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Angry Salami posted:Forget holodecks, does Bajor not have a nice beach they could visit? Is Risa really that much nicer that it's worth all cramming into a runabout for days to get there? Risa is an entire planet dedicated to no strings attached sex in a tropical paradise. Best case on Bajor is a drunken one night stand with a Bajoran with a 75% chance of getting stuck in long talk about the Prophets the next day.
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Jan 19, 2021 06:52
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Sash! posted:Because it isn't real. They sort of ignore it after a while, but there's enough talk about the Holodeck not being a perfect recreation. People queue to see the Mona Lisa at a distance in a crowded room despite the fact you can get a high quality print of it for your own home that in a frame looks basically identical.
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Jan 19, 2021 07:32
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Angry Salami posted:Forget holodecks, does Bajor not have a nice beach they could visit? Is Risa really that much nicer that it's worth all cramming into a runabout for days to get there? People go to Risa because there are a bunch of people willing to gently caress and suck whoever goes there.
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Jan 19, 2021 07:44
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Just got to the "the higher, the fewer" episode in my TNG watch and, hoo boy, that sure was an episode of Star Trek
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Jan 19, 2021 07:46
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Page 2021 in 2021.
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Jan 19, 2021 08:00
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Gonz posted:Page 2021 in 2021.
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Jan 19, 2021 08:29
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He's the real champ with all the corn syrup he had to drink on that show.
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Jan 19, 2021 08:33
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I want a series that has transporters that are only used for moving goods and people are horrified at the thought of actually using them for people since they fuckin kill you
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Jan 19, 2021 09:06
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Wheeee posted:I want a series that has transporters that are only used for moving goods and people are horrified at the thought of actually using them for people since they fuckin kill you that's bait.gif This is a stupid debate every time it comes up.
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Jan 19, 2021 10:01
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Wheeee posted:I want a series that has transporters that are only used for moving goods and people are horrified at the thought of actually using them for people since they fuckin kill you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CWW8HX-vNU
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Jan 19, 2021 10:08
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You'll have to read between the lines, but people are swapped out for demons when they use the transporter.
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Jan 19, 2021 10:14
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8one6 posted:that's bait.gif
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Jan 19, 2021 10:27
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Nessus posted:What I wonder is if it independently originates from people seeing The Prestige or if it's in a Kevin Smith movie or what. I mean there's an episode where they show a character's perspective during transport; this is where your suspension of disbelief breaks down, and not on the hybrid of a human and a copper-blooded organism? Well, there’s just about every single “The Science of Star Trek” type book from the late 90s, plus a tv special of the same name where Michio Kaku (iirc?) basically said outright “the transporter as shown is impossible, a real one would be a color xerox that kills the current you and makes a new one”, and a Breaking Bad scene where Badger and Skinny Pete say basically the same thing.
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Jan 19, 2021 10:32
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Just wait until these guys find out about the speeds warp travels at
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Jan 19, 2021 10:41
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loving lol if you think everyone gets the concept of continuity of consciousness from kevin smith movies, project harder star trek would be better for embracing the star wars method of not even trying to explain their space magic
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Jan 19, 2021 11:17
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Wheeee posted:loving lol if you think everyone gets the concept of continuity of consciousness from kevin smith movies, project harder I wonder this because I know that sometimes certain ideas and things become kind of, the canonical explanation? Like at the risk of breaching the containment field: the conversation about the Star Wars prequels is in many cases really strongly informed by what was in Red Letter Media's reviews. These are not necessarily invalid views, but I have often seen lengthy conversations that boiled down to "I can't believe anybody would ever not agree with the RLM reviews!" "indeed." "indeed." "well i thought the podracing scenes were exci" "SHUT THE gently caress UP" So like if there's some popular podcast where Episode 32 is about how frickin stupid the transporter is and how it obviously kills you, it would be neat to know that. Hell, I might even enjoy the podcast.
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Jan 19, 2021 11:49
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The real reason transporters work is because everyone is actually unknowingly trapped in holodecks and whenever they "transport" it's actually just the holodeck changing the locations while distracting the person being transported.
