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i say swears online posted:https://www.politico.eu/article/1-in-3-europeans-say-us-cant-be-trusted-poll-donald-trump-joe-biden/ should be much higher...especially the French...unless they are enjoying it broken and seeing it fixed would reduce their entertainment
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Jan 19, 2021 19:27
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The Puppet Master posted:should be much higher...especially the French...unless they are enjoying it broken and seeing it fixed would reduce their entertainment
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Jan 19, 2021 19:34
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multijoe posted:This way they didn't have to shoot Corbyn with the extremely sudden onset of cancer gun haha alt 2017 where tom watson takes over game was rigged from the start, kid
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Jan 19, 2021 21:19
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Edwin Poots
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Jan 19, 2021 22:13
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poots/balls alliance
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Jan 19, 2021 23:10
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https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/1351628237546381313George Osbourne posted:Those who want to keep the UK together need to respond with new, powerful arguments against separation. After all, hasn’t the EU negotiations shown Scots that the whip hand lies with the larger, more powerful bloc? [...] But there’s a problem: this Brexiteer premier can’t say any of this. So what’s the second plan? Simple. Refuse to hold a referendum. It’s the only sure way you won’t lose one. Yes, the SNP will be in full cry — but so what? [...]Ask the jailed Catalonian leaders how their illegal poll worked out.
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Jan 20, 2021 12:23
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Fast Luck posted:Labour trying to fix that anti- There's a point to make about this that has bothered me since I first read the story. Miftan already raised (in ukmt) the point that unit 8200 is the largest unit in the IDF, and mostly deals with the paperwork and logistics issues that go alongside being a modern army. Now this guy is clearly being hired as a twitter snitch, almost certainly as part of the labour party effort to purge leftists and outsource everything that could potentially cause grassroot surges. He has prior experience working as a twitter snitch as a Labour party suffered a massive election collapse in the face of Netanyahu's naked corruption and dictatorial ambition, so he's very clearly not being hired to win anything (contrast this with the tories social media hires of 2019, who were fresh off winning an election with a phenominal array of dirty tricks and smears). He may have been an actual army spook, and if the IDF experience was relevant to his application then we can probably assume that he is. The problem here is that Sqwakbox came out saying "He's from spook division", and that's a technically dishonest framing of events. I don't think they can support that part of the accusation on unit history alone, and I haven't yet seen anything that would survive libel challenges wrt him being an actual military spook. That is a bad thing to assume for very, very obvious reasons, and frankly I think the original piece is genuinely antisemitic in that specific assumption. If he's a penpusher, then choosing to frame this story in this way is something I don't feel I could, or want to, defend from allegations of antisemitic bias. It's would be a much stronger allegation than the one that downed Wadsworth, or any obvious bullshit about novels or murals. On top of that, hiring a former penpusher from penpusher-and-spook division as a twitter bait-and-snitch is probably within the Labour right's capability, albeit at the top end. Any reasonable doubts about Starmer being a wrecker were utterly destroyed during the Long-Bailey fiasco. So accusing this guy of being a spy, basing that accusation on his former history when, as miftan put it, you could literally just replace that part with "hires an israeli", feels like both a moral red line and an invitation to get hosed up by some lawyers. Be careful what you allege against a guy who is literally being hired to crush your dissent. Otoh, if anyone has seen something that shows this dude was actually a military spook then I would feel very reassured to see this.
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Jan 20, 2021 13:45
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I don't see how you would claim in good faith that calling an IDF guy a spook is antisemitic. Totally weird to me.
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Jan 20, 2021 13:57
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genericnick posted:I don't see how you would claim in good faith that calling an IDF guy a spook is antisemitic. Totally weird to me. I have only heard "spook" used as a slur towards black people. You would have to work real hard to make the case that it's antisemitic.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:07
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He's in military intelligence, calling him a spook is completely justified. It's not some special status reserved for elite extra-secret spies
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Jan 20, 2021 14:12
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genericnick posted:I don't see how you would claim in good faith that calling an IDF guy a spook is antisemitic. Totally weird to me. have you seen britain? Whether you think the accusation is fair or not, I promise you it will be weaponised. as for good faith, it wouldn't have occurred to me without seeing someone correcting the claim - it being the big generic unit and not the spook unit, then assuming he's a spook, this creates a guilt by association on grounds of birth nationality. It's the division you'd go to if you don't want to use a gun and still have to do your service (ie, you don't want to use a gun and are still Israeli, essentially). That undermines both the criticism of the IDF as genocidal occupying force and the factual statement that "genocidal occupying force" is our problem here. It could be an entirely accurate claim, or it could be like claiming Jimi Hendrix has responsibility for My Lai because he was in the army at some point. I don't know which it is, because I don't actually see enough information to decide. I don't like the feel of it. I'm not going to call anyone an antisemite about it. I am going to call the guy a twitter spook, because he obviously is, but the unit history weakens the argument somewhat. It definitely feels a lot less like a book reccomendation, and a lot