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Sounds like a movie that could be funny in concept but in practice would star Adam Sandler.
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Jan 4, 2021 08:10
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https://twitter.com/ethnicohioan/status/1345842917961834496 What equipment disqualifies something from being a "real" climb? And isn't that some gatekeeping bullshit? I get that oxygen tanks would make things somewhat easier (discounting the additional problems of carrying them all the way), but it's not like it's some magic pill that means a slob like me could just stroll to the top.
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Jan 4, 2021 13:01
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Plus the whole thing with K2 isn't how tall it is. K2 is a death march and the mountain is actively trying to kill you.
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Jan 4, 2021 13:41
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How different would the 'let rich people climb the tallest mountain' industry be if Everest had ended up 250m shorter? The sane answer would be "barely existent" but experience says "Exactly like now but with an even more terrible death toll".
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Jan 4, 2021 13:58
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Atlas Hugged posted:Plus the whole thing with K2 isn't how tall it is. K2 is a death march and the mountain is actively trying to kill you. It also is much more prominent and further away from everything so to climb it at all is a huge trek followed by then having to climb up 4000 metres of frozen bullshit. The fact the main and only route up takes you across a 60 degree slope overhung by seracs should tell you just how dangerous K2 is.
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Jan 4, 2021 14:24
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Sunswipe posted:https://twitter.com/ethnicohioan/status/1345842917961834496 It’s just a dumb sports argument with but with more frozen corpses
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Jan 4, 2021 16:15
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You know, much funnier
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Jan 4, 2021 16:16
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Yep. In the spirit of most competitive sporting things, there is usually a somewhat arbitrary line drawn as to what constitutes outside assistance. 'Outside' generally meaning 'not born with it'. So Olympic swimmers don't get to wear flippers or certain advantageous swimsuits, but if you happen to born with size 20 feet and glossy smooth skin that's A-OK. For climbing extremely high mountains, the whole 'as nature intended' schtick is usually bypassed because climbing without oxygen is often just unnecessarily dangerous, and the genetic crapshoot as to whether your brain explodes at extreme altitude doesn't really have much relation to your physical fitness. That doesn't stop many top-tier climbers who are fine climbing without oxygen from looking down their noses at those that aren't because it takes away some of the challenge. The challenge here being 'struggling to breathe, maybe dying'.
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Jan 4, 2021 17:10
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Drone_Fragger posted:It also is much more prominent and further away from everything so to climb it at all is a huge trek followed by then having to climb up 4000 metres of frozen bullshit. The fact the main and only route up takes you across a 60 degree slope overhung by seracs should tell you just how dangerous K2 is. It’s been awhile since I read a bunch of climbing books but yeah iirc isn’t a big part of the climb super technical while giant ice and snow chunks randomly fall down over it even on a good day?
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Jan 4, 2021 17:15
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HugeGrossBurrito posted:It’s been awhile since I read a bunch of climbing books but yeah iirc isn’t a big part of the climb super technical while giant ice and snow chunks randomly fall down over it even on a good day? From my memory of reading a bunch of climbing books back during a previous iteration of this thread, K2 is much more technically challenging at various spots and those spots are at a much higher altitude than on Everest, which is a real double whammy. The famous part of K2 where they're walking under huge seracs isn't itself challenging, it's just stupidly dangerous because they could fall at any moment, so it's basically Russian Roulette to get to the technically challenging parts, which are dangerous for other reasons. I'm sure there's other parts where seracs can fall too, but I think we're both thinking of a certain section where it's a line of fixed ropes under a huge overhang. Again from my memory, the most challenging parts of Everest are in the Khumbu Icefall, which is fortunately (for the guide industry) just after Base Camp and not high on the mountain. A lot of the guide industry is about getting folks past this hard part by throwing a stupid amount of Sherpa labor at the problem, which they can do because it is so close to Base Camp. If there were another section much higher up with the same difficulty, it would be exponentially harder to do what they do with the Khumbu Icefall.
