January 2021 Current Events: Get Behind Thee, 2020

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > January 2021 Current Events: Get Behind Thee, 2020

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Yes	62	44.93%
No	76	55.07%
Total:	138 votes

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Hyrax Attack!: Jan 13, 2009; We demand to be taken seriously

Best Friends posted:

We're only going to hear about them if they both happen to happen to someone with media connections, and if the link to Robinhood losses can be documented in a way that prevents Robinhood for suing. I'm guessing they already happen a lot.

Imo the Robinhood guys are right up there with the guys who invented selling candy flavored nicotine to children.

There was a good article about it:

quote:

Richard Dobatse, a Navy medic in San Diego, dabbled infrequently in stock trading. But his behavior changed in 2017 when he signed up for Robinhood, a trading app that made buying and selling stocks simple and seemingly free.

Mr. Dobatse, now 32, said he had been charmed by Robinhood�s one-click trading, easy access to complex investment products, and features like falling confetti and emoji-filled phone notifications that made it feel like a game. After funding his account with $15,000 in credit card advances, he began spending more time on the app.

As he repeatedly lost money, Mr. Dobatse took out two $30,000 home equity loans so he could buy and sell more speculative stocks and options, hoping to pay off his debts. His account value shot above $1 million this year � but almost all of that recently disappeared. This week, his balance was $6,956.

quote:

The more often small investors trade stocks, the worse their returns are likely to be, studies have shown. The returns are even worse when they get involved with options, research has found.

This kind of trading, where a few minutes can mean the difference between winning and losing, was particularly hazardous on Robinhood because the firm has experienced an unusual number of technology issues, public records show. Some Robinhood employees, who declined to be identified for fear of retaliation, said the company failed to provide adequate guardrails and technology to support its customers.

Those dangers came into focus last month when Alex Kearns, 20, a college student in Nebraska, killed himself after he logged into the app and saw that his balance had dropped to negative $730,000. The figure was high partly because of some incomplete trades.

�There was no intention to be assigned this much and take this much risk,� Mr. Kearns wrote in his suicide note, which a family member posted on Twitter.

Like Mr. Kearns, Robinhood�s average customer is young and lacks investing know-how. The average age is 31, the company said, and half of its customers had never invested before.

quote:

Robinhood does not force people to trade, of course. But its success at getting them do so has been highlighted internally. In June, the actor Ashton Kutcher, who has invested in Robinhood, attended one of the company�s weekly staff meetings on Zoom and celebrated its success by comparing it to gambling websites, said three people who were on the call.

Mr. Kutcher said in a statement that his comment �was not intended to be a comparison of business models nor the experience Robinhood provides its customers� and that it referred �to the current growth metrics.� He added that he was �absolutely not insinuating that Robinhood was a gambling platform.�

quote:

In 2018, Robinhood released software that accidentally reversed the direction of options trades, giving customers the opposite outcome from what they expected. Last year, it mistakenly allowed people to borrow infinite money to multiply their bets, leading to some enormous gains and losses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/technology/robinhood-risky-trading.html

# ? Jan 22, 2021 21:35

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 06:55

Nick Soapdish: Apr 27, 2008

https://twitter.com/ArmyStrang/status/1352667169214128131?s=20

Come on Maryland Guard guys

# ? Jan 22, 2021 21:41

boop the snoot: Jun 3, 2016

We all sound very �back in my day� about this but goddamn, back in my day....

# ? Jan 22, 2021 21:42

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

I like robinhood. Giving people access to financial markets seems like a good thing to me.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 21:52

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

Grip it and rip it posted:

I like robinhood. Giving people access to financial markets seems like a good thing to me.

Which can be done via any number of actually loving reputable brokerages. You open a TD or Fidelity or Schwab account and ask for options with zero experience they don't let you. Because that poo poo is dangerous as gently caress. Robinhood is irresponsible, unscrupulous and has allowed people to do an insane amount of harm to themselves that they shouldn't have had the opportunity to get in to in the first place were they using an actually decent brokerage.

maffew buildings fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jan 22, 2021

# ? Jan 22, 2021 21:54

UP THE BUM NO BABY: Sep 1, 2011; by Hand Knit

Grip it and rip it posted:

I like robinhood. Giving people access to financial markets seems like a good thing to me.

