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Guavanaut posted:Libertarian Sim City where you're not allowed to set taxes or do zoning.
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Dec 21, 2020 22:47
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Doc Hawkins posted:the Cities: Skylines community helped me realize that all of these games were really just diorama-builders with a bit of friction. like software fishtanks: really you can do anything or nothing and declare victory, but you want to have a fun mix of terrain, and have cute species that don't fight, and keep the ph balanced, etc. and some people get into turning all that off and doing the model train/city thing. Yep, you can download the entire russian/eastern european residential catalog off the workshop and build your ideal centrally planned social housing paradise.
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Dec 21, 2020 23:04
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That's kinda why I tend to prefer the games that use missions to give more of a purpose towards what you're doing. Cities Skylines actually evolved from a game about working out traffic problems.
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Dec 22, 2020 00:40
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If more city sim game chat is okay Tropico is my favorite since it still has a sense of an outside, somewhat hostile world you’re preparing to deal with and a (shallow but good enough) system of enemy raids that give you a sense of purpose and urgency so you can do more than make number go up.
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Dec 23, 2020 05:04
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:If more city sim game chat is okay Tropico is my favorite since it still has a sense of an outside, somewhat hostile world you’re preparing to deal with and a (shallow but good enough) system of enemy raids that give you a sense of purpose and urgency so you can do more than make number go up. also you can identify and persecute individual simps (gamer term for "simulated people")
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Dec 23, 2020 20:36
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Doc Hawkins posted:also you can identify and persecute individual simps (gamer term for "simulated people") is this the new term for that lovely "npc" meme now.
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Dec 23, 2020 21:07
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Guavanaut posted:Libertarian Sim City where you're not allowed to set taxes or do zoning. 
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Dec 23, 2020 21:22
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I barely ever had to deal with uprisings in Tropico because I kept on pushing up the standard of living and never aggravated the US or USSR. I even kept an oversized army because it makes a political faction happy.Doc Hawkins posted:also you can identify and persecute individual simps (gamer term for "simulated people") Not what I've seen that word used to mean at all. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/simp https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Simp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WzswZXTMZQ
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Dec 23, 2020 21:53
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I've always been surprised that one of the "guests" in this thread hasn't brought up the Republic of Ireland's [strike]growing status as a global tax haven[/strike] lack of innovation-destroying taxes. That's becoming more and more popular amongst people who think that extracting as much wealth as possible is a noble undertaking.
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Dec 23, 2020 22:06
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SlothfulCobra posted:Not what I've seen that word used to mean at all. I always assumed it came from "simpering" given how it's used.
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Dec 24, 2020 05:28
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i was just kidding, it's definitely this
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Dec 24, 2020 05:45
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Dec 29, 2020 00:31
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I love how the right side of his face is creepier than the left. He looks creepier than the sum of his parts.
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Dec 29, 2020 03:00
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thanx i hate it
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Dec 29, 2020 03:31
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Found a guy https://philpeople.org/profiles/stephen-kershnar/publications?order=viewings 
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Dec 31, 2020 06:31
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Jan 10, 2021 16:58
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One of the things that always gives away their game is that it isn't enough for them to want some free market /minimal government, they want to destroy socialism utterly. Like to some of them it seems like they hate socialism far more than they love the free market. Someone upthread suggested there's a great deal of narcissism in their beliefs to the extent they wouldn't be willing to coexist in a socialist society, even if they weren't under any obligation to contribute. So on one hand they want to be some sort of FYGM island but on the other they'd prefer if every other landmass sunk into the ocean as well. Another pattern I observed arguing with Libertarians online is what I call 'Heisenbergs' Libertarian; that at any given time an observer cannot know the exact position, role and size of an ideal Governnent to a Libertarian. If you point out government is needed to protect private property and enforce contracts, they'll concede that if course they want enough governnent for that. But when you remind them that the same power can turn the jackboots on them eventually they deny that it could simultaneously have enough power to keep others under their heel without oppressing them in other ways. I've learned that horseshoe theory isn't real but it's a funny coincidence that a lot of core principles many libertarians espouse (the freedom to do whatever they want, having the means to maintain a secure well being and level playing field) are directly contradictory to an actual free market, and much more aligned with socialism in my opinion. Maybe this is because they are making a lot of bad faith claims as fascists are prone to doing?
