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queeb posted:how do you cut and paste stuff/ im assuming that comes once you get robots?
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Jan 9, 2021 03:18
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necrotic posted:Electric smelters generally aren't worth it until you are adding modules. They produce at the same rate as steel and are more expensive from a fuel/power perspective. Yeah, beacons are where I was wondering how the layout would end up looking.
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Jan 9, 2021 03:21
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queeb posted:how do you cut and paste stuff/ im assuming that comes once you get robots? You can do it before bots, but it will just place down "ghosts". This can be helpful for planning and laying stuff out but it won't actually build anything for you. Once you get bots they'll helpfully place everything down for you, and you don't even have to have that stuff in your inventory (assuming it's somewhere in the logistics network)
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Jan 9, 2021 03:24
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SkyeAuroline posted:Yeah, beacons are where I was wondering how the layout would end up looking. You first must decide if you want to output 1 belt, 1.2 belt or 2 belts. As they only got 1 input it is actually pretty simple.
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Jan 9, 2021 03:34
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SkyeAuroline posted:Yeah, beacons are where I was wondering how the layout would end up looking. You can do 1 belt + smelter wide if you stagger:  Works without beacons as well. I think you can use less beacons if you min/max it. Also the garbage at the end is to make sure the belt is fully compressed (in the screenshot the outpost is backed up so it doesn't matter). With prod beacons this outputs a full lane of plates but only takes like ... 37 ore/s (vs 45 ore/s). I could be wrong on the exact number. You can do a similar thing with steel and direct insertion.  This ends up being really big because its 18 pairs (36 smelters) in a line. This uses a full input of 45 ore/s but the iron smelters are not fully utilized since it takes less than 1 to keep the steel smelters going. I'm not sure how much steel you get out of a full lane of ore with prod mods. Ultimately I'd avoid all of these even if you have the modules to spare. I did it for like the most recent 2-3 bases because I wanted to try and "minimize ups" and beacons let you use less total inserters / smelters. The thing is I have no idea if it helped or not and it takes so many modules. Instead 90% of my bases look like:  steel furnace 4 life.
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Jan 9, 2021 04:09
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Xerophyte posted:Blue belts are extremely gear-hungry, and even reds are pretty demanding. I still wouldn't suggest bussing gears, at least not on normal recipes. It makes your bus more complicated, gears are easy to build in-place (unlike, say, circuits) and 2:1 isn't a lot of extra compression. Newbie spoiler guide to logistics: If its a long distance trains are always best For any given "zone" logistics bots are always able to move the most, but bots are dumb and only path in straight lines, so make your zones roughly rectangular and densely populated enough with roboports to recharge drones at whatever throughput you have. If you turn on the logistics overlay in the map you can see where the orange zones overlap and the roboports link into a single network. You can zone your entire base under roboport coverage or you can make ultra-dense islands of 10k bots that are more efficient than any belt setup ever could be. Blue and Red belts are exponentially more expensive than yellow belts, so they are realistically only ever needed when you have per-tile space constraints, like beaconed setups. Not gonna lie though making everything out of blue belts is a flex. Space is infinite, so yellow belts are always the generic fallback, just add more in parallel.
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Jan 9, 2021 04:43
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I prefer electric furnaces over steel as soon as I get nuclear power, because it means I don’t have to coordinate coal or fuel.
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Jan 9, 2021 04:47
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SkyeAuroline posted:Yeah, beacons are where I was wondering how the layout would end up looking. This is one way to do it for a compressed blue-belt output. 
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Jan 9, 2021 06:21
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Man, I started watching Katherine sky's recent series and Holy. I'm way under building. She's got like 48 furnaces up and running like an hour in.
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Jan 9, 2021 09:01
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deltah posted:With prod beacons this outputs a full lane of plates but only takes like ... 37 ore/s (vs 45 ore/s). I could be wrong on the exact number. Are you modding in the ability to put prod modules on beacons?
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Jan 9, 2021 09:07
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queeb posted:Man, I started watching Katherine sky's recent series and Holy. I'm way under building. She's got like 48 furnaces up and running like an hour in. 48 furnaces (24 per side) is what you need to completely fill a yellow belt, so that's a common number to go for Tamba fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jan 9, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 09:08
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He means prod modules in the furnaces plus speed module beacons. You can't really do all-prod-modules anyway - the speed penalty makes things very inefficient, and you're spending enormous amounts of resources for a tiny trickle of production. You want speed modules to bring the speed back up to reasonable levels.
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Jan 9, 2021 09:10
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Jesus its 48 furnaces to fill a yellow belt? So going up to Reds and blue you need like multiple that amount? Lmao the scale of this game is great.
