EVE 2021: Much Abloo About Dr. Who

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > EVE 2021: Much Abloo About Dr. Who

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

i'm gonna repost this here because even though reddit seems pathologically incapable of learning from their mistakes at least we can learn from theirs

quote:

There isn't a population cap, there is a *simultaneous command* cap. These are computers, they process commands in order. In this case the commands come from a widely distributed population of users who are telling their internet spaceships where to go and what to do. Most people think of computers from getting commands from programs that are running, but it is the same regardless of where they come from. I don't know why I have to say this but: that is how computers work.

When you jumped thousands of people *into the other fleet* you set up a situation where there were going to be far too many commands for the servers to handle. We already know that the eve server isn't going to prioritize your jump-in command over the locking command of a supercapital on a newly landed titan, it is going to try to handle them both the same. Maybe this is a mistake, maybe "jump-in" requests should somehow be privileged over attack commands, but that is very clearly how the game works right now and it was clear before. At some point the servers just can't do commands fast enough. Jumping to a structure and tethering is nearly no commands and works fine, but jumping into the enemy fleet is an overwhelming number of commands. At some point the server is going to have to stop answering them because of either a physical memory buffer that runs out of space, which likely isn't an issue, or because the game has to keep going and time is still passing and it can't keep up.

Tidi is a solution to the challenges of handling simultaneous commands. It gives the computer ten times the amount of time to process these commands without interrupting the flow of events. It is an elegant solution and it might be necessary to go even slower than the 10% minimum that exists now, however until then this is the obvious game mechanic.

Jumping a record breaking number of people directly into another different record breaking number of people was just so clearly going to do this. There is not a hard cap on number of people, that is not what happened, there is a hard cap on number of simultaneous commands. You guys set up a situation where there was just a loving ton of simultaneous commands and you absolutely needed them all for your fleet to successfully jump into system. If those commands didn't go through there would be a massacre. If you need your commands to work you shouldn't also be creating hundreds of thousands of additional commands.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:03

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# ? May 20, 2024 01:21

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

also this got a laugh out of me

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:11

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

For some reason that just makes me think of the Duke brothers bleating to "TURN THOSE MACHINES BACK ON" at the end of Trading Places.

Either they were outrageously stupid and/or deliberately trying to crash the node to force all of us to reload and cede our advantage for getting there first and loading it. If anything, this is demonstrative proof that CCP is getting *slightly* better at node management, and the more PAPI complains about how their attempt to exploit CCP's past limitations to their advantage failed but should've succeeded, the worse they look and the less incentive CCP has to pay the slightest bit of attention to them.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jan 3, 2021

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:13

Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

THIRTEEN TRILLION

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:15

vulvamancer: Oct 2, 2006; Yes! It all makes sense! We may be freaks, but we're freaks with teeth, and claws, and magic wands! And together, we can stand up to Farquaad!

Floppychop posted:

Looks like Vily gets to go down in EVE history after all.

Not gonna get the wikipedia article that he wanted though.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:16

Solus: May 31, 2011; Drongos.

This is the most awful skin i've ever seen i loving love it

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:16

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

Solus posted:

This is the most awful skin i've ever seen i loving love it

if you turn on the effects it has little auroras around it :3:

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:17

AlphariusOmegon: May 11, 2020

Big's TAPI Supercap Fleet Memorial Keepstar and Disco Palace.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:22

Solus: May 31, 2011; Drongos.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:23

Malefitz: Jun 19, 2018

Now we get to see Mittens' final smug form

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:24

AlphariusOmegon: May 11, 2020

Malefitz posted:

Now we get to see Mittens' final smug form

Side effects of The Wizard Hat include:

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:25

Dalael: Oct 14, 2014; Hello. Yep, I still think Atlantis is Bolivia, yep, I'm still a giant idiot, yep, I'm still a huge racist. Some things never change!

ullerrm posted:

I won Eve a few years ago, and haven't gotten the craving to come back yet. I occasionally check in on the thread to see how things are going, and that's about it.