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Jan 10, 2021 17:31
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Panfilo posted:One of the things that always gives away their game is that it isn't enough for them to want some free market /minimal government, they want to destroy socialism utterly. Like to some of them it seems like they hate socialism far more than they love the free market. Someone upthread suggested there's a great deal of narcissism in their beliefs to the extent they wouldn't be willing to coexist in a socialist society, even if they weren't under any obligation to contribute. So on one hand they want to be some sort of FYGM island but on the other they'd prefer if every other landmass sunk into the ocean as well. I'm reading Shock Doctrine and Naomi Klein points this out with Milton Friedman, Pinochet, and the Chilean coup. And that's a good point about how many libertarians are more anti-socialism than pro-free market or pro-liberty. There is a definite libertarian-to-fascist pipeline that sucks in a lot people, usually white men, and turns that anti-establishment impulse into a weird authoritarian bent where you're okay if other people are left to die since they're not deserving of life. The later parts of Atlas Shrugged really show that.
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Jan 10, 2021 18:23
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I think most commonly they argue against welfare programs because they believe it translates to higher taxes and think that any taxes are somehow screwing them over. More detailed grievances often are the result of being specifically involved in the area being regulated or impacted, landlords who hate affordable housing or eviction limits, employers who hate giving healthcare or minimum wage, things like that. Sometimes they do just do away with justifications and just hate people, but at that point they usually get tired of trying to maintain themselves as libertarian and jump over to a more popular conservative movement. Horseshoe theory isn't true as like a tangible rule, but it's true in the observation that you will often find people with strikingly similar views in supposedly wildly disparate political/philosophical camps, even if they have very different justifications and reasonings for how they got to where they are.
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Jan 10, 2021 18:31
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Isn't it because fascism and communism share a Marxist origin but fascism takes advantage of an adult's desire for nastolga and the inherit alienation of a liberal society and instead of blaming the bourgeoisie they instead blame a duplicitous"other"? So both believe the media is captured but we'd believe it's because they're for-profit enterprises and therefore protect themselves but they'll blame The Jews or whatever.
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Jan 10, 2021 19:16
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Bobby Digital posted:Found a guy Of course he works at a public university. Also "This book provides a philosophical analysis of adult-child sex and pedophilia. The sex intuitively strikes many people, including myself, as sick, disgusting, and wrong. The problem is that it is not clear whether these judgments are justified and whether they are aesthetic or moral. By analogy, many people find it disgusting to view images of obese people having sex, but it is hard to see what is morally undesirable about such sex. Here the judgment is aesthetic. This book looks at the moral status of such adult-child sex. In particular, it explores whether those who engage in adult-child sex have a disease, act wrongly, or are vicious. In addition, it looks at how the law should respond to such sex given the above analyses." This is nightmare fodder.
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Jan 10, 2021 19:19
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I don't think this person has any clue how Central Banks were created or worked. Then again they're a libertarian so they don't have any idea how anything works.
