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Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

You shouldn't need to plant them all at once, either. I never did.

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Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Yeah, I think as long as you don't use the class-change items, the game won't give you dupes until you have every one you can use.

ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument

Either way ??? seed farming was really just exposed as a way to lengthen the game in the original. The remake had no need of it.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

Commander Keene posted:

Yeah, I think as long as you don't use the class-change items, the game won't give you dupes until you have every one you can use.

This shouldn't be the case, either. You can class change other characters while you're waiting for the full set and it should still give you one of each ultimately. Unless you meant actually using them as a consumable?

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Commander Keene posted:

Yeah, I think as long as you don't use the class-change items, the game won't give you dupes until you have every one you can use.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. Unless it got patched since I played.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



I was talking about class changing using them, though presumably using them as combat items is also a bad idea. From what I understand the game checks your inventory for what you have when deciding what the seed gives you.

I waited until I had the ones I wanted before doing any of the class changes and never got any dupes, but IIRC in Natural20's LP of the game he got a dupe after class changing some but not all of his characters.

ChrisBTY posted:

Either way ??? seed farming was really just exposed as a way to lengthen the game in the original. The remake had no need of it.
Agreed, it's basically the last vestige of the original's '90's game design left in the remake. Should've gone the way of the dinosaur along with the screen-freezing spells, IMO.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

Wouldn't happen to be different based on what version of the game people are playing, would it? I never touched it on the Switch for instance.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

Well, gently caress me. I had a playthrough on PC I started that was almost done with the Benevedons so I thought I would just get the rest of the treasure ??? seeds just to check again. Something dropped a ??? in the shining ruins so that it disrupted the chest seeds, and while the first 6 did give me one of each, the first six included the dropped one, and the 7th one from the last chest was an old class change item. So I guess it's not the chests necessarily. Only took 4 from scratch playthroughs for it to do it like that for me. So probably just accurate to say the randomizer tries to get you one of each for the first six but also just sucks at it occasionally?

anakha
Sep 16, 2009


10 hours into Valkyria Chronicles 4, and I just have one question.



No military court is going to find me guilty of shooting Raz, right?

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

comic assgrabs are protected under Anime Law

Sab Sabbington
Sep 18, 2016

In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona
Any chance someone can recommend me a relatively modern (or something I can emulate) turn-based JRPG that's also hard as hell, preferably where the solution to that isn't just Do More Battles Get Numbers Bigger?

I'm still deciding on what I plan to play after I finish up Atelier Ryza, but it fired up some old jrpg drive that'd been turned off for like a decade and it rules.

baram.
Oct 23, 2007

smooth.


dragon quest 11 with stronger monsters and no exp from lower level stuff turned on

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Sab Sabbington posted:

Any chance someone can recommend me a relatively modern (or something I can emulate) turn-based JRPG that's also hard as hell, preferably where the solution to that isn't just Do More Battles Get Numbers Bigger?

I'm still deciding on what I plan to play after I finish up Atelier Ryza, but it fired up some old jrpg drive that'd been turned off for like a decade and it rules.

So like, how do you want the hardness delivered. Is it that you need to know typing, is it just that you're extremelt weak versus foes so you need every advantage, or something like random chance can ruin you and you're gambling time spent in dungeon versus your luck?

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Sab Sabbington posted:

Any chance someone can recommend me a relatively modern (or something I can emulate) turn-based JRPG that's also hard as hell, preferably where the solution to that isn't just Do More Battles Get Numbers Bigger?

I'm still deciding on what I plan to play after I finish up Atelier Ryza, but it fired up some old jrpg drive that'd been turned off for like a decade and it rules.

Can never go wrong with Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse. One of the best JRPG battle systems ever and also crazy hard on Apocalypse difficulty.

But maybe you've played that. Sorry, I don't post in here much. It really is the most recent hard turn-based game I've played. No wait, Strange Journey Redux is technically even more modern than IVA....kinda?

Have you ever considered gameplay mods and hacks? They get a bad rap from some on here but many like FFVII New Threat are fantastic.


Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"
The more I play Chapter 2 of Trails of Cold Steel 3, the more I really wish we'd get an official release of the Crossbell games. At the very least they've made a really good reason as to why Lloyd and the SSS aren't getting to play the hero here. And the great wandering bard Olivier makes his return :allears:.

Sab Sabbington
Sep 18, 2016

In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona

Barudak posted:

So like, how do you want the hardness delivered. Is it that you need to know typing, is it just that you're extremelt weak versus foes so you need every advantage, or something like random chance can ruin you and you're gambling time spent in dungeon versus your luck?

Definitely more in line with the first two rather than random chance, things like specific strategies and expending temporary resources or items to deal with situations.

Dragon Quest 11 is on gamepass so that's a low effort try on my end, I'll toss that on the list. I haven't played a DQ game since fuckin' DQ Monsters for, like, the GBA?

NikkolasKing posted:

Can never go wrong with Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse. One of the best JRPG battle systems ever and also crazy hard on Apocalypse difficulty.

Have you ever considered gameplay mods and hacks? They get a bad rap from some on here but many like FFVII New Threat are fantastic.

