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the whole AS thing seems kind of overblown to me as an outsider. it's probably not really what cost labour the 2019 elections unless you think london and environs are hotbeds of anti-semitism but the post-industrial heartlands in the North are just thoroughly horrified by the jew-hater corbyn. nor is it really why corbyn and the left were purged. the labour right purged them because they are the labour right and disagree with their politics, and AS was just an excuse. at best a few wobbly PMC types and media figures were persuaded that the anti-corbyn sentiment was horror at his antisemitism rather than horror at his policies, but the actual mechanics of corbynism's failure-- first, his failure to win in 2019, and then the anti-left purges of 2020-- had little to nothing to do with anti-semitism. so why not just be pro-palestine when asked? my understanding is that a message of international solidarity fell flat with labour voters in the North because they saw it as leaving them behind to help Johnny Foreigner, but I don't think they are specifically more anti-palestine than anywhere else.
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Jan 22, 2021 15:23
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'Antisemitic' also became code for 'Arab lover' which is probably one of the reasons it got so much traction with the aging white 'working class' lot too
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Jan 22, 2021 15:36
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one thing about AS is that the labour right clearly exploited a mechanism they found lying around are now increasingly jittery when they notice that they can't turn off the AS smear machine when it is used on them as well
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Jan 22, 2021 15:37
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multijoe posted:'Antisemitic' also became code for 'Arab lover' which is probably one of the reasons it got so much traction with the aging white 'working class' lot too that’s a good point, actually. I read a good postmortem which basically said that corbyn’s obvious central value is solidarity and universalism, and there’s a significant fraction of the labour base in the north that are just little Englanders driven into a rage at the idea that everything in the world does not belong to Britannia
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Jan 22, 2021 15:41
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Corbyn had no chance of winning because no one could ever trust him to bring the pain.
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Jan 22, 2021 16:07
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Corbyn had no chance of winning because no one could ever trust him to bring the pain. Yes. The people wanted brexit. no matter the cost. Now they have brexit taking bets on how long before they find another common enemy for their problems. (it will be whoever the left backs)
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Jan 22, 2021 16:22
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crepeface posted:but we're only complicit and tacitly supporting apartheid outside our borders! it’s only outside because the empire is gone
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Jan 22, 2021 16:37
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Cyril Sneeer posted:Yes. The people wanted brexit. no matter the cost. £10 on bringing back hanging
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Jan 22, 2021 17:16
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I think Ireland will be more owned by Brexit than England will be.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:16
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Nonsense posted:I think Ireland will be more owned by Brexit than England will be. by the economic cost of unification? maybe. I still think the rest of the EU might help a lot just as a gently caress you to England.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:19
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HORSE-SLAUGHTERER posted:£10 on bringing back hanging Ah the next referendum that the tories promise to hold, intending to lose to kier
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Jan 22, 2021 17:38
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Nonsense posted:I think Ireland will be more owned by Brexit than England will be. If by 'owned' you mean we will own more of our island, then yes
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Jan 22, 2021 18:13
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Jan 22, 2021 18:16
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wrong thread but lol this is on topic now how did left criticism of israel go in the 60s and 70s when they were in their long string of left-leaning governments? was there more dissent internationally or did the left not give a poo poo about kibbutzim in the wake of the naqba
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Jan 22, 2021 19:11
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I wouldn't know first hand but I read a fair few leftists at the time were quite keen on kibbutzes. Though obviously not the ones who supported Algerian independence and the like.
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Jan 22, 2021 19:21
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Dravs posted:I dunno, it's almost like Germany feels it needs to be suuupppeeer careful around how people think they perceive Jewish people. How weird?? Also, Palestinians lost a lot of what sympathy they may have had here after Munich and Mogadishu.
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Jan 22, 2021 19:38
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eating healthier to own the EU
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Jan 22, 2021 20:37
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Brexit was always a nefarious vegan agenda.
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Jan 22, 2021 20:44
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barbecue at the folks posted:Meanwhile, it keeps happening: Hillary 2024 has issued a correction as of 00:23 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 00:13
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Communist Thoughts posted:Ah the next referendum that the tories promise to hold, intending to lose to kier u know its gonna happen
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Jan 23, 2021 00:56
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namesake posted:I am a principled leftist who believes in standing against all kinds of oppression except those kinds which are a bit far away or I don't quite have all the tools I would need to help. Better not show verbal solidarity with those kinds. Do you want to win so you can help those people? Does speaking out and showing "verbal solidarity" materially impact their struggle? Does it materially impact yours? I don't know the context but if the answer to the first is no and the second is "yes, but in a negative way" then you really shouldn't make verbal solidarity one of your core planks, IMHO.