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Jan 10, 2021 19:24
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HootTheOwl posted:Isn't it because fascism and communism share a Marxist origin but fascism takes advantage of an adult's desire for nastolga and the inherit alienation of a liberal society and instead of blaming the bourgeoisie they instead blame a duplicitous"other"? Fascism doesn't really have anything to do with marxism doctrinally that I'm aware of, it's an outgrowth of weird 19th century race science and a whole bunch of bizzare... I would almost say spiritualism? About the necessity and rightness of race war and the superiority of particular races and poo poo. It was called the socialism of fools because it worked hard at its inception to try and market itself the same way to people, which it still does today, it tries to piggyback onto other movements which it can do quite easily because it is largely an aesthetic and emotive political ideology, it will basically take anything that makes people het up and try to steer it towards racism and authoritarian subjugation "inferior" races and types of people. Its conflation with marxism is literally that tweet, marxists object to the idea of wealth hoarding by capitalists, nazis go "we hate jews and you know who's hoarding all the wealth???" That the latter is wrong on many levels doesn't really matter because antisemitism is (especially at the time) a form of highly acceptable racism that a lot of people wanted an excuse to indulge. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 10, 2021 19:27
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OwlFancier posted:Fascism doesn't really have anything to do with marxism doctrinally that I'm aware of, it's an outgrowth of weird 19th century race science and a whole bunch of bizzare... I would almost say spiritualism? In the forms that we've seen it it does seem to require Marxism though, if only to be a malignant and stunted form of the same response to industrial capitalism. e: What Primo Levi called 'the perversion of work' is probably the most succinct example, in that one venerates workers and the other venerates work camps.
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Jan 10, 2021 19:48
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Yeah I actually struggle to pin down the real core of it because it can really just glom onto anything more or less, some things are harder for it to stick to but almost anybody can mentally rewrite the tenets to say "me and people I like are inherently and essentially superior to people I don't like" and the rest of the ideas can be plugged directly in.
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Jan 10, 2021 19:52
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The part of the core that built work camps seems to be the exact same drive behind the British tabloid assertion that "you go out and work every day, but Those People are sat on their arses Getting Away With It!" Even most of the people placed in said camps, Roma/Travellers, gay men, petty criminals, long term unemployed, 'asocials', alcoholics, etc. have been the target of those poo poo papers long after the era of fascism as not working hard or doing the wrong work or costing you, the honest worker, and a lot of the fascist angle for antisemitism was the whole 'merchant class' BS. In both cases, it served as a distraction from systemic problems that left the worker alienated and exploited.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:06
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I don't really know much about the "founders" of fascism to say whether they actually had any ties to Marx's teachings, but there is a lot I've seen written that fascism generally doesn't act like a real ideology in general and tends to be a bunch of ad-hoc rhetoric about gut feelings that often falls more into personality cults rather than a meaningful or logical belief system. If you look at the nazis, it's worth noting that they called themselves "national socialists" which does actually mean something beyond just being a spooky buzzword to associate them with modern leftists. It's an attempt at a nationalist variant of socialism, which means that it had the goal of providing welfare specifically for their nationality (or race or religion, whichever delimiter they wanted to use to separate people to form an in-group that gets the services and the outgroup that doesn't). It also means that when they go to take down or nationalize businesses, they'll target members outside of the in-group or even accuse people of being outside the in-group to provide cause to attack them. In general it's much easier just to attack out-groups than it is to provide infrastructure for the general good, and especially if you're trying to specifically leave people out of the welfare system for the sake of bitterness, your welfare system will wind up crippled, inefficient, and inadequate.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:09
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But as far as privatization goes as far as I am aware the nazis were not at all socialist, they privatized a bunch of poo poo and contracted everything out to major companies. The closest they came to "nationalizing" anything was stealing poo poo from the people they genocided which I object to calling "socialism" because it has gently caress all to do with anything, it's just racially motivated murder and pillage.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:14