more like the time on campaign a dude made a joke about half the CIA being jewish and the room went awkwardly quiet until someone said "they're actually mormons". prefect posted:I have only heard "spook" used as a slur towards black people. You would have to work real hard to make the case that it's antisemitic. what? it means mi5/intelligence/spies in general. It's widely used in that context. There was a tv show about MI5 superheroes called "spooks", and a film. multijoe posted:He's in military intelligence, calling him a spook is completely justified. It's not some special status reserved for elite extra-secret spies see, again, that's exactly my point. Can you point me at the bit saying he worked military intelligence? because "his unit is military intelligence" is objectively wrong and that's my entire argument. He could've been filing out book acquisition forms for all I know, and that's the part I feel uncomfortable with. Spangly A has issued a correction as of 14:20 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 14:14
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Spangly A posted:have you seen britain? Whether you think the accusation is fair or not, I promise you it will be weaponised. Of course it's going to be weaponize, if you call the head of the mossad a spook the British press will call you an antisemite.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:28
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isn’t spiv a word which people made antisemitic out of whole cloth to smear Mcdonnell or Corbyn at some point
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Jan 20, 2021 14:33
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I mean we have seen a Labour MP murdered one of the more prominent sort of pro left columnist assaulted and the British gov openly mulling if they should ban left alternative press for antisemitism. That's not an environment where you'd want to accuse a leftwinger of antisemitism with nothing more to go on than that most people in that IDF army unit aren't spooks and the guy himself might only have started to work in the psyop sector after he left the IDF.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:42
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genericnick posted:I don't see how you would claim in good faith that calling an IDF guy a spook is anti-Semitic. Totally weird to me. Walker over at Novara demonstrated this deftly (like the idiot he is). He said "what if Corbyn hired a Russian ex-spy" as people where saying he was a Russian asset. So it seems that what people are saying is that Starma is an Israeli asset, which is straight up anti-Semitism. Another way of putting it is: Is the problem that he is an ex-spy or that he is Israeli.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:49
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 Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals
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Jan 20, 2021 14:53
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https://mobile.twitter.com/FreeNorthNow/status/1351889351832203268
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Jan 20, 2021 14:55
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I hope they didn't take their plans for independence from Catalonia like they did their flag
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Jan 20, 2021 14:57
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zegermans posted:I hope they didn't take their plans for independence from Catalonia like they did their flag Oswald's stripes are like a millennium older than the estelada
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Jan 20, 2021 15:02
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zegermans posted:
Fuuuuuccccck Roger, not you! Why are all the best musicians massive gammons?! Someone please tell me at least Robert Plant is a decent person?!
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Jan 20, 2021 15:03
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I mean, you can just look up the sources used from that claim. Here's an article in noted anti-Semitism-concerned paper The Grauniad, describing how unit 8200 works from the viewpoint of disillusioned members of unit 8200. See also the Wikipedia Article describing it as an intelligence corps in some detail and zero mention of logistics/administrative duties. Maybe it's some kind of weird double-false flag and it's actually a logistics division posing as the Israeli SIGINT/NSA, but I have done minutes of research on the matter and am fairly confident that whatever ukmt post you're referencing is a crock of poo poo. Do you have an actual source that claims otherwise and doesn't involve reading ukmt posts? Zulily Zoetrope has issued a correction as of 15:18 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 15:11
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zegermans posted:
so did like no one understand what Brexit actually meant besides telling the French to gently caress off
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Jan 20, 2021 15:12
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spacemang_spliff posted:so did like no one understand what Brexit actually meant besides telling the French to gently caress off Telling the French to gently caress off seemed like a good enough reason at the time
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Jan 20, 2021 15:15
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Not even the fuckknuckles calling for it in the first place understood what it really meant.
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Jan 20, 2021 15:15
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genericnick posted:I mean we have seen a Labour MP murdered one of the more prominent sort of pro left columnist assaulted and the British gov openly mulling if they should ban left alternative press for antisemitism. That's not an environment where you'd want to accuse a leftwinger of antisemitism with nothing more to go on than that most people in that IDF army unit aren't spooks and the guy himself might only have started to work in the psyop sector after he left the IDF. I think "be really loving accurate with your allegations" is a great position to take in the context you describe, for the same reasons I thought "everybody get arrested!" was a stupid idea for a protest. I would like my allies to not be murdered or buried under bad faith litigation. I'm definitely feeling I'm wrong tho, so sorry and thank you for the time. Zulily Zoetrope posted:I mean, you can just look up the sources used from that claim. Here's an article in noted anti-Semitism-concerned paper The Grauniad, describing how unit 8200 works from the viewpoint of disillusioned members of unit 8200. I re-read the post after yours and I clearly took the wrong emphasis, so no it's on me. My bad and thanks, my mi5 paranoia is assuaged.