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Jan 9, 2021 09:15
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queeb posted:Jesus its 48 furnaces to fill a yellow belt? So going up to Reds and blue you need like multiple that amount? Lmao the scale of this game is great. 48 stone furnaces for yellow, 48 steel furnaces for red, 72 steel furnaces for blue.
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Jan 9, 2021 09:23
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It rocks that we had a couple goons post their very early factories with a dozen or fewer furnaces, then a page or two of tips and discussion about their bases, and only just now they’re learning you need 4x as many furnaces to fill one basic belt. You could play for 40 hours before figuring that out on your own.
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Jan 9, 2021 17:49
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The numbers are all right there in the tooltips (3.2s crafting time, 30 items per second on the belt), it's just that no one does the math as long as the belts look full. And they do all fill up because you generally do the smelting first creating a buffer, then production (but not enough to outproduce the smelting).
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Jan 9, 2021 18:08
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queeb posted:Jesus its 48 furnaces to fill a yellow belt? So going up to Reds and blue you need like multiple that amount? Lmao the scale of this game is great. necrotic posted:48 stone furnaces for yellow, 48 steel furnaces for red, 72 steel furnaces for blue. For those of you playing for the first time, these numbers are for copper/iron plates. Producing steel is twice the number of furnaces  Let your factory grow far and wide!
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Jan 9, 2021 18:10
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Twice the number to consume a belt of ore and convert it to 20% of a belt of steel, perhaps. It takes 5 iron plates to make 1 steel plate, and steel takes 5 times as long to make, so each iron furnace can support 1 steel furnace, but a single belt in will only get you 1/5th of a belt out. Veteran players tend to think of dedicated direct insertion steel smelting, but most of the time newer players who aren't used to dramatically and aggressively scaling up and planning out ratios will wind up doing them separately and siphoning some of their iron output into single-stage steel furnaces.
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Jan 9, 2021 18:17
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you're 100% right of course -- iirc it's 720 total furnaces to fill a blue belt before beacons.
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Jan 9, 2021 18:22
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K8.0 posted:Twice the number to consume a belt of ore and convert it to 20% of a belt of steel, perhaps. It takes 5 iron plates to make 1 steel plate, and steel takes 5 times as long to make, so each iron furnace can support 1 steel furnace, but a single belt in will only get you 1/5th of a belt out. I can't really think of a good direct-insert layout that also lets me deal with the coal, so at the start I just do an iron column then a steel column out of pure   IME I get to electric furnaces before the steel trickle becomes much of a problem; and I go against the grain in that I start to use those right away. gently caress stone and steel furnaces and their coal requirement, I don't care if they're more efficient at first 
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jan 9, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 18:28
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I don't like doing direct double smelting from ore to steel in my larger bases. Just build two smelters and run the output of the first into the input of the second. And with my megabases I recently switched to smelting directly at the mines and never shipping ore in the primary setup. The only exception is the early start before I get construction bots. There I build a speedrun style steel smelter.
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Jan 9, 2021 18:38
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Another useful number to know is that it takes 30 miners to produce a full yellow belt of ore (15 per side). For a full yellow belt of plates you'll want 30 miners into 48 stone furnaces / 24 steel furnaces. This also means for big patches over 15 miners tall / wide that yellow belt is not sufficient to mine a single line. Mining productivity, as well as speed modules, will make this 15 miner number lower. There are some mining layouts that help here but the easiest thing to do is upgrade the belt as you level up. https://factoriocheatsheet.com/ is a nice resource on this stuff. I'd recommend avoiding other peoples builds / blueprints for awhile, but the cheatsheet has some numbers that while you'd still want to avoid on your first base, can be a useful reference while still letting you figure out your own builds. deltah fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jan 9, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 18:46
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Ciaphas posted:I can't really think of a good direct-insert layout that also lets me deal with the coal, so at the start I just do an iron column then a steel column out of pure put the coal on the same belt you output the steel
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Jan 9, 2021 18:50
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I just parallel a coal belt by my central steel output belt and use long hands one way and short inserters the other way to handle everything.
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Jan 9, 2021 18:59
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I used to hate electric furnaces just cause I never felt like bringing the inputs together to make them beside the exorbitant smelting energy cost. Now that I make it a rule to get tons of nuclear power I'm never going to use all of, combined with them being used in science mean after that science is set up if I need to train things in I'm doing it after furnacing. My first outposted steel train set up was incredibly liberating for my low density structure production.