I'm sure that kid who killed himself over it agrees

# ? Jan 22, 2021 21:58

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

You can demo an AAII account- which has some great information on basic financial and investment terms and concepts- for $1 for a month. And as was pointed out, you can open an account with Fidelity, T. Rowe Price or any of the other major firms quite easily.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:01

Hyrax Attack!: Jan 13, 2009; We demand to be taken seriously

maffew buildings posted:

Which can be done via any number of actually loving reputable brokerages. You open a TD or Fidelity or Schwab account and ask for options with zero experience they don't let you. Because that poo poo is dangerous as gently caress. Robinhood is irresponsible and unscrupulous and done an insane amount of harm to people with zero fiscal literacy that shouldn't have had the opportunity to destroy themselves in the ways they did.

This is true, I'm no financial wizard but no way people should be moving around their life savings without understanding what is going and with a chance of being wiped out. It's like a 8 year old cousin who should not be given a credit card to make Simpsons Tapped Out! purchases. Or how a college freshman shouldn't have a credit limit of a million dollars. If people properly understand the risks then sure go ahead, but an unscrupulous group mixing it with gamification and allowing high risk bets is awful.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:09

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

maffew buildings posted:

Which can be done via any number of actually loving reputable brokerages. You open a TD or Fidelity or Schwab account and ask for options with zero experience they don't let you. Because that poo poo is dangerous as gently caress. Robinhood is irresponsible, unscrupulous and has allowed people to do an insane amount of harm to themselves that they shouldn't have had the opportunity to get in to in the first place were they using an actually decent brokerage.

Yeah those are fair points. I've only ever used it for putting money into pretty safe ETFs so I appreciated how easy it was for that. I haven't spent much time with the app looking at other features so I'm not really aware of what it can do.

UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:

I'm sure that kid who killed himself over it agrees

Lol are you okay?

Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jan 22, 2021

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:10

ASAPI: Apr 20, 2007; I invented the line.

I only know very little about Robinhood, but wasn't their draw that they are stupid cheap?

And while we are on this topic, what is the best "low cost" way to trade?

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:12

Immanentized: Mar 17, 2009

maffew buildings posted:

this is just tulip mania. simplest explanation is usually the correct one, in this case yet again that people are insanely loving stupid (unless they saw this coming and had a plan which is probably a VERY small percentage of folks)

robinhood will day one let you make complex trades that absolutely no beginner should be doing on borrowed money. i'm surprised we haven't seen more robinhood trading related suicides.

One day? This is their entire business model, and they've been aggressively fined and sanctioned for it at least once. Let's also not forget the ENTIRE WEEK where they executed reverse options chains and left people in all sorts of hosed up situations.

That's right, they paid losers, and they debited winners because their kludged together Order Management System had developers in the production environment.

ASAPI posted:

And while we are on this topic, what is the best "low cost" way to trade?

I don't have my Series licenses anymore and I no longer work in FinTech, but there is no real "low cost" trading, you can use a discount brokerage like TD Ameritrade but you'll always have some fee or commission. Additionally, trading is inherently high cost due to the lingering potential that you stand to POSSIBLY lose your entire capital investment.
If you're looking for an investment vehicle, find commission-free ETFs to buy and hold long term (5yr+). I think the market's going to heavily favor Green Energy stuff for the near term, so find a good fund that doesn't include Tesla.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:15

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

ASAPI posted:

I only know very little about Robinhood, but wasn't their draw that they are stupid cheap?

And while we are on this topic, what is the best "low cost" way to trade?

They also have fractional shares which lets you buy $1 of anything.

Grip it and rip it posted:

I like robinhood. Giving people access to financial markets seems like a good thing to me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/ahy7dy/the_legend_of_1r0nyman/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb

Wish I could inline the video.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:16

Hyrax Attack!: Jan 13, 2009; We demand to be taken seriously

never mind

Hyrax Attack! fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 22, 2021

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:16

Riot Carol Danvers: Jul 30, 2004; It's super dumb, but I can't stop myself. This is just kind of how I do things.

Grip it and rip it posted:

Lol are you okay?

Your initial take was bad and wrong and that's the point he's making

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:21

Immanentized: Mar 17, 2009

I mean Robinhood is an inherently predatory business model that extends credit and allows inexperienced and unsophisticated (official term) investors to get in way over their heads really quickly. The idea itself is fine and all, but most companies offer better education services and support built-on to their offerings because they're only kinda evil, and not actively psychotic. I cannot go far enough into why people should be avoiding the platform, but consider the memelordz and Elon Musk superfans that make up the basis of the user base, and it speaks for yourself.

Honestly, if you want to get into investing and learn the basics, Investopedia has a simulator and some how-to guides. TD Ameritrade has a great education system, and PaperMoney, which is another simulator. I'd also advise starting with maybe 5k in investible assets. A decent way to save up for this is to use Acorns for residual investing and small partial-share ownership, and then transfer out to an actual broker.

