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numeracy This poll is closed. |
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| s*x n*mb*r |
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69 | 0.22% |
| w@@d n_mb_r |
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420 | 1.34% |
| Jeb! number |
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538 | 1.72% |
| Biden numbr |
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30330 | 96.72% |
| Total: | 31357 votes | ||
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:It's not against BLM but the fact is that even organizing huge crowds on a massive scale got us exactly jack and poo poo. trump taught those in power that if you just ignore things for long enough the media will get bored and move on to whatever new shiny thing is happening
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Jan 4, 2021 15:55
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Organ Fiend posted:Lmfao, he'll be dead or resign read: forced out within his first year. Harris was always the one, and isn't at the top of the ticket because Tulsi knifed her. I agree this is the plan but I think Biden is going to refuse to die or step down since he's a stubborn rear end in a top hat and is now the most powerful person on earth regardless of what the Obama or Clinton factions want. Sir Tonk posted:trump taught those in power that if you just ignore things for long enough the media will get bored and move on to whatever new shiny thing is happening Remember when the entire line of succession for the Virginia governor was revealed to either have done some black face in the past or have a #metoo scandal to the point where even Pelosi said Northram should step down and then he just didn't and it all went away? Eggplant Squire has issued a correction as of 15:57 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 15:55
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Smythe posted:you guys wanna see a cool website? check this out: here best pies in nyc, love that joint
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Jan 4, 2021 15:55
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:Wait, I think I missed something, what did the BLM protests end up getting us that the FTV one didnt Mariame Kaba got a front page NYT ed-op titled: "yes, we literally mean abolish the police." "defund the police" as a point of debate that the establishment actually has to beat back. a massive shift in basic layman's understanding of police violence and funding. for some people, contradictions heightened which show that democrats aren't the good guys, etc. just in philly connections were built and many radical organizations had membership + participation increase, etc. and when the movement faded out they weren't funneled into a private slack with personal patreon attached, lmao eventually the heat of the moment was beat back but i don't think we can hold progress moving in fits and starts against decentralized organizations
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Jan 4, 2021 15:56
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:It's not against BLM but the fact is that even organizing huge crowds on a massive scale got us exactly jack and poo poo. and therefore we should support FTV, which doesn't seem very organized? i don't understand what you're going for
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Jan 4, 2021 15:57
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mila kunis posted:and therefore we should support FTV, which doesn't seem very organized? i don't understand what you're going for I'm saying it has the same chance of success (none) regardless of its level of organization (also none)
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Jan 4, 2021 16:00
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Sir Tonk posted:trump taught those in power that if you just ignore things for long enough the media will get bored and move on to whatever new shiny thing is happening unfortunately for them the media isn't actually reality
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Jan 4, 2021 16:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:organizing is definitely the thing jagoff youtubers are NOT doing, but what real-rear end leftists MUST do if they are to win M4A within four to eight years (under President Gavin Newsom) Four to TWENTY. I WILL KEEP SCREAMING ABOUT THIS poo poo
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Jan 4, 2021 16:00
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:It's not against BLM but the fact is that even organizing huge crowds on a massive scale got us exactly jack and poo poo. I think it has less to due with the amount of people and more the actions most of those people took. Marching and chanting and good but it needs to be backed up by something that scares those in power to change and fix things. We saw an inkling of that when that pig pin got burned down.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:01
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Monowhatever posted:I think it has less to due with the amount of people and more the actions most of those people took. Marching and chanting and good but it needs to be backed up by something that scares those in power to change and fix things. We saw an inkling of that when that pig pin got burned down. This i can get behind
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Jan 4, 2021 16:01
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Monowhatever posted:I think it has less to due with the amount of people and more the actions most of those people took. Marching and chanting and good but it needs to be backed up by something that scares those in power to change and fix things. We saw an inkling of that when that pig pin got burned down. what do you think it takes to get people to do more confrontational actions over a longer period of time?