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Jan 23, 2021 01:32
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UnknownTarget posted:Do you want to win so you can help those people? Does speaking out and showing "verbal solidarity" materially impact their struggle? Does it materially impact yours? It's not a core plank but 'will you show support for an oppressed group even if there's no direct connection to votes in it for you' is a demonstration of actually holding principles and is a core means of saying to your base who you are also directly appealing to 'hey, I'm not just saying this stuff because there's something in it for me, these are all things I believe and will actively work towards'. It builds a narrative of integrity for the people and party, who will say and do the unpopular things because they really think it's the right thing to do no matter how hard it is. it also builds trust in your audience to go to bat for you in social environments when they don't know the parties exact policy on X but they know that they'll 'do the right thing' and can properly argue that it flows from core party principles rather than just chasing votes. A constantly changing or completely subjective platform based around 'nice things' doesn't build any of that and doesn't motivate anyone but the most fickle and superficial voters to consider voting.
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Jan 23, 2021 01:52
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The secret is having a set of values and then acting consistently according to those values without trying to mindgame anyone. Anything else means just giving the right-wing a free pass.
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Jan 23, 2021 01:53
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420 free Palestine wasn't exactly the flagship policy of the 2017 or 2019 labour campaigns even if you look at the manifesto its buried in among a bunch of other international things like the Yemeni/rohingya genocides, so I think any perceived over emphasis is possibly because it ties into the anti semitism poo poo obviously the correct answer is to pretend these places don't exist in case you frighten the delicate middle englanders who definitely would have voted for the communist, racist, antisemitic pacifist terrorists in the labour party if they just hadn't been so spooked by the implication that human rights also apply to foreigners
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Jan 23, 2021 03:02
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Zopotantor posted:Also, Palestinians lost a lot of what sympathy they may have had here after Mogadishu. lol wut? I think you mean Uganda. PawParole has issued a correction as of 03:07 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 03:03
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https://twitter.com/oocmma/status/1352621184169472008?s=20 what can't brexit do!? truly the most powerful of phenomenons
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Jan 23, 2021 03:41
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gently caress the bbc radio service for putting chuds on all week long whining about being silenced
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Jan 23, 2021 06:28
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Nonsense posted:gently caress the bbc radio service for putting chuds on all week long whining about being silenced silence of the hams
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Jan 23, 2021 07:18
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Nonsense posted:gently caress the bbc radio service for putting chuds on all week long whining about being silenced
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Jan 23, 2021 09:24
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PawParole posted:lol wut? I think you mean Uganda. Lufthansa Flight 181 In Entebbe some Germans were on the other side.
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Jan 23, 2021 13:20
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crispix posted:i mean i can think of a reason why Germans would think differently about it it's because israel is trying create an ethnically pure right wing state OP
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Jan 23, 2021 13:47
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How come weed legalisation hadn't made much ground over here?
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Jan 23, 2021 18:07
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Kaveman posted:How come weed legalisation hadn't made much ground over here? the UK is super conservative and drugs are for criminals
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Jan 23, 2021 18:18
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Kaveman posted:How come weed legalisation hadn't made much ground over here? The only voting block that matters is angry pensioners who own their homes and hate their kids.
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Jan 23, 2021 18:20
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Kaveman posted:How come weed legalisation hadn't made much ground over here? Because baby steps towards that goal (making it Class C) were reversed in the Brown years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_classification_in_the_United_Kingdom Ed Balls listed the Class C classification as a mistake alongside The Iraq War! The most generous reading is that it's all electoral pandering, a sop to the tabloids.
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Jan 23, 2021 19:47
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https://twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/1053287512033103873?s=20 https://twitter.com/WritesBright/status/1352597757857566722?s=20 June is not sure who caused all her problems but they better fix them quickly
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Jan 23, 2021 22:32
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I have no fish and I must bream
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Jan 23, 2021 22:43
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I wonder if this is the year these guys remember Thatcher was actually pro-single market and retroactively become fierce Tory remainers carrying on her legacy after spending the last four years doing everything they can to burn it down
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Jan 23, 2021 22:48
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https://twitter.com/Dorianlynskey/status/1352656377014005761?s=20
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Jan 23, 2021 22:51
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this is a very confusing time says man as obvious outcome occurs
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Jan 23, 2021 23:01
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