There's poo poo I can't really get into because I'm bound by NDAs around it, I spent 6 years in FinTech IT Security and IT Audit, and did some advisory work around the firm just this year.

Robinhood is super bad news, you don't want them having access to your tax info, your debit accounts, or your savings.

Immanentized fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jan 22, 2021

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:21

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

Immanentized posted:

I don't have my Series licenses anymore and I no longer work in FinTech, but there is no real "low cost" trading, you can use a discount brokerage like TD Ameritrade but you'll always have some fee or commission. Additionally, trading is inherently high cost due to the lingering potential that you stand to POSSIBLY lose your entire capital investment.
If you're looking for an investment vehicle, find commission-free ETFs to buy and hold long term (5yr+). I think the market's going to heavily favor Green Energy stuff for the near term, so find a good fund that doesn't include Tesla.

Also consider avoiding Plug Power

TD's Think or Swim platform gives you real time market data with 500 in your account, otherwise you're on a 20 minute delay. They also have a market play back feature that allows you to replay a few months back to 48 hours prior which is extremely helpful if you gravitate towards active trading, which should 100% not be done until you know how to position and swing trade and then should only be undertaken in ridiculously small sizes.

maffew buildings fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 22, 2021

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:21

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:

I'm sure that kid who killed himself over it agrees

That kid who killed himself over it wasn't even actually in the red, he had done a complicated options trade that offset itself and their poo poo app displayed it wrong.

The infinite money cheat was some glorious stupidity though, I can't believe robinhood didn't get shut down by their upstream providers and counterparties for having such obviously hosed internal risk controls.

must see tv right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKXrVriacUM

shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jan 22, 2021

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:21

SquirrelyPSU: May 27, 2003

E: nm

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:25

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

Immanentized posted:

Robinhood is super bad news, you don't want them having access to your tax info, your debit accounts, or your savings.

I actually hadn't heard about half the stuff in this thread. Maybe I will find a new platform. I just liked how streamlined it was for what I use it for.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:35

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

ASAPI posted:

I only know very little about Robinhood, but wasn't their draw that they are stupid cheap?

And while we are on this topic, what is the best "low cost" way to trade?

I recently read a book on modern portfolio theory applied to individual investors, opened an account with Schwab, and built a well diversified portfolio with $0 stock and ETF transaction fees over the course of a week of research and money-moving.
There are definitely better options that are available to even finance morons like myself than Zynga Trading.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:36

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Yeah Robinhood sucks poo poo and it should be shut down for any number of the above reasons.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:37

maffew buildings: Apr 29, 2009; too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned

If you're going to use it on your phone TD Ameritrade isn't bad, be it their normal interface or Think or Swim. Unless you're going to go hard there's nothing they or Fidelity or Schwab can't do for you.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:38

Broken Machine: Oct 22, 2010

maffew buildings posted:

Which can be done via any number of actually loving reputable brokerages. You open a TD or Fidelity or Schwab account and ask for options with zero experience they don't let you. Because that poo poo is dangerous as gently caress. Robinhood is irresponsible, unscrupulous and has allowed people to do an insane amount of harm to themselves that they shouldn't have had the opportunity to get in to in the first place were they using an actually decent brokerage.

I'd avoid Fidelity in particular; they had some votes on divesting from PetroChina and recommended their shareholders vote it down, mostly because they made more money on it that way.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fidelity-genocide/fidelity-funds-block-genocide-linked-proposal-idUKN1534886020090715

I used to volunteer with a refugee from the Sudan and he was really nice. I'm sure a lot of other financial firms are the same but anyways.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:39

Untagged: Mar 29, 2004; Hey, does your planet have wiper fluid yet or you gonna freak out and start worshiping us?

Richard Bong posted:

How is their insurance and stuff?

They are not a "one stop shop" like USAA is. They do the thing that most credit unions do and have a discounted member rate program through a certain insurance provider ie Geico or whatever. USAA is a full financial services company, so they have the ability to offer some services that a credit union or regular bank usually doesn't.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:47

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Vanityfair Article about Chris Miller and how Trump threw him and the DOD under the bus

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/202...ial-type=earned

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:49

A Bad Poster: Sep 25, 2006; Seriously, shut the fuck up.

Gambling should only be done for fun, not as a method of supporting your life, or a global economy.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 23:22

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Richard Bong posted:

How is their insurance and stuff?

I consider my NFCU membership the single most valuable thing my parents ever did for/gave me, even ahead of my life, because I honestly never asked for that and it's led to some terrible inconveniences and shitposting.