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Jan 19, 2021 12:08
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They work because souls are real in Star Trek it's as simple as that.
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Jan 19, 2021 12:43
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HopperUK posted:They work because souls are real in Star Trek it's as simple as that. Unless you're a Talaxian.
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Jan 19, 2021 12:55
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8one6 posted:Unless you're a Talaxian. this is bullshit, neelix deserves to spend eternity in hell
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Jan 19, 2021 13:12
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Nessus posted:What I wonder is if it independently originates from people seeing The Prestige or if it's in a Kevin Smith movie or what. I mean there's an episode where they show a character's perspective during transport; this is where your suspension of disbelief breaks down, and not on the hybrid of a human and a copper-blooded organism? It dates back to 1775 in an analogous form https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletransportation_paradox
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Jan 19, 2021 13:36
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dude its fine, I also blame Kevin Smith whenever someone has ideas I don't like
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Jan 19, 2021 14:06
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Balance the equation!
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Jan 19, 2021 15:25
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Wheeee posted:loving lol if you think everyone gets the concept of continuity of consciousness from kevin smith movies, project harder Star Wars, famous for definitely not explaining its space magic ever.
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Jan 19, 2021 15:44
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Life creates a magic field that you can manipulate because some symbiotic relationship with another life form is barely an explanation of how the Force works. No one knows how hyperdrives or shields work. Or how lightsaber works. Or repulsors. Or anything. They just do.
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Jan 19, 2021 17:49
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Wheeee posted:I want a series that has transporters that are only used for moving goods and people are horrified at the thought of actually using them for people since they fuckin kill you This is more or less everyone's attitude in the first season of Enterprise
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Jan 19, 2021 18:20
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Sash! posted:Life creates a magic field that you can manipulate because some symbiotic relationship with another life form is barely an explanation of how the Force works. they work because they got buffed with voodoo hide
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Jan 19, 2021 18:22
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Kibayasu posted:Star Wars, famous for definitely not explaining its space magic ever. Watching the two good Star Wars movies and then proceeding to read a (classic) Star Wars EU novel like Allegiance really hammers home the point of how Star Wars wasn't sci-fi before the prequels. It's remarkable how much superfluous technobabble you get in the novels, and how little there is in the movies. Then you get to midichlorians and from there it's just bad half sci-fi. Star Trek was always sci-fi, with all the pretence of science that entails.
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Jan 19, 2021 18:40
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BonHair posted:Star Trek was always sci-fi, with all the pretence of science that entails. Star Trek is sci-fi in the same way that the Twilight Zone is sci-fi. Sure, you have spaceships and aliens and whatever, but it's not hard science fiction....Star Trek episodes are morality tales...how should you deal with racism? Should we interfere with a culture that's obviously going down a destructive path, or let them make their own mistakes? To what extent is our identity wrapped up with our job, and does increased mechanization/computerization threaten that? What would our society look like if we gave into our base impulses? What's the deal with all these hippies all of a sudden? The science is incidental. You have faster than light travel and alien planets because it's a way to set up situations where the stories can happen. You have aliens who are almost human but have some special trait that highlights human vices or virtues, so we can explore that vice or virtue. You have site to site teleportation because the production is too cheap for special effects showing the ship landing.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:15
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Agreed on all points, except it's still covered in the trappings of science with vaguely plausible expansions. So I'd still call it soft sci-fi.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:25
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BonHair posted:Star Trek was always sci-fi, with all the pretence of science that entails. I don't really agree - the obsession with how the enterprise works and the development of technobabble was largely subsequent to TOS. There's very little of the actual mechanical stuff back then.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:30
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BonHair posted:Agreed on all points, except it's still covered in the trappings of science with vaguely plausible expansions. So I'd still call it soft sci-fi. I still think of the time somebody asked a member of the Star Trek cast/crew how inertial dampeners worked, and got the answer "very well, actually". This stuff was not really well thought out because they didn't care a lot. Its something the TOS writers guide actually stresses. It points out that "We want to be scientifically accurate, but our focus is on people and story, and that takes precedence. quote:Tell your story about people, not about science and gadgetry. Joe Friday doesn't stop to explain the mechanics of his .38 before he uses it; Kildare never did a monologue about the theory of anesthetics; Matt Dillon never identifies and discusses the breed of his horse before he rides off on it.