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Jan 20, 2021 15:23
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Dravs posted:Fuuuuuccccck Roger, not you! Why are all the best musicians massive gammons?! Someone please tell me at least Robert Plant is a decent person?! Pedophile Racist Talented
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Jan 20, 2021 15:25
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Continuity NIP posted:Telling the French to gently caress off seemed like a good enough reason at the time yeah I mean I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic here
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Jan 20, 2021 15:27
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Spangly A posted:I re-read the post after yours and I clearly took the wrong emphasis, so no it's on me. My bad and thanks, my mi5 paranoia is assuaged. Happy to help 
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Jan 20, 2021 15:39
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yeah no poo poo i've been saying this since 2nd ref. why would westminster give the SNP another go? also the SNP almost certainly dont have the guts to do anything about it beyond complain and go on telly. its probably good for them if anything, gives them some cultural issue to bang on about forever
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Jan 20, 2021 15:44
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generally, 'x was IDF' is a deeply unsatisfying reason to be suspicious of someone - all it says is that they generally didn't feel strongly enough about the issue to go to jail as a teen. this guy seems to have gone the extra mile, though. while this unit may indeed have been bad news, it doesn't seem to be the main point, which is that the labour party is going out of its way to hire people known to be massive failures for reasons unknown
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Jan 20, 2021 16:00
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V. Illych L. posted:generally, 'x was IDF' is a deeply unsatisfying reason to be suspicious of someone - all it says is that they generally didn't feel strongly enough about the issue to go to jail as a teen. this guy seems to have gone the extra mile, though. You guys need to hire Robby Mook for your election stuff. You'll love him.
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Jan 20, 2021 16:01
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V. Illych L. posted:generally, 'x was IDF' is a deeply unsatisfying reason to be suspicious of someone - all it says is that they generally didn't feel strongly enough about the issue to go to jail as a teen. this guy seems to have gone the extra mile, though. most people with experience in centrist politics are massive failures you could probably remove centrist from that sentence e: also tbf i dont think going into the posting unit is "going the extra mile" in the IDF lol i have cousins who come from a country with national service and its a whole fuckin thing Communist Thoughts has issued a correction as of 16:40 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 16:37
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i do think the left in the UK should just shut the gently caress up about israel. its like the most obvious trap every time and nobody else in the whole country has any idea what we're on about. in 20 years time we're gonna have another shot at a left wing government and like corbyn one of the first things they're gonna do is go off on one about israel (anyone else remember his weird speech during the hustings saying israel would "rue the day" they had decided to be so awful?) and that time i'm just gonna sigh and wait for defeat Communist Thoughts has issued a correction as of 17:08 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 16:59
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Communist Thoughts posted:i do think the left in the UK should just shut the gently caress up about israel. this is wrongly assuming the fabricated narrative requires any facts to hang off of, which american politics have thoroughly demonstrated it doesnt. they will fabricate the narrative regardless. if anything the left should be more outspoken, direct, and unapologetic about their opposition to israel's occupation and oppression of palestinians. if the left can't make the public case for something so ethically unambiguous as an entire population being disenfranchised, imprisoned, impoverished, and attacked then no amount of strategic retreat and deference to a bad-faith media apparatus is going to help
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Jan 20, 2021 17:22
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Breakfast All Day posted:this is wrongly assuming the fabricated narrative requires any facts to hang off of, which american politics have thoroughly demonstrated it doesnt. they will fabricate the narrative regardless. if anything the left should be more outspoken, direct, and unapologetic about their opposition to israel's occupation and oppression of palestinians. if the left can't make the public case for something so ethically unambiguous as an entire population being disenfranchised, imprisoned, impoverished, and attacked then no amount of strategic retreat and deference to a bad-faith media apparatus is going to help i agree the narrative happens anyway, i strongly disagree the way for the british left to handle it is to double down.
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Jan 20, 2021 17:29
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Communist Thoughts posted:i agree the narrative happens anyway, i strongly disagree the way for the british left to handle it is to double down. There will not be any good time to introduce it to national discourse so you can either hold it as a value you're happy to defend when it comes up or you can betray an oppressed group because of the optics.
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Jan 20, 2021 17:36
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also it doesnt improve you optics bc they will attack you for it anyway and the same people that either parroted the attack bc of bad faith or ignorance will continue to do so, and they'll add another attack narrative distorting one of your other positions as a bonus
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Jan 20, 2021 17:40
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Communist Thoughts posted:i do think the left in the UK should just shut the gently caress up about israel. I'm torn on this. I have personal reasons to be interested in the whole Israel/Palestine thing, but can safely say that most of the people I know only have the most cursory interest, and that's because they know me, and if it weren't for that, they'd have no more interest in Israel/Palestine than in any other conflict thousands of miles away and can't understand why the left go on about it so much. I think a focus on human rights generally would be more useful (though the right are managing to make 'human rights' a dirty word with baggage about not being able to kick out fundamentalist muslim clerics with a hook for a hand because they can't find a cat sitter or whatever).
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Jan 20, 2021 18:04
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I would just say "Israel has committed a large number of documented human rights abuses, much like most other nations in the world, including our own. Everyone should stop doing that... Honestly." But I'm also a weirdo who thinks running for office sounds about as much fun as getting root canals for 6 months so 
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Jan 20, 2021 22:36
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My cat usually begs for cheese when I have pasta and am adding grated cheese to it. Today thanks to Brexit I only had cheddar instead of my usual foreign muck and she was completely uninterested. That's my brexit story for today.
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Jan 20, 2021 23:44
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