Cannot say the same thing about my USAA auto insurance. When some guy rear-ended me in his Tahoe XL and totaled my last car in 2016, USAA took it on themselves to effectively STEAL MY CAR (it still had some personal possessions in it, but I'd thankfully taken everything of value out when I dropped it off) from the body shop after totaling it (they did not get approval from me before doing this, nor did they have the registration signed over), not even taking the plates off of it before shipping it down to Fredericksburg to a salvage auction. We had them send the plates back to us FedEx Overnight. They also started my rental car clock the moment the claim was filed and *neglected to tell me that*, necessitating my having to call and yell at them to override it because they rather tersely told me my rental allowance was ending and it was going to start coming out of my own pocket. They also at one point were making it sound like MY insurance was going to be dinged for the guy hitting *me*. We were both on USAA. So yeah, not impressed with their auto insurance.

I got ~$3900 as a settlement for the car. They ended up selling the husk at auction for like $300.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jan 23, 2021

# ? Jan 22, 2021 23:30

facialimpediment: Feb 11, 2005; as the world turns

K they figured out the impeachment trial timing on a Schumer-McConnell deal (everyone seems to win tbqh):

https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/1352756607441104898?s=19

# ? Jan 23, 2021 00:28

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

I regret to inform you that the Bernie meme is now dead thanks to one of Bezos� hirelings

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1352755760669851648?s=20

# ? Jan 23, 2021 00:46

UP THE BUM NO BABY: Sep 1, 2011; by Hand Knit

pantslesswithwolves posted:

I regret to inform you that the Bernie meme is now dead thanks to one of Bezos’ hirelings

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1352755760669851648?s=20

Lol they took it down

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:02

CBJSprague24: Dec 5, 2010; another game at nationwide arena. everybody keeps asking me if they can fuck the cannon. buddy, they don't even let me fuck it

Godholio posted:

This is why I'm fine with slow-rolling the trial.

drat...you might be onto something...

I might eventually agree with LtCol but, right now, I don't want Trump setting foot on White House property again (unless it's for some sort of public shaming where he's put in stocks and people can pay $5 to hurl heavy objects at him or something).

If meaning Donald Trump can never be POTUS again means the GOP comes out slightly ahead somehow, I'm for it.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:04

As Nero Danced: Sep 3, 2009; Alright, let's do this

CBJSprague24 posted:

I might eventually agree with LtCol but, right now, I don't want Trump setting foot on White House property again (unless it's for some sort of public shaming where he's put in stocks and people can pay $5 to hurl heavy objects at him or something).

If meaning Donald Trump can never be POTUS again means the GOP comes out slightly ahead somehow, I'm for it.

Sounds like a way to not only balance the deficit but turn the national debt into a surplus instead.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:17

Defenestrategy: Oct 24, 2010

CBJSprague24 posted:

unless it's for some sort of public shaming where he's put in stocks and people can pay $5 to hurl heavy objects at him or something

I'm not sure how much money I'd pay the US gov to spank that nerd with moon rocks, but It's certainly gonna be more than I earn in a week.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:20

TheWeedNumber: Apr 20, 2020; by sebmojo

Defenestrategy posted:

I'm not sure how much money I'd pay the US gov to spank that nerd with moon rocks, but It's certainly gonna be more than I earn in a week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOy6hqzfsAs

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:27

facialimpediment: Feb 11, 2005; as the world turns

Biden has another person that he needs to put on administrative leave / fire immediately. Also another story for the impeachment trial.

https://twitter.com/EricLiptonNYT/status/1352781580197093378

Recap from another tweet: Don't know what to say. I guess there was, I dunno, an almost-coup at DOJ so that this man no one really knew outside of the department could send a letter to Georgia politicians to stop the steal

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:54

BUG JUG: Feb 17, 2005

facialimpediment posted:

Biden has another person that he needs to put on administrative leave / fire immediately. Also another story for the impeachment trial.

https://twitter.com/EricLiptonNYT/status/1352781580197093378

Recap from another tweet: Don't know what to say. I guess there was, I dunno, an almost-coup at DOJ so that this man no one really knew outside of the department could send a letter to Georgia politicians to stop the steal

Lol. Ok so he sends GA a letter telling them to stop and they reply with gently caress off states rights bitch and its just another lawsuit trump loses 7-2.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:57

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Well yeah, but then states' rights have been dead a looooooong time

# ? Jan 23, 2021 02:19

Hot Karl Marx: Mar 16, 2009; Politburo regulations about social distancing require to downgrade your Karlmarxing to cold, and sorry about the dnc primaries, please enjoy!