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OwlFancier posted:But as far as privatization goes as far as I am aware the nazis were not at all socialist, they privatized a bunch of poo poo and contracted everything out to major companies. The closest they came to "nationalizing" anything was stealing poo poo from the people they genocided which I object to calling "socialism" because it has gently caress all to do with anything, it's just racially motivated murder and pillage. You're totally right, but I can guarantee that American right-wingers would call a lot of their programs socialist. Volkswagen, for example, was a government-funded attempt to build a cheap car for the masses (literally the 'people's car'.) They did the same thing for radios and TVs. Of course, the people were still expected to buy these items, and IIRC paid for a lot of the development directly by upfront deposits. It's as socialist as the ACA: essentially a massive handout to private industry. Though as I'm remembering they did nationalize some things for war production, like the Reichswerke Hermann Göring, and there were later attempts to mandate reductions in profit margins for private companies (again, for war production.) If the US tried any of this Republicans would throw fits about how communists are taking over the government. A better way to look at it is that they adopted some the goals of socialism re: improving people's lives, applied them solely to Aryan German nationals, and tried to perform those goals via their own methods: murdering, stealing, and slave labor, with a healthy dose of stealing from the future by making their economy completely unstable to meet short-term goals. They were comically bad at all of it.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:33
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If we're including state direction and takeover of industry during ww2 as socialism then I have unfortunate news about literally everyone fighting it. But even if they took some things under state control they absolutely still contracted poo poo out, like a lot of the heavy tank development was literally putting tenders out to a bunch of companies to try and make them which is why they ended up with some of the absolutely insane poo poo like the porsche tigers. Because Porsche was so sure his brilliant design was going to win the tender he build a loving pile of them and then when they rejected his piece of poo poo tank that broke down too much for even the nazis to use it, he was like "well I just used up steel and labour time in 1943 building you 100 heavy tanks that you don't want so have fun with that" and the nazis were like "uhhhhh ok" and so they turned them into a piece of poo poo tank destroyer that broke down a lot. Say what you want about the nazis but while they were genocidal maniacs they also invented the worst outcomes of modern public private partnerships in 1940.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:43
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As I understand it, within Germany the Nazis tried to frame their actions with a lot of propaganda about how they were empowering themselves as the master race and trying to co-opt anti-elitist and anti-upper class sentiment and turn it towards racism, framing jews, slavs, roma, and various undesirables as the elite that they were destroying for the sake of the people. Their actual programs to try to do welfare or public works or subsidize the birth of more racially pure children were largely failures, but in all their rhetoric they wouldn't admit to that. That's part of how fascism doesn't really seem to hold together when you treat it as an ideology; fascists care more about the appearance than the actual function. They won't put in the effort to make sure any of their plans work because it's easier just to check that the fanaticism's still being kept up, and they'll pay off anybody whose fanaticism can just be bought, so there's plenty of room for people to just profess their loyalty to steal whatever they can get, often even at the very top of the command structure where people will endanger their own supposed causes for personal enrichment.
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Jan 10, 2021 21:22
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I used my ill-gotten Jew gold to buy my membership to this forum.
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Jan 10, 2021 22:31
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https://twitter.com/ronpaul/status/1348694943905308672?s=21
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Jan 12, 2021 05:54
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Accursed statists at facebook are violating the NAP!!! E:  https://twitter.com/Almijisti/status/1348696574080282624 OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jan 12, 2021 |
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Jan 12, 2021 06:03
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OwlFancier posted:Accursed statists at facebook are violating the NAP!!! I find it amusing how often they turn to some weird thing about corporations not being capitalism because it’s a government designation, but yet still want to take credit for the (good) things they do.
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Jan 12, 2021 15:37
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OwlFancier posted:Accursed statists at facebook are violating the NAP!!! Libertarianism can never fail, it can only be failed.
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Jan 12, 2021 19:49
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Katt posted:Then they released those cubes telling people what to do to get force powers and it was like hundreds of hours of stuff the player didn't enjoy and everyone quit the game. I just remember some point where someone found a way to glitch some money and they just transported every player who had interacted with the ill-gotten credits unknowingly or not into space lmao
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Jan 12, 2021 20:09
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Guavanaut posted:The part of the core that built work camps seems to be the exact same drive behind the British tabloid assertion that "you go out and work every day, but Those People are sat on their arses Getting Away With It!" 
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Jan 12, 2021 21:31
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https://twitter.com/yeahrightgirlhg/status/1349949796585402369?s=21 Bonus 
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Jan 17, 2021 19:50
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I love how this just pretends other countries with fast food and reasonable minimum wages just don't exist.
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Jan 17, 2021 20:06
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