SMT is another series I've meant to revisit modernly so I'll toss that on the list too. I hadn't considered any hacks, but I'm open to it. Any other you'd recommend beyond one for FF7?

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"
Actually, quick Cold Steel 3 question; Anyone know where you can buy Raspberry Pecky?

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Actually, quick Cold Steel 3 question; Anyone know where you can buy Raspberry Pecky?

Sterry Farm Luxury Foods at Albion Garden Department Store in Saint-Arkh Cathedral District on Chapter 1's field study words words

if you've passed that, the school store also sells raspberry when it eventually opens

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus

Sab Sabbington posted:

Any chance someone can recommend me a relatively modern (or something I can emulate) turn-based JRPG that's also hard as hell, preferably where the solution to that isn't just Do More Battles Get Numbers Bigger?

I'm still deciding on what I plan to play after I finish up Atelier Ryza, but it fired up some old jrpg drive that'd been turned off for like a decade and it rules.

SaGa Scarlet Grace can get pretty hard for a modern jrpg, and it’s 90% combat with a great combat system.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Sab Sabbington posted:

Definitely more in line with the first two rather than random chance, things like specific strategies and expending temporary resources or items to deal with situations.

Dragon Quest 11 is on gamepass so that's a low effort try on my end, I'll toss that on the list. I haven't played a DQ game since fuckin' DQ Monsters for, like, the GBA?


SMT is another series I've meant to revisit modernly so I'll toss that on the list too. I hadn't considered any hacks, but I'm open to it. Any other you'd recommend beyond one for FF7?

So I've been meaning to only bring this up after i beat it but gently caress it, why not.

The gold standard for FF hacks are:
FFVI Brave New World (SNES)
FFVII: New Threat (PC)
FFIX: Alternate Fantasy

I've played all of these and can vouch for their great quality in terms of innovation and challenge without venturing into "oh god why" territory. Although I did find Necron pretty much impossible without Eiko and her Dispel ....

But the mod I've been playing lately is for FFVIII and it's called Crystal. Basically, it's a Class Mod for FFVIIi whee every character gets a GF which leans abilities with levels (or select items) and those are meant to be that character's and nobody else's. Zell has Ifrit and is a Monk so he punches poo poo, learns abilities like Mad Rush (Berserk/Haste/Reflect), Quistis is a Blue Mage so she has Shiva who learns eh Aura ability (not a spell in this) and so-on. You can technically give a GF to whoever and have White Mage Rinoa use Black Magic but their stats are designed for certain roles and also it just kinda misses the point.

I'm at the end of Disk 3 and have found it far and away the most creative and ambitious FFVIII hack of all time. More importantly, it is fair. Early fights in other FFVIII hacks can kill you but as the creator of Crystal noted, fight difficulty should respond to player options. As you get more options, the game gets harder. Never impossibly hard or unfair but still more interesting and requiring more thought than the original by far. Like, since Rinoa is the White Mage, who do you send to the Missile Base and who goes with you back to Balamb Garden? That is basically a snapshot of the kind of thinking that goes into this mod. Right now I have to swap out Quistis for Selphie (Black Mage) because Bahamut is kicking my rear end and I need her unique talents. (she is the only person who learns Double which is an ability and not a spell this time around and Bahamut has shifting elemental weaknesses)

Finally there is SMT Nocturne HardType.
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3299/

But if you've never played SMT at all, maybe hold off on that one. It's hard to recommend Nocturne for me because it's so primitive. IV Apocalypse obliterates it in terms of gameplay, as does SJR. But at the same time, maybe it's ideal to start with the weaker game....?

Do you have a 3DS or will you emulate with Citra on PC?


But yeah, I've played many mods but thee are the ones I would recommend as quality. They do a lot of intriguing things with the gameplay and make a game very different from the original in a good way.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jan 3, 2021

Looper
Mar 1, 2012

Sab Sabbington posted:

Any chance someone can recommend me a relatively modern (or something I can emulate) turn-based JRPG that's also hard as hell, preferably where the solution to that isn't just Do More Battles Get Numbers Bigger?

I'm still deciding on what I plan to play after I finish up Atelier Ryza, but it fired up some old jrpg drive that'd been turned off for like a decade and it rules.

idk how you feel about icky non-anime games but divinity original sin 2 might be worth a look. it doesn't have repeatable encounters

anakha
Sep 16, 2009







What's Roche from FF7R doing in my WW2 anime?

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

anakha posted:






What's Roche from FF7R doing in my WW2 anime?

Uh are your GPU drivers okay? That's some funky texture corruption in pic 1/2

e: oh it's remote play, is your PS4 okay

anakha
Sep 16, 2009


kirbysuperstar posted:

Uh are your GPU drivers okay? That's some funky texture corruption in pic 1/2

e: oh it's remote play, is your PS4 okay

Just some Wi-Fi issues screwing up the graphics in those shots.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

anakha posted:

What's Roche from FF7R doing in my WW2 anime?

pulling out, amongst other things

Srice
Sep 11, 2011

Sab Sabbington posted:

Any chance someone can recommend me a relatively modern (or something I can emulate) turn-based JRPG that's also hard as hell, preferably where the solution to that isn't just Do More Battles Get Numbers Bigger?