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Jan 4, 2021 17:44
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I don’t think Annapurna is as technically challenging as K2, but its avalanche risk puts it at something like three deaths for every ten summits. Nanga Parbat is up there in death rate. He’s what one climber has to say about the comparison: quote:In 2016, Txikon was part of a team that completed the first winter ascent of Nanga Parbat (8,126 meters), a mountain that had been attempted in winter more than 30 times before Txikon, Simone Moro of Italy, and Ali Sadpara of Pakistan succeeded. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 17:55
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Sat next to a guy who summited K2 in the 90:s at a dinner during a climbing meet. Asked him how many of his group that summited. He said he didn't know cause he was the only one who didn't turn back and made it back down alive. A sudden storm claimed the rest. K2 has killed so many excellent, highly skilled and motivated people. It has many objective dangers such as fixed lines that frequently break, sudden storms, collapsing seracs and extreme exposure. Being struck by HAPE/HACE or snow blindness on K2 is often a death sentence. There is no rescue up there unlike the ABC:s on Everest. I can see how its to many people find it comedic that people willingly risk their lives in the Himalayas. I don't. Sigmund Fraud fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 18:10
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HugeGrossBurrito posted:It’s been awhile since I read a bunch of climbing books but yeah iirc isn’t a big part of the climb super technical while giant ice and snow chunks randomly fall down over it even on a good day? It's far more of a technical climb to set up, but it is certainly possible to buy your way onto an expedition and make it up without much in the way of experience because your guides will do the hard work and setup fixed ropes. So you don't need to be an expert mountaineer or anything, but it is certainly more difficult than Everest is. And as stated, if you get struck with Snow Blindness or HAPE/HACE, there is no easy way down. It's not like random poo poo is falling on you every day though, it's more that the route is not free of avalanches/falling ice; even one of the camps (C2 or C3, can't remember) is exposed to avalanches, and reasonably often people ascend/descend to find their camp just destroyed. There's just no real way to remove yourself from being hit by one of those, the Russian Roulette analogy is a good one.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:37
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Jeza posted:Yep. In the spirit of most competitive sporting things, there is usually a somewhat arbitrary line drawn as to what constitutes outside assistance. 'Outside' generally meaning 'not born with it'. So Olympic swimmers don't get to wear flippers or certain advantageous swimsuits, but if you happen to born with size 20 feet and glossy smooth skin that's A-OK.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:40
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Jeza posted:Yep. In the spirit of most competitive sporting things, there is usually a somewhat arbitrary line drawn as to what constitutes outside assistance. 'Outside' generally meaning 'not born with it'. So Olympic swimmers don't get to wear flippers or certain advantageous swimsuits, but if you happen to born with size 20 feet and glossy smooth skin that's A-OK. It's such a stupid distinction. Are we going to ask mountaineers to climb without coats and crampons next? Also I think free diving has used fins forever (including moving to huge monofins) and nobody gives a poo poo as far as I'm aware. fe: yeah and then there's the gender thing.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:45
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Unless you're a woman with high testerone, in which case you can't compete because ~science~. Yeah it’s total bullshit that the line is drawn there. It’s fine if Phelps has uncommon body proportions or Eero Mäntyranta has uncommonly dense red blood cells, but if a woman has too much of the so‐called ‘man juice’, well that’s just unseemly.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:58
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Are the testosterone counts of male hyperperforming athletes just through the roof as well? I would assume they are.
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Jan 4, 2021 20:18
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PittTheElder posted:. Are we going to ask mountaineers to climb without coats and crampons next?  E: just the rich ones.
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Jan 4, 2021 20:53
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Life goal: First nude climb of Everest.
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Jan 4, 2021 21:00
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Pablo Bluth posted:Life goal: First nude climb of Everest. training by carefully climbing up very tall, attractive people
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Jan 4, 2021 21:09
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PittTheElder posted:It's far more of a technical climb to set up, but it is certainly possible to buy your way onto an expedition and make it up without much in the way of experience because your guides will do the hard work and setup fixed ropes. So you don't need to be an expert mountaineer or anything, but it is certainly more difficult than Everest is. And as stated, if you get struck with Snow Blindness or HAPE/HACE, there is no easy way down. I would disagree with the point re experience because experience can be some preparation but no amount of experience can be total preparation for K2. It's not just that its technical, its technical AND extremely exhausting because the technical part goes on for far longer than just about any other mountain and you have to get through it as fast as you possibly can to make the summit in a workable time-frame and no amount of preset ropes is going to do that for you, that effort has to be made by you. Now add the random dangers on top of that, and now you begin to see why the mountain is a killer. It asks way too much of even the best, most genetically-favored climbers, there are no genetics for this. And of course, you still have to make your way down and too many people are only thinking of the summit and not surviving the return.
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Jan 4, 2021 21:23
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Russian roulette is quite a bit safer than climbing K2, for every 6 people who attempt the mountain 4¼ make it home.
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Jan 4, 2021 22:04
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Pablo Bluth posted:Life goal: First nude climb of Everest. Wim Hof spotted
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Jan 4, 2021 22:48
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Azathoth posted:Wim Hof spotted I have a friend who is way in deep with the wim hof method. Is it really all that?
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Jan 4, 2021 23:14
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I've set my mind to it. I'm gonna be the first person to gently caress Mt. Everest.
