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also i'm pretty sure, but i might be wrong, that the objectively worsening material conditions for people is increasing class consciousness, which probably has a bigger effect on its development than the presence or lack of "idpol," which always sounded like one of those thought-terminating orwellian phrases to me where a bunch of complex social movements are compressed into a single phrase that is intended to convey an entirely negative meaning. people speaking out about their oppression? radlib idpol! as if the class struggle is the only true jihad and everyone else has to shut their mouths. quote:According to the materialist conception of history, the ultimately determining element in history is the production and reproduction of real life. Other than this neither Marx nor I have ever asserted. Hence if somebody twists this into saying that the economic element is the only determining one, he transforms that proposition into a meaningless, abstract, senseless phrase. The economic situation is the basis, but the various elements of the superstructure — political forms of the class struggle and its results, to wit: constitutions established by the victorious class after a successful battle, etc., juridical forms, and even the reflexes of all these actual struggles in the brains of the participants, political, juristic, philosophical theories, religious views and their further development into systems of dogmas — also exercise their influence upon the course of the historical struggles and in many cases preponderate in determining their form. There is an interaction of all these elements in which, amid all the endless host of accidents (that is, of things and events whose inner interconnection is so remote or so impossible of proof that we can regard it as non-existent, as negligible), the economic movement finally asserts itself as necessary. Otherwise the application of the theory to any period of history would be easier than the solution of a simple equation of the first degree.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 00:20 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:37 |
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Terror Sweat posted:Idpol has been a massive success in respect to destroying class consciousness
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 01:39 |
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it actually bothers me that people feel this way. and the combination of anger and arrogance towards people and their social movements. it's very reactionary, i feel. does BLM destroy class consciousness? it's a social movement with its own momentum. you have to either relate to it or not. i dunno what you want people to do
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 06:52 |
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What class consciousness was there to destroy lol Was there a ML vanguard party that was just about to institute a dictatorship of the proletariat before BLM-based swoopers destroyed them? Was CHAZ going to turn into the Paris Commune?
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 07:44 |
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:it actually bothers me that people feel this way. and the combination of anger and arrogance towards people and their social movements. it's very reactionary, i feel. does BLM destroy class consciousness? it's a social movement with its own momentum. you have to either relate to it or not. i dunno what you want people to do It might be true that it is a distraction from the real objective, but it is not a battle of our choosing and it is one we need to win to achieve the real objective. I think the thing people are reacting to here is false victories, like electing a token representative rather than someone who will actually improve conditions for the masses. Basically, idpol can mean whatever you want it to mean, from any kind of politics that conceive of the world through identities to the tokenism of corporations, the political establishment, and liberals in general. The latter is probably what most people here mean.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 07:46 |
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SchnorkIes posted:Are the people in actual grinding poverty or are they just unwilling to pay taxes? I know a lot of "poor people" making hundreds of thousands a year in cash livestock etc business
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 08:15 |
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T. Bombastus posted:"Is West Virginia actually one of the poorest states in the nation, or are its millions of citizens conspiring to do tax fraud to make it seem poor?" is not really a reasonable question. It sucks that you know a poor person with a boat I guess but that's a statistical anomaly. Poor people aren't really poor they just don't want to _________________________________________
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 08:25 |
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It might be true that it is a distraction from the real objective, but it is not a battle of our choosing and it is one we need to win to achieve the real objective. I think the thing people are reacting to here is false victories, like electing a token representative rather than someone who will actually improve conditions for the masses.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 08:43 |
As someone who has lived most of their life in WV, anyone doing this whole "well are they really poor?" poo poo can go gently caress themselves.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 08:46 |
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https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/ch11.htm
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 08:59 |
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SchnorkIes posted:Are the people in actual grinding poverty or are they just unwilling to pay taxes? I know a lot of "poor people" making hundreds of thousands a year in cash livestock etc business SchnorkIes posted:Yeah, but on paper, and on the kind of income figures cited, they're poor, but they're moving paper bags full of cash for all manner of scheme SchnorkIes posted:Rural white chuds who play poor but are running cash businesses where the czar is far away is a very different demographic, in that it actually exists what the gently caress is this
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 09:06 |
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I think it's that idpol destroying class consciousness I've heard so much about
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 09:29 |
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:also i'm pretty sure, but i might be wrong, that the objectively worsening material conditions for people is increasing class consciousness, which probably has a bigger effect on its development than the presence or lack of "idpol," which always sounded like one of those thought-terminating orwellian phrases to me where a bunch of complex social movements are compressed into a single phrase that is intended to convey an entirely negative meaning. people speaking out about their oppression? radlib idpol! liberal idpol is all about coopting legitimate struggles for liberation and transforming them into shields for the rich and powerful, hth