I'm still deciding on what I plan to play after I finish up Atelier Ryza, but it fired up some old jrpg drive that'd been turned off for like a decade and it rules.

SaGa Scarlet Grace is the kind of jrpg where you gotta think about your choices in every battle, and since there's level scaling it means you can't mindlessly grind your way out of a problem.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"
Cold Steel's never been subtle about Rean and Alisa being the defacto pairing, but goddamn CS3 is as subtle as a brick about Alisa really wanting into Rean's pants.

I was also pretty cold on Musse as a character at first, but I really appreciate a character who can just prod things off-course with the right words in the right place without getting too chess-master-y about it. She clearly knows a bit more, but not everything, and half of what she seems to be doing is just to see what'll happen so she can find out from a safe distance. The script's also largely better than I was worried it'd turn out under NISA, especially when it has to incorporate about three different shades of subtext onto every single line spoken between Olivier and her.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
It took me a while to come around to it but after CS4 I agreed with some sentiments that Emma should have been the main romantic lead, she has the most obvious throughline with the overall plot and it makes sense why she and Rean would be in constant company and would bond together. Whereas Alisa it feels like they ran out of stuff for her to actually do in CS3/CS4, apart from a few obvious moments that honestly didn't get played up as much as I expected.

Not my problem though I picked Sara!!

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Emma has the most to do? Does she get something in four? She’s the most there character for the first three.

The cat feels more impactful than she ever does

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
The witch village is probably the most important location in CS4, and in general her clan is given probably the most direct relevance for the larger plot between Roselia, Vita, and the backstory for Erebonia, with Emma's relationship with all of them a big aspect of her character.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

Emma also gets the biggest glow-up

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

CharlestheHammer posted:

Emma has the most to do? Does she get something in four? She’s the most there character for the first three.

The cat feels more impactful than she ever does
You see how if she were to be the romantic interest she would suddenly have a lot to do and it would totally make sense though, right

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
She would dump exposition while blushing I assume

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Nate RFB posted:

It took me a while to come around to it but after CS4 I agreed with some sentiments that Emma should have been the main romantic lead, she has the most obvious throughline with the overall plot and it makes sense why she and Rean would be in constant company and would bond together. Whereas Alisa it feels like they ran out of stuff for her to actually do in CS3/CS4, apart from a few obvious moments that honestly didn't get played up as much as I expected.

Not my problem though I picked Sara!!

Yeah, it's pretty obvious Emma's got the most to do throughout the quadrilogy just because of her being tied into Vita Clotilde due to them both being Hexen Clan, Alisa probably got top-billing by trying to make her the "normal/average" option.

It's a moot point anyway, because Laura's the best choice. Someone so much as grazes Rean in a fight and she gets pissed :colbert:.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011

Alisa is obviously the correct choice because Rean sees that with the decline of the aristocracy the only way to continue to live his privileged lifestyle is to marry into the rising capitalist class which will also give the Reinfords an appearance of legitimacy with the remaining old money.

Ethiser fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jan 3, 2021

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

CharlestheHammer posted:

She would dump exposition while blushing I assume
i don't know why i'm even arguing this when you clearly don't feel like giving this hypothetical the time of day, but

the whole point is that she could have way more character and scenes in which to display that character if the romantic focus of the story were on her

and that she would benefit from that more than any other girl, who already generally have things to do in the story and moments where their character is explored

CubeTheory
Mar 26, 2010

Cube Reversal
This is the saddest series of posts I have ever read. Alisa, Laura, Emma? It's very obvious that that the correct romantic option is Crow, it's like none of you played the game.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
This is reminding me that I gave Emma contacts in CS3 when she was temp available, then later on the rooftop she appeared with glasses again because Controllable Emma and Not-Controllable Emma are different.

Except for like one cutscene within the barrage of cutscenes, she had contacts again despite not being actual playable during that, which was super weird.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
Omori does something that Jimmy & the Pulsating Mass did that i enjoy very often

namely when you go off the beaten path or into a hidden alcove or something and the game goes "You have now entered The Spooky Zone™. There are no exits from The Spooky Zone™. Enjoy your stay"

doesn't happen often, love it when it does

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Amppelix posted:

i don't know why i'm even arguing this when you clearly don't feel like giving this hypothetical the time of day, but

the whole point is that she could have way more character and scenes in which to display that character if the romantic focus of the story were on her

and that she would benefit from that more than any other girl, who already generally have things to do in the story and moments where their character is explored

Well I mean you interact because your desperate for the validation condcecending brings you, but it doesn’t work because it’s stupid. If they wanted Emma to do things they don’t need to make her a love interest, she is relevant to a part of the plot...she doesn’t need to be a love interest. They could just integrate her better into the plot she’s already in.

Instead she spends most of the game giving some very introductory exposition while the loving Cat spends more time being plot relevant and actually forms a more real bond with Rean

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