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Jan 4, 2021 16:03
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Jinnigan posted:Mariame Kaba got a front page NYT ed-op titled: "yes, we literally mean abolish the police." "defund the police" as a point of debate that the establishment actually has to beat back. a massive shift in basic layman's understanding of police violence and funding. for some people, contradictions heightened which show that democrats aren't the good guys, etc. just in philly connections were built and many radical organizations had membership + participation increase, etc. and when the movement faded out they weren't funneled into a private slack with personal patreon attached, lmao so in the end you got exactly as much as dore did lmao
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Jan 4, 2021 16:05
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i too aspire to someday be allowed to have an op-ed in the new york times
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Jan 4, 2021 16:05
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Jinnigan posted:what do you think it takes to get people to do more confrontational actions over a longer period of time? America just has to keep treating Americans like Americans.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:07
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seems to me that jimmy must a lot better at this poo poo if he can get the same results with just one millionth of the people involved
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Jan 4, 2021 16:07
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Jinnigan posted:what do you think it takes to get people to do more confrontational actions over a longer period of time? people have had a whole lot of conditioning over a very long period of time and have internalized the message from the elites that threatening order and property enough to gain concessions is a bad thing. getting your skull crushed while standing in a "free speech zone" is cool and good and nonviolence. the single most important factor to rejecting police violence, I think, is the immiserization and a decisive negative change in material conditions. people's lives need to get worse, much worse
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Jan 4, 2021 16:11
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For one thing, if we end up doing more protests we have to nip that fuckin "kneeling with cops" and "ending with voter registration" poo poo in the bud. That garbage defanged the movement immediately and I was genuinely disgusted when it happened invariably and me and a few others would just have to shamble alone back to our homes.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:12
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bedpan posted:people have had a whole lot of conditioning over a very long period of time and have internalized the message from the elites that threatening order and property enough to gain concessions is a bad thing. getting your skull crushed while standing in a "free speech zone" is cool and good and nonviolence. lots of countries have much, much worse material conditions than americans, and they also do not revolt, or they simply vote in fascists. what would make americans different than that?
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Jan 4, 2021 16:14
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Anymore politicansbhaving their 3rd homes shat on?
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Jan 4, 2021 16:14
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:For one thing, if we end up doing more protests we have to nip that fuckin "kneeling with cops" and "ending with voter registration" poo poo in the bud. That garbage defanged the movement immediately and I was genuinely disgusted when it happened invariably and me and a few others would just have to shamble alone back to our homes. that's an extremely good criticism. how do you propose to stop that from happening. perhaps another good question is: why did it happen in the first place
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Jan 4, 2021 16:15
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:It's not against BLM but the fact is that even organizing huge crowds on a massive scale got us exactly jack and poo poo. With the civil rights movement, people remember the protests and arrests, but not the boycotts. I've wondered how things would have gone down if the community approached the local Walmart and malls and threatened to boycott unless they agree to delay paying business/sales taxes. Coerce them into applying pressure on the local government for something actionable, like banning chokeholds or adopting non-lethal policing measures.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:15
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Cerebral Bore posted:so in the end you got exactly as much as dore did lmao for a thread dedicated to making fun of liberals you sure are infected with liberal notions of Great Individual Acts of History instead of keeping track of underlying conditions, contradictions, or hegemony
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Jan 4, 2021 16:16
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Eggplant Squire posted:I agree this is the plan but I think Biden is going to refuse to die or step down since he's a stubborn rear end in a top hat and is now the most powerful person on earth regardless of what the Obama or Clinton factions want. They forced him to take Harris as VP, and that was before his brain had completely melted. There's no way he wanted jet after she called him racist in the first debate. His brain is far more melted now. The last several months have been all about keeping him as well hidden as possible. They'll have no trouble getting him out.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:16
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Jinnigan posted:lots of countries have much, much worse material conditions than americans, and they also do not revolt, or they simply vote in fascists. what would make americans different than that? this is exactly my point. material conditions will need to get much worse to propel a great crowd into open revolt or some other decisive rejection of the system. as bad as things are or seem to be, they are not bad enough.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:17
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Jinnigan posted:that's an extremely good criticism. how do you propose to stop that from happening. Big movements are easier to manipulate by public figures who put on a well-meaning face but ultimately don't want change. If I knew how to become a public figure I'd be grifting too, not doomposting
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Jan 4, 2021 16:18
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people did burn down a police station which was pretty cool
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Jan 4, 2021 16:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:why am I posting about this Kai Kahele rear end in a top hat? well... i've never looked at this guy's twitter before but it rules https://twitter.com/kaikahele/status/1333858467585658880 https://twitter.com/kaikahele/status/1328440172866920450 https://twitter.com/kaikahele/status/1329286456830029827
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Jan 4, 2021 16:19
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bedpan posted:this is exactly my point. material conditions will need to get much worse to propel a great crowd into open revolt or some other decisive rejection of the system. as bad as things are or seem to be, they are not bad enough. do you think there are any lessons to be learned from poor countries that did manage to win left victories. like uhh kerala maybe, or venezuela