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Jan 9, 2021 19:09
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Yeah, the key for me on electric furnaces is adding them to my mall. That way whenever I end up slapping down an outpost for iron or steel or whatever, I have enough furnaces at the mall to fill it in. (Ok sometimes a steel smelter exceeds my mall’s designated chest capacity but whatever.)
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Jan 9, 2021 19:18
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zedprime posted:I used to hate electric furnaces just cause I never felt like bringing the inputs together to make them beside the exorbitant smelting energy cost. Now that I make it a rule to get tons of nuclear power I'm never going to use all of, combined with them being used in science mean after that science is set up if I need to train things in I'm doing it after furnacing. Oh yeah, I left the nuclear part unstated. You can get into that before even getting electric furnaces, I think, so by the time energy costs start spiking I'm long past worrying about it
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Jan 9, 2021 19:36
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K8.0 posted:I just parallel a coal belt by my central steel output belt and use long hands one way and short inserters the other way to handle everything. son of a god damnit i even do this for green circuits  thanks
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Jan 9, 2021 19:37
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Ciaphas posted:Oh yeah, I left the nuclear part unstated. You can get into that before even getting electric furnaces, I think, so by the time energy costs start spiking I'm long past worrying about it Definitely can, it's what I'm currently doing in my save (starter resource deposits fueling a mini mall for the first 3 science packs, kicking a reactor on so I can work on "better" infrastructure fully electrified, and going straight to electric furnaces). Side note: WTB long filter inserters
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Jan 9, 2021 20:02
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Personally I'm a fan of a double belt in the center of two rows of furnaces, with short and long-handed inserters on each side. With clever use of underground belts to place the power poles and staggering the long-handed inserters to accommodate the undergrounds, it makes for a great compact smelting that instantly replaces to steel furnaces right away. I should play again, but I keep losing steam around the mass-expansion phase. 
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Jan 9, 2021 20:31
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Pretty drat good for under ten hours, by my standards Now that I have things bused properly I think I'll do a refined concrete factory before I get on with blue science
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Jan 9, 2021 21:42
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I'm sure everyone here who was fond of Friday Factorio Facts (FFF) was sad to hear they ended regular updates with release. I present the community managed attempted replacement. Alternate Factorio Fan Facts! (Alt-F4) I cam across it the other day and although it's a bit rough at the beginning and some of the writing occasionally takes a second read, there's some really neat stuff in there and I recommend it if you enjoyed and miss regular FFF posts. I particularly liked the post highlighting the Space Exploration mod. I'm going to have to try it once I PS. Click on the Spidertron at the bottom of their pages. Trust me. Teledahn fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 9, 2021 23:33
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Krastorio green belts take an insane amount of steel. It doesn't help that green underground belts take 25 normal belts. I tried to upgrade from a red belt and a half of iron at my starter base to training in a green belt of iron and it was brutal. just making the green underground belts alone took multiple train loads of iron to feed my steel smelters. Thinking about trying to do the same thing again for steel is making me think about doing bot-based smelting instead. It's efficient but so boooring. Of course Krastorio steel requires two iron smelters per steel smelter so it kind of incentivizes moving away from belts at that point anyways. I much prefer regular factorio's neat 1:1 ratio which encourages setting up custom furnace lines for steel that go iron ore->iron smelter->steel smelter->steel plate output belt.
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Jan 9, 2021 23:34
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Ciaphas posted:Pretty drat good for under ten hours, by my standards Ultrawide Factorio is a beautiful thought, apparently. On the note of that plan, how many people actually use refined concrete? I can honestly say I've never once built a block of it.
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Jan 10, 2021 00:33
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I mainly use regular concrete and hazard concrete to mark out blocks, but sometimes you just gotta be pretty.
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Jan 10, 2021 00:34
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boilers can power MORE THAN ONE STEAM ENGINE? 
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Jan 10, 2021 01:20
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Kvlt! posted:boilers can power MORE THAN ONE STEAM ENGINE? Congratulations on having suddenly twice as much power as you did before
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Jan 10, 2021 01:23
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Kvlt! posted:boilers can power MORE THAN ONE STEAM ENGINE? 24 boilers, 48 steam engines Burn all the trees to make steam. It definitely will not backfire later! E: Yeah, whoops, it is 20 boilers 40 engines Doctor Hospital fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 10, 2021 01:51
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20 boilers/40 engines per offshore pump. A boiler uses 60 water/second.
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Jan 10, 2021 03:36
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LLSix posted:Krastorio green belts take an insane amount of steel. It doesn't help that green underground belts take 25 normal belts. I skipped straight to purple belts from blue in my K2 play, and I think greens were always my chokepoint. So fast, though! I had a lot of fun just watching my factories after that.
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Jan 10, 2021 03:44
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