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Jan 4, 2021 23:24
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ilmucche posted:I have a friend who is way in deep with the wim hof method. Is it really all that? I use the breathing techniques to help when my back pain gets bad, no idea on all the cold weather stuff though.
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Jan 4, 2021 23:28
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how about some awesome alpinism videos to break the everest negativity? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMMGFZh6wwI
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Jan 5, 2021 02:56
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Sigmund Fraud posted:how about some awesome alpinism videos to break the everest negativity? loving badass! This one is an oldie but a goodie. Ueli broke the record again in 2015 but I like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a0X9rdJ7hc RIP The Swiss Machine
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Jan 5, 2021 03:08
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https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10156275046798216 It's only appropriate to follow Ueli and David with another germanic alpinist: Hansjörg Auer in possibly the sketchiest rappel ever caught on tape.
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Jan 5, 2021 03:22
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Pablo Bluth posted:Life goal: First nude climb of Everest. https://www.instagram.com/p/CEO_P-NBOf8/ Close enough
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Jan 5, 2021 03:25
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shame on an IGA posted:Russian roulette is quite a bit safer than climbing K2, for every 6 people who attempt the mountain 4¼ make it home. ...dang
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Jan 5, 2021 04:12
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I was going to say “use a five-shooter”, but K2 is still worse.
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Jan 5, 2021 04:31
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Sigmund Fraud posted:https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10156275046798216 It's only appropriate to follow Ueli and David with another germanic alpinist: Hansjörg Auer in possibly the sketchiest rappel ever caught on tape. And of course Hansjörg and David died together in an avalanche along with Jess Rosskelley while descending Howse Peak in the Canadian Rockies last year.
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Jan 5, 2021 06:04
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Here is a video of someone climbing K2. In the best conditions. Gives an idea what it is like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-dMVvvIt8M (2 persons die when he is on the mountain)
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Jan 5, 2021 12:59
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gohuskies posted:And of course Hansjörg and David died together in an avalanche along with Jess Rosskelley while descending Howse Peak in the Canadian Rockies last year. Well, at least they died for a good reason ... *checks notes* climbing a mountain for no reason.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:52
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Rondette posted:The thought occurred to me, why aren't the Westerners or First World people paying them more, or just giving them some actual decent shoes?? They are walking around in knackered flip-flops with minimum 25kg strapped to their backs over rocky terrain, sleeping under plastic sheets and eating gruel. But then... if they treated them humanely then the three cups of tea rear end in a top hat said he was doing this, but turned out to be a liar who was blowing the money in fraudulent or at least useless ways fucker had to give some money back but otherwise suffered zero consequences
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Jan 5, 2021 16:23
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they might want better wages or access to some basic human rights
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I just finished reading "The Sky Below" by Scott Parazynski, a five-time space shuttle astronaut and the only astronaut to summit Everest. He was John Glenn's doctor during that space shuttle mission. It was...fine. Guys like that have to be driven, but whoooo boy does he have that Everest Fever. As his career progresses, he starts suggesting his marriage is deteriorating. His second child is autistic, and apparently he leaves it up to the missus to do the parenting of a child that needs a lot of care. Meanwhile, Columbia burns up and he decides, sorry, fam, I'm going up on another mission even though it's hinted that I'm denying slots for younger astronauts, and maybe my family thinks I shouldn't strap myself to a death rocket for a fifth time. He survives. Space career done. Takes out a home equity loan of $40,000 ("Gail isn't overly excited about the money part, or the time I'll spend away from the kids") and goes to Everest for two months. He makes it to Camp 4, slips a disc, and makes the smart decision to turn back before the summit. So what does he do? Go goes back to Everest the next year. Takes some Apollo 11 rocks with him. Summits. Gets back home. Surprise! Divorces. Then spends the last two chapters gushing about the new love of his life who happens to be the geologist who arranged the loan of the moon rocks. His first wife gets "my sincere gratitude" in the acknowledgements "for my two kids." At least he names all his Sherpa helpers.
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Jan 5, 2021 16:58
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That is pretty bad. However I wonder if people like that legitimately can't help themselves, and how much is genetic or cultural.
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Jan 5, 2021 17:27
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I have one non-autistic kid and my wife would divorce me if I took off for a long weekend.
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Jan 5, 2021 17:31
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PostNouveau posted:Well, at least they died for a good reason ... The gross thing about climbing is the $$$, bragging rights culture, and the unspoken reliance on Sherpas do do all the actual work. Risking your life to do stuff because it's cool is human and good. No one needs to justify their death with a good reason IMO. E: Unless they have kids
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Jan 5, 2021 17:34
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