit dudebro-ey for my taste?
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Dec 31, 2020 10:53
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If he was investigated by Labour and they found there was nothing wrong then isn't that enough?
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Dec 31, 2020 10:56
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Not in your case specifically maybe, but that sort of effect of something just sort of sticking because you heard it somewhere, and the left having no way to say ‘no gently caress off with that it’s bullshit’ (or indeed confirm it’s validity with some confidence), can be used and is used effectively as a weapon. Anti-semitism is the perfect example. Sure, maybe that wasn’t surmountable but the left has a natural aversion to calling out an accusation of bigotry or abuse as bullshit - now that is healthy and there should always be some aversion to that but when all evidence points to bullshit we need to be able to just call it that without concession.
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Dec 31, 2020 10:56
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Ms Adequate posted:she makes drat sure that said opinions stay very strictly private, and in public is mostly about opening wazzock factories
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Dec 31, 2020 10:57
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If you had a gun to my head and said it was clive lewis or the corpse of norman tebbit then sure, not that I particularly have any faith in labour's investigative rigor, but if I am picking anybody I want then I think there are better options? I also, to be honest, don't think that this is an issue that you can solve with "it's bullshit" because fundamentally I don't think that reflects the accurate reality of the world. A lot of people have suspect and wrong ideas, myself included, and it is entirely appropriate that people should become distrusting of people based on their past behaviour. This does not mean you have to vote for the maximum human misery party because the somewhat problematic party is the other option, but nor does it mean that the somewhat problematic party needs to become the "actually nobody did anything wrong ever" party because that need to secure a flawless public image is exactly the mechanism by which actual legit claims of abuse get covered up. The only way foward is to acknowledge that people can be flawed and you can both suggest better options and also understand that wrongness can operate on a spectrum. Saying we need to somehow conform this whole variety of social attitudes into a black and white good or bad media narrative is to entirely accept the right wing/media framing of the issue and directly prevents the kind of progress I would hope that people on the recieving end of lovely behaviour banding together to call it out, would actually achieve. The problem, I think, that tarnishing public figures images causes, is more centered in the apparent desire for people to imagine public figures as ideal people to begin with and not being able to emotionally process the revelation that they aren't. Rather than in the act of assessing the realities of their character. I don't think the correct response to that is to try desperately to reconstruct the ideal. Because that process is what covers up lovely behaviour and critically it also isn't something you can do, it will always ring hollow. The whole idea that we need pure perfect leaders to follow is, I think, an indictment of the entire concept of leadership in general, and an inherently right wing understanding of the world. Yes if you are going to conceive of yourself and your political activity as being defined by service to a leader then that leader does need to be perfect, because if they are imperfect it reflects on you as a person, but people aren't perfect and so the necessary course of action is to stop thinking of yourself and your ideas in that way. And you also need to stop structuing your political activity that way. The left has always had the difficulty that we are fractious and want our own things, and we have also always had the problem that if our ideas are centered in a leader than that leader becomes a target. If anything I think the fact that people can be outed as creeps only adds another layer of argument as to why we can't center our political activities under specific leaders or institutions. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 10:58
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keep punching joe posted:Meat eating is morally wrong anyway, everyone should go vegan. Nah you're alright.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:10
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no ethical consumption etc
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Dec 31, 2020 11:15
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OwlFancier posted:The problem, I think, that tarnishing public figures images causes, is more centered in the apparent desire for people to imagine public figures as ideal people to begin with and not being able to emotionally process the revelation that they aren't.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:19
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it is incredibly frustrating that the right can invent a vague story about a left figure being a bit sus and everyone leaps to believe it and abandons their comrade. Meanwhile you can have concrete evidence that a right wing politician is a serial sexual harasser, corrupt as gently caress and explicitly a racist piece of poo poo and they just shrug and go "who gives a poo poo".
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Dec 31, 2020 11:19
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Jakabite posted:This is what I mean. Obviously can’t blame you for this because it’s a totally natural phenomenon but it gives the right a ludicrously powerful weapon against anyone they like. We absolutely need a way to combat it while also rooting out genuine arseholes. You're completely right, but I honestly don't see how we can ever get beyond the point where only the left are ever held to account, or where accusations, in good faith or otherwise, ever get traction for anyone except left wing politicians. I mean, has anyone still got a copy of that junior staffers' spreadsheet from a couple of years ago? Iirc the right honorable Boris Johnson was literally accused of pressuring a woman into getting an abortion and it was never mentioned again
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Dec 31, 2020 11:23
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Eating meat is fine, but there needs to be a serious rethink in how it's farmed. That goes for dairy too. In the UK especially we have massive fields of crops just for feeding cattle which could be better utilised, e.g for growing veg that other animals and humans can consume. Also there are so many good meat alternatives now that I've found myself eating less and less meat this year. The only meat I've bought has been from a local farm.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:23
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Necrothatcher posted:a right wing politician is a serial sexual harasser, corrupt as gently caress and explicitly a racist piece of poo poo and they just shrug and go "who gives a poo poo". It's not really surprising, but more part of the definition, you see.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:25