Now would be the time. Unlike this thread and my posting, EVE has become somewhat better.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:25

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

FAT32 SHAMER posted:

Come play with me and stereotype

Yosposters unite

Stereotype posted:

come play with us! me and fat32 can give you lots of things (mostly him probably lol)

I do appreciate the invite, but I've never been one for MMOs. Thanks though!

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:27

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

quote:

Im not gonna argue this, you're right about it being a dumb strategy but we needed to get in there before we could log in our titans on the field. It kinda HAD to be done but, putting out all those fighters hours before the fight did exactly what their poo poo exploiting leadership thought it would do. So instead of being in the greatest fight in Eve history, goons decided to be goons and exploit a win...classy.

quote:

BS, Goons had so many fighters out you couldnt see any ship brackets in the mess, they knew this would ruin the battle and it was the only chance they had. lovely way to play from a lovely alliance...

quote:

Except it is still a game mechanics/CCP problem. Yes, this probably wouldn't have ended any other way, but there's really not an alternative. The defenders know when the hull timer is, and if they flood the system enough, jumping to tether then trying to warp in supers to an already hosed grid would have had most of the same problems, with some additional ones to boot.

This fight just shows there isn't a good solution, and that's gamebreaking because the defenders can literally make a fight unwinnable just by logging in enough people to break the server.

Also, you aren't quite right about the game not caring about number of people. We've seen in the past that after around 6500ish people the server seems to just stop letting people in, even if things are working okish otherwise. There's likely some kind of soft cap in place.

quote:

Hey, i never said the decision wasnt stupid, yet it wasnt mine. But you know, since its reddit and most of you fucks want to spin and no one cares that state of the game is poo poo and we cant play it properly, plus you cunts itch to downvote even when things said are true, all i can say is gently caress you! You will lose this war as you were losing it the whole loving time, regardless what happened today due to stupidity of 2 individuals. Enjoy while you can, shitheads

help i'm being covered in salt

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:28

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I do appreciate the invite, but I've never been one for MMOs. Thanks though!

ha no worries

i normally don't play MMOs (I have like 2000 hours logged on factorio) but for some reason eve scratches some itches i didn't know i had

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:29

The Claptain: May 11, 2014; Grimey Drawer

Stereotype posted:

help i'm being covered in salt

Here, have a Grath Telkin quote:

Grath Telkin posted:

look at the dead bodies all over the screen - that's because you're dumb

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:35

Photex: Apr 6, 2009

this whole thing has been thoroughly entertaining, congrats on still being able to extract salt from this game after all these years on the regular.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:36

Torpor: Oct 20, 2008; .. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

I like the history behind the station in m2. Just some tiny Corp mines their hearts out and built a station in a quiet part of space until...

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:38

notaspy: Mar 22, 2009

What would have been the correct way to withdraw the original fleet? The one they left logged off.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:40

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Torpor posted:

I like the history behind the station in m2. Just some tiny Corp mines their hearts out and built a station in a quiet part of space until...

I used to carrier rat there, but it was quite busy most of the time so I tended to miss hostile randoms coming through so I set up home next door in KEE-N6

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:40

SHISHKABOB: Nov 30, 2012; Fun Shoe

notaspy posted:

What would have been the correct way to withdraw the original fleet? The one they left logged off.

Probably wait a week or something. Do it at a weird time.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:43

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

notaspy posted:

What would have been the correct way to withdraw the original fleet? The one they left logged off.

There is no correct way. They never should have put it there. They have a variety of bad options but getting a huge supercap fleet stuck next to an enemy citadel is not really recoverable.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:44

Zazz Razzamatazz: Apr 19, 2016; by sebmojo

I can't remember if anyone posted this in here yet:

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:45

Solus: May 31, 2011; Drongos.

i made a new emote for the alliance

:smugbong:

Solus fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jan 3, 2021

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:47

Collateral Damage: Jun 13, 2009

Stereotype posted:

help i'm being covered in salt

That's loving rich coming from people who admitted to using tactics to cause lag just a few months ago, and got outed this time attempting to crash the server.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:48

Xolve: Oct 12, 2012; Well, shoot! We ain't come this far just to dump this thing in the drink. What's the nearest target opportunity?