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 09:40 |
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:what the gently caress is this People like that exist, they usually can't help but brag about it either. The ones who get caught tend to have been pretty open about it in the community for years. They are a vocal minority. I once worked with a guy who had been doing in for forty years and during our breaks he'd ramble on about the various ways he'd "kept the government from his money" and the ways he used to duck paying royalties on furs and how he'd shadow invest the proceeds from grow-ops, . Scruffy fellow with an unkempt beard and a filthy older truck, but he had cash stashed all over the place in little cubbies in his cabin, and no shortage of "material investments" like nice older cars. He did trapping, raised beef, forestry, wrenching, making high end wooden furniture, scrap metal. Pretty much anything that would bring in cash that he could stash away and find ways to write-off expenses. His ultimate plan for the money was to leave it to his biological son tax free, who hadn't spoken to him in like 15 years.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 09:47 |
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The Oldest Man posted:I think it's that idpol destroying class consciousness I've heard so much about i always wondered what the kind of “ironic” style of cspam humor was all about; i think it’s the idpol leaking in to the class consciousness, what jungian theory considered to be the cause of schizophrenic and schizotypal syptoms.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 09:52 |
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kupachek posted:People like that exist, they usually can't help but brag about it either. The ones who get caught tend to have been pretty open about it in the community for years. sounds exactly like welfare queens. sure they exist somewhere and they’re much more noticeable than people who use social services in times of need, but they’re also a tiny tiny minority and people who bring them up tend to have an agenda or personal ax to grind
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 10:48 |
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theflyingexecutive posted:sounds exactly like welfare queens. sure they exist somewhere and they’re much more noticeable than people who use social services in times of need, but they’re also a tiny tiny minority and people who bring them up tend to have an agenda or personal ax to grind When I hear welfare queen, my mind goes straight to armed forces personnel first, the type who will proudly wear that term like a badge of honor. Personally, I've met the cash hoarding tax dodger types, and people who get benefits and blow it on booze who then panhandle for rent at the end of the month (and otherwise live poor as poo poo), but not the 'welfare queens' who soak up benefits and live high on the hog.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 11:13 |
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https://twitter.com/TheOvalPawffice/status/1360383216943824898?s=20 lol
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 11:23 |
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Jesus Christ it’s going to be a long loving year
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 11:30 |
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kupachek posted:When I hear welfare queen, my mind goes straight to armed forces personnel first, the type who will proudly wear that term like a badge of honor. If i remember right, the original "welfare queen" (coined by Reagan, I believe) was a lady who was stealing SS benefits from like 6 old people, some of whom were dead and she might have killed. So yeah, technically real, but rare and not endemic of some mass movement. FauxSchnork is either generalizing from a couple dudes he knows, or just trying to stir poo poo.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 15:35 |
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let’s see how fully embedded ducklo is doing https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/12/media/tj-ducklo-white-house-suspended/index.html
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 15:39 |
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theflyingexecutive posted:sounds exactly like welfare queens. sure they exist somewhere and they’re much more noticeable than people who use social services in times of need, but they’re also a tiny tiny minority and people who bring them up tend to have an agenda or personal ax to grind it reminds me of that long tweet thread from a while back about how basically every "farmer" is committing enormous insurance fraud all the time to the point that the agriculture industry in some places is basically fraudulent from top to bottom and yet, the people doing that are still a minority of people actually involved in the agriculture industry, because for every one bougie farmowner committing fraud, there are dozens or hundreds of impoverished undocumented agricultural labourers suffering through the actual work
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 15:43 |
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One More Fat Nerd posted:If i remember right, the original "welfare queen" (coined by Reagan, I believe) was a lady who was stealing SS benefits from like 6 old people, some of whom were dead and she might have killed. So yeah, technically real, but rare and not endemic of some mass movement. I googled it and he frequently told a story about a “Chicago welfare queen” with “eighty names, thirty addresses, and twelve Social Security cards who is collecting veteran’s benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. She’s got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income is over $150,000.” Another example Reagan loved to use was the "strapping young buck ahead of you in line, using food stamps to buy T-bone steaks while you're buying hamburger" but he softened that to "some young fellow ahead of you" when he was delivering stump speeches in the northern states.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:05 |
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I googled it and he frequently told a story about a “Chicago welfare queen” with “eighty names, thirty addresses, and twelve Social Security cards who is collecting veteran’s benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. She’s got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income is over $150,000.” an early example of the right's very common tactic of breaking a complex issue down into a simplistic binary opposition and then making the other side sound completely unhinged. "Oh, you support welfare for the poor? Then you must support this random person I made up who commits fraud to claim eighty people's worth of welfare and four people's veteran benefits. And if you don't support the behaviour of that imaginary fraudster, then you must agree with me that we should abolish the state, because those are the only two alternatives."