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I think ultimately we are partway through a cultural shift where more people are realising how hosed up our society is in a lot of ways, but we haven't yet quite figured out how to respond to that. So you have some people trying desperately to deny that lovely people are lovely, some people who are trying to say "so what who cares" and some people trying to synthesise the two via "ok they might be lovely but we need to act as if they aren't because they need to function in the old paradigm of society and particularly its leaders being great and good" and some more people who are trying to genuinely find a way to somehow find some people to elevate out of the hosed up society as paragons to follow. But I don't really think any of those are going to work, long term, for everyone. I can't see what the end state is but I do think that what you're seeing is a lot of different and chaotic reactions to the same problem and what reaction people have is also a big component of their politics, wherein yes the right have the advantage at the moment because they are just going "lol who cares" because they're garbage people who like how hosed up society is and so does their support base. There are a lot of new approaches struggling to be born and they are all having to contend against the larger individual bloc of "actually the lovely one is good" because the status quo always has the advantage. But it's arguing about it, I think, that is necessary to finding an approach that can work for more people. That and actualy empowering people on as many levels as possible to make the old system untenable. Which is difficult because it's entrenched into the existing power structures, but all you can do is keep pushing. To that end I still think the iconoclasm of the metoo approach is a good one. And yes it will at some point be co-opted by the right, to an extent it already was when the democrats tried to bury it because of biden, but that is just another thing the struggle must adapt to. Because it is, fundamentally, a struggle against all power structures, not just ones that are politically convenient to one party. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 11:29
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CyberPingu posted:Eating meat is fine, but there needs to be a serious rethink in how it's farmed. That goes for dairy too. In the UK especially we have massive fields of crops just for feeding cattle which could be better utilised, e.g for growing veg that other animals and humans can consume.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:31
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Guavanaut posted:heathen duck drug cults. Solid tabloid headline and/or SA username this
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Dec 31, 2020 11:35
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The Moving Mountains burgers and hotdogs are really good. The hotdogs actually taste better than any real hotdog I've had* *This is probably due to the fact that most hotdogs have very little meat quantity in them anyway.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:39
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I like Burgon, but he comes across as a bit dim to many people, and he makes big statements like stuff about forming a Tiny Benn school without making it clear it's more of a Labour campaigner training environment than a traditional school. I know we can't base our selection off who is gonna get the easiest time from the tabloids because it's none of them, but he walks into rakes far too easily, so Sultana is the better pick IMO, plus then the Tories and Lib Dems could gently caress off about Labour not having a woman leader
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Dec 31, 2020 11:45
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Tiny Benn is the Mini-Me of Tony Benn.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:48
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Yeah I don’t know the answer to this. I want to see that paradigm shift you talk about Owly, where we can get to a point where we can accept that our leaders (if existent) aren’t perfect and everyone is flawed, but I also think this might take far too long to happen to a sufficient degree that smear tactics and such become ineffective and the left can actually take any power. If we weren’t about to see an enormous ecological collapse I’d be happy to wait but as it is I’m beginning to think the left needs to start worrying less about changing higher concept attitudes like how we think of leaders and power, and more about taking that power and averting the crisis to come. I’ve spent the last year and a half in very active anarchist circles and honestly the lack of urgency and focus on higher concepts is exhausting, and kind of feels like not seeing the trees for the woods. Like sure deconstruct hierarchy and the concept of leaders but can it wait until we’re not on a collision course with the end of civilisation? You could argue it’s an integral part of it as most people who think that way do but I just don’t think it is. Th vast majority of normal folk I’ve spoken to are happy to talk about the concrete changes that are needed and generally err left, which is good, but then the left starts talking high concept and honestly most people glaze over and you can tell they’re thinking ‘oh right this person is some political smart arse weirdo, they don’t actually want to kick out the tories and make my life better.’ Maybe the argument just isn’t being made well enough but I can’t see it being made well enough by a wide enough cross section of society, soon enough, to be effective. A lot of this sentiment comes from personal frustrations with liberation movements so can’t tell how clouded my judgement is but my feeling is that folks on our wavelength will still be hooting and hollering about how we think about leaders and hierarchy and other such abstracts (which yea I know have real world effects but are abstract nonetheless) while the right and centre talk ‘plain simple sensible English’ and get stuff done. E: what is this, a school for socialist ants?!
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Dec 31, 2020 11:49
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OwlFancier posted:I think ultimately we are partway through a cultural shift where more people are realising how hosed up our society is in a lot of ways, but we haven't yet quite figured out how to respond to that. Yeah, we're at that point where people know how screwed we are, but not at the point where we can easily do anything about it, as everyone who is not right wing is to fractured in their political beliefs. A lot of people I know think we're heading towards another communist/french style global revolution - but when, we don't know - things can't carry on like this, and the corona virus has shown the cracks (esp in the US), but until we get that random spark that sets it off, we won't see action, people are to afraid to lose what they have, so things will keep stacking up in the 1%'s favour until the dam breaks.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:52
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OwlFancier posted:Tiny Benn is the Mini-Me of Tony Benn. Tiny Benn convinced his dad to unionise against Scrooge.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:52
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I mean if you want I can just phase it as "Do you want the person in charge of the government to have the same attitude as your boss?" Like all this stuff is ultimately an extrapolation of stuff I either like or don't like. Like: people who aren't dickheads. Don't like: twats who think they're god's gift. Ergo anarchism. Part of the reason I err more towards burgon and sultana is I haven't seem them being like, really brash, because that's a trait I find offputting in people. I associate it with people who are inconsiderate and I find those people unpleasant to be around and that they often have bad effects on others around them. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Dec 31, 2020 |
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Dec 31, 2020 11:53
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I mean no I don’t. But I also don’t think anarchism is remotely possible in the next at least hundred years. I absolutely think and hope it will eventually be how things are run but we have a ticking time bomb to worry about here.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:55
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Call my high concept Tinie Benn cause it make normal people Pass Out.
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Dec 31, 2020 11:57
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