Collateral Damage posted:

That's loving rich coming from people who admitted to using tactics to cause lag just a few months ago, and got outed this time attempting to crash the server.

It's always been 'okay when we do it, NOT okay when they do it', unfortunately.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:50

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

Collateral Damage posted:

That's loving rich coming from people who admitted to using tactics to cause lag just a few months ago, and got outed this time attempting to crash the server.

They were also mass dropping cans on their fortizar during the first battle in M2-. Any time they accuse goons of using exploits they are just projecting what they themselves are perfectly willing and happy to do

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:50

notaspy: Mar 22, 2009

Stereotype posted:

There is no correct way. They never should have put it there. They have a variety of bad options but getting a huge supercap fleet stuck next to an enemy citadel is not really recoverable.

SHISHKABOB posted:

Probably wait a week or something. Do it at a weird time.

Thanks for the replies, but I didn't ask the question I meant to.

What I mean is - Should they have have disengaged the first time round and jumped out, so that they could come back the next day to finish the job? I am assuming they would have lost a few Titans but that is better than losing 400.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:50

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

SHISHKABOB posted:

Probably wait a week or something. Do it at a weird time.

Like not at the same time as 2000 goons are logging in for an hour of smug mode!

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:50

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

notaspy posted:

Thanks for the replies, but I didn't ask the question I meant to.

What I mean is - Should they have have disengaged the first time round and jumped out, so that they could come back the next day to finish the job? I am assuming they would have lost a few Titans but that is better than losing 400.

Yeah, the smart play on their part was to turn around and go home when the jammer failed to online. The reason we have been waiting around for months is because the smart play is to online jammers and shoot keepstars in peace. They didn't turn around though, they were too arrogant and retreat was too demoralizing, and they put themselves in a position where they would take massive losses. At that point they had no good options.

Yesterday they should have jumped to their fortizar hours before they needed to get there so that the server could properly and reliably handle their system entries without having to simultaneously handling a record-breaking capital fight.

I've been playing this game for six months and i understand the tactics better than the leadership of the biggest coalition of pubbies in the game.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:54

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

notaspy posted:

Thanks for the replies, but I didn't ask the question I meant to.

What I mean is - Should they have have disengaged the first time round and jumped out, so that they could come back the next day to finish the job? I am assuming they would have lost a few Titans but that is better than losing 400.

If they'd disengaged, they would have lost that armor timer. That would have probably been fine, strategically - they have dozens of keepstars to chew through, so punting one timer doesn't really affect the big picture at all - but it would have been a bit embarrassing. Alternatively, they could have stuck to the commitment but logged in after downtime and continued to fight until they were able to extract safely or bled both sides down to nothing. (Remember, they were trading evenly on titans and winning pretty much everything else.) They did neither.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:55

Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Delve? More like Bee-ietnam

# ? Jan 3, 2021 22:58

ShaneMacGowansTeeth: May 22, 2007; I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

"My boss is a fish enthusiast"

# ? Jan 3, 2021 23:03

Stereotype: Apr 24, 2010; College Slice

# ? Jan 3, 2021 23:06

Bob Socko: Feb 20, 2001

Whoops, wrong thread!

# ? Jan 3, 2021 23:07

Solus: May 31, 2011; Drongos.

# ? Jan 3, 2021 23:10

Salisbury Snape: May 26, 2014; While a grain platform can be used for corn, a specialized corn head is ordinarily used instead.

ullerrm posted:

I won Eve a few years ago, and haven't gotten the craving to come back yet. I occasionally check in on the thread to see how things are going, and that's about it.

Stupid sexy flanders

# ? Jan 3, 2021 23:14