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Thom12255 posted:Trump infamously used a personal cellphone for business so it is likely there is no transcript. Actually won't be surprised if that makes a transcript more likely.
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Feb 13, 2021 16:57
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Having a former President sit before Congress and plead the fifth dozens of times for basic questions would be quite the sight for the world.
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Feb 13, 2021 16:57
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eke out posted:yes, you would be wrong if you thought it only applies to criminal trials Ok then. I admit to being a big dumb idiot.
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Feb 13, 2021 16:57
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Deteriorata posted:he can be compelled to testify, he just can't be compelled to answer any particular question. 5th Amendment right has to be invoked on a question by question basis. Not everything he could testify to would necessarily be self-incriminating. yes, and this is such a huge pain in the rear end and waste of time that it's widely understood there is no point doing this, especially considering he would refuse and we'd spend weeks and then months in contempt proceedings
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Feb 13, 2021 16:58
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https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1360618433801502721 https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1360619582009008131
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Feb 13, 2021 16:58
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Getting Trump in will be a real perjury trap. And I mean "pejury trap" the way republicans do: having