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Jan 19, 2021 19:48
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BonHair posted:Watching the two good Star Wars movies and then proceeding to read a (classic) Star Wars EU novel like Allegiance really hammers home the point of how Star Wars wasn't sci-fi before the prequels. It's remarkable how much superfluous technobabble you get in the novels, and how little there is in the movies. There is technobabble in the movies, but it's kinda scant. It feels more like they're just using the specific terminology for their technology. C-3PO gives his "Human-Cyborg relations" spiel, and Uncle Owen shuts him down and says that he wants him to work with "moisture vaporators" and asks him if he can speak "bocce". A droid blows up and Luke complains about its "motivator". Later on you've got the Death Star briefing, and it's mostly in very understandable terminology, but they slip in that the exhaust port is "ray-shielded" and they'd have to use "proton torpedoes" and they get ordered to set their "shields to double-front." Which I guess is very different from what Star Trek does where they use technobabble because they really want to convince you that there's some kind of coherent science to everything they do, because the fake-science technobabble routine is part of fantasizing about a future where some kind of fancy science underlies all these miracles, and it's part of the aesthetic appeal of the show. If you took your car to a Star Trek mechanic, they'd tell you "the explosive reaction by which your vehicle creates the energy to propel itself isn't being initiated because of the lack of stored energy in your vehicle's auxiliary electrical supply, and we may be able to recharge its reservoir, but it's possible the component itself has reached the end of its operational lifespan" while a Star Wars mechanic would say "You got a dead battery. Might be faulty. You want a jump, or you want we should replace the whole thing?" and then they'd mention some kind of brand names. And then the Star Trek mechanic would offer to top off your headlight fluid for free because they both want you to like them and want a big buffer of time so that they don't have to work fast, while the Star Wars mechanic would just try to get your money, but you could either haggle or try to do the repair yourself assuming you can get the parts.
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Jan 19, 2021 20:18
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I demand that all science in science fiction stories to be 100% real, personally.
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Jan 19, 2021 20:19
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Boxturret posted:I demand that all science in science fiction stories to be 100% real, personally. Welcome to the wonderful world of hard sci-fi. I must admit I thought of TNG era Trek, not TOS, because I honestly never managed to get through the entire thing. It's just too dated for me. I should probably do a revisit of just the best ten episodes or something.
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Jan 19, 2021 20:26
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BonHair posted:Welcome to the wonderful world of hard sci-fi. I'm kind of the other way around, I guess. I saw TOS before TNG went on the air, so for me, TOS is "real" Star Trek, and while I like TNG, it's not the first place my brain goes.
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Jan 19, 2021 20:33
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BonHair posted:Welcome to the wonderful world of hard sci-fi. The only difference between hard scifi and soft scifi is whether the technobabble involved can be looked up in a real scientific lexicon instead of the fictionpedia for the setting. If there's nothing actually speculative or extrapolative about it then it's not sci-fi at all, it's just a drama or thriller or whatever with contemporary (or past) scientific trappings. This entire conversation is the domain of snobs and cliquery.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:01
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It's not a hard definition but who cares because genres are made up things anyway. But to me sci-fi always has a "what if" element. Which also, 99% of the time, means dealing with humans and/or Earth. Star Wars isn't about Earth and arguably may not even be about humans, so that's ultimately what puts it at the very edge of sci-fi and really more into fantasy for me.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:23
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Just saw the DS9 james-bond-in-the-holodeck episode and that was a lot of BS technobabble even for trek.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:24
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I knew Roddenberry’s looting of the Trek film archive to sell it off with Lincoln Enterprises was bad, but until recently I didn’t know it was so bad that it’s one of the reasons TOS S3 had to use stock footage for all the Enterprise fx shots. I mean come on, Gene. What an rear end.
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Jan 19, 2021 21:32
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