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Jan 4, 2021 16:21
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Jinnigan posted:what decentralized movement are we talking about here. are we talking about the massive BLM protests that happened this year? those were awesome, they involved some ~30,000,000 people across the country, including people sticking out their necks in very tiny very violently racist small towns. or are we talking about jimmy dore's plan to force the vote. offline participants: perhaps as many as 30? that's three tens, and that's terrible The BLM protests were as close to the gold standard as we've seen in this country for 60 years, but there were certainly establishment figures trying to pour cold water on it. It was difficult because racial justice is one of the things liberals pride themselves on. I think FTV had more potential than you give it credit for. Action on healthcare now is not a hard sell, but it's been very clear there are leaders and media figures who will not involve themselves in something that implicates their faves. DSA leaders absolutely sought to pour cold water on it, and their claims of seeking a democratic mandate are just an excuse when you dive into the way they sought it.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:24
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Organ Fiend posted:They forced him to take Harris as VP, and that was before his brain had completely melted. There's no way he wanted jet after she called him racist in the first debate. Yeah but then he actually had to sorta play politics and promise stuff since he needed the entire party to move heaven and earth to get his body across two finish lines. Now he's basically beholden to no one. Maybe I'm wrong on this one but if I am I'm just out a lunch bill.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:26
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Jinnigan posted:do you think there are any lessons to be learned from poor countries that did manage to win left victories. like uhh kerala maybe, or venezuela Using Venezuela as a gotcha is something neoconservatives and neoliberals love when they reach the point of ignorance and just want to smear poo poo. Good job Edit. I'm a big stupid who didn't read the whole conversation, carry on Cromulent_Chill has issued a correction as of 16:35 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 16:26
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Jinnigan posted:do you think there are any lessons to be learned from poor countries that did manage to win left victories. like uhh kerala maybe, or venezuela maybe bolivia too and other nations that have shaken off the grasp of a direct colonial overlord. although in this latter case, the colonial powers have found other ways to reassert themselves. I don't know enough about the history of those nations to distill their experiences into things that will be applicable to the united states but it seems like the foremost lesson to learn is that the elites must be made to fear the arms of those below them. humans can survive and reproduce in even the most desperate conditions. people have an astonishing capacity to endure pain, misery, injustice, and loss. for someone to reject the society that is around them and to disdain the powers of the security establishment, they must be the witness and subject of enormous cruelty on a universal scale. bedpan has issued a correction as of 16:31 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 16:27
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Killin_Like_Bronson posted:Using Venezuela as a gotcha is something neoconservatives and neoliberals love when they reach the point of ignorance and just want to smear poo poo. Good job he's using chavez as a positive example are you dumb
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Jan 4, 2021 16:30
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Jinnigan posted:that's an extremely good criticism. how do you propose to stop that from happening. Electoralists co-opted the movement. Some would say the DSA now serves a similar function for leftist action at large at a lower, more long term level.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:33
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'BLM is a failure' is a massively idiotic position to hold. defund the police has been muzzled because the only path to anything changing is the destruction of the democratic party and that hasn't happened, but as jinnigan said there's been a pretty big increase in people that have been completely disillusioned with the political process, in organizing, in forging the links and contacts and networks and propaganda you're going to need to get to that point
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Jan 4, 2021 16:33
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mila kunis posted:he's using chavez as a positive example are you dumb Yes I am. i read that poorly and will leave my shame for all to see that I'm a moron who shouldn't post without knowing context.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:33
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PhilippAchtel posted:The BLM protests were as close to the gold standard as we've seen in this country for 60 years, but there were certainly establishment figures trying to pour cold water on it. It was difficult because racial justice is one of the things liberals pride themselves on. so here's the thing: FTV wasn't perfect, but it was probably okay, in the large scheme. having an okay or acceptable plan to affect change is fine, it's easy. it's the "ideas guy" of political organizing. actually building up the long-term organization, infrastructure, leadership, participation, is the actual work. you can tell if someone is committed to affecting political change by whether or not they are prepared to do all those things. Jimmy Dore has none of commitments, and this post shows exactly why Gumball Gumption posted:So who's at the force the vote actions today? Yesterday's video ended up inspiring me so I'm excited to see what they do today. pretty much every debate about this has focused on whether or not FTV is right, or if AOC Is good. very little of the debate that i’ve seen is about what the left should do, actually, at all, and neither side is asking you to do anything, as the left. that should be a clue.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:33
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https://twitter.com/GarbageApe/status/1346110574095192065
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Jan 4, 2021 16:34
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Cerebral Bore posted:seems to me that jimmy must a lot better at this poo poo if he can get the same results with just one millionth of the people involved ive been holding back on a shut the gently caress up about jimmy dore post through all these pests continuing to bring him up but youre the one that got me to pull the trigger. Shut the gently caress up about jimmy dore you unbelievable dipshit. hundreds of people lined up and got their asses kicked by cops last year because they were pissed about racial injustice it’s not their fault any more than dores that our sociopathic government went on ignoring them anyway but it’s infinitely more loving galling to act like their attempts were more ineffective/dumb than angry tweeting at dumb liberals
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Jan 4, 2021 16:35
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Jinnigan posted:for a thread dedicated to making fun of liberals you sure are infected with liberal notions of Great Individual Acts of History instead of keeping track of underlying conditions, contradictions, or hegemony guess that's somewhat true now that you're here
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Jan 4, 2021 16:35
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