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:16 |
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vyelkin posted:it reminds me of that long tweet thread from a while back about how basically every "farmer" is committing enormous insurance fraud all the time to the point that the agriculture industry in some places is basically fraudulent from top to bottom hit me with that thread please
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:24 |
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Another example Reagan loved to use was the "strapping young buck ahead of you in line, using food stamps to buy T-bone steaks while you're buying hamburger" but he softened that to "some young fellow ahead of you" when he was delivering stump speeches in the northern states. Ah yes, so relatable. Who hasn't experienced this situation!
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:25 |
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Kitfox88 posted:hit me with that thread please https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/1323297129830469638 and https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/1278862722512424963
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:31 |
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that last one is dire
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:40 |
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I like how the Biden voter tweets are virtually indistinguishable from the Trump voter tweets around 2017.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:43 |
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a Loving Dog posted:that last one is dire clicked through and they had a DonorsChoose fundraiser, luckily it was fully funded but holy poo poo this is real fuckin dire quote:My students come from a Title 1 school where access to the basic supplies are scarce at home and school. 100% of our student population receive free lunch. My 3rd grade scholars are highly spirited and eager to show what they know. As a teacher, I want to ensure that my students reach their full potential as they develop and grow academically. I want to create an environment where essential supplies need to become successful are readily available to them
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:46 |
What is even going on in that last tweet
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:53 |
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Eggplant Squire posted:What is even going on in that last tweet open er up the schools
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:55 |
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vyelkin posted:an early example of the right's very common tactic of breaking a complex issue down into a simplistic binary opposition and then making the other side sound completely unhinged. "Oh, you support welfare for the poor? Then you must support this random person I made up who commits fraud to claim eighty people's worth of welfare and four people's veteran benefits. And if you don't support the behaviour of that imaginary fraudster, then you must agree with me that we should abolish the state, because those are the only two alternatives." Similarly, they love coming up with emotionally loaded catchphrases to disparage and belittle their opponents' actions even if (actually, especially if) they've been doing the exact same thing. A recent example has been Trump and his cronies complaining nonstop about "cancel culture" even though he has constantly been demanding that people like Colin Kaepernick be fired for years and years and years.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 16:56 |
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Eggplant Squire posted:What is even going on in that last tweet Libs wanna open up schools and are at the phase where they hate teachers as much as the chuds
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 17:28 |
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https://twitter.com/nikaykay_/status/1360359299680206857?s=20 *republicans sweep 2024 with a constitutional convention* oopsie! https://twitter.com/uberpreeya/status/1360257118184624128?s=20 lmao. never worked a real job in their life.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 17:33 |
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Taintrunner posted:
What you have to understand is that Biden & co. came of age in 1950, where money was worth about an order of magnitude more due to inflation. They think that they're giving people 14k, and that would be enough to tide everyone over for a few months. Their pay masters probably know better but have no interest in correcting the issue for obvious reasons.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 17:40 |
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Where's my loving money Obiden Bama?
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 17:44 |
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One More Fat Nerd posted:FauxSchnork is either generalizing from a couple dudes he knows, or just trying to stir poo poo. Mostly just trying to justify policies that don't help the people I hate, white lumpens aren't in the working class lol
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 17:45 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:37 |
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:I like how the Biden voter tweets are virtually indistinguishable from the Trump voter tweets around 2017. Theres a specific type of Trump voter squeal that I havent seen yet from Biden voters, the open "he's hurting the wrong people!" complaint. I may have just missed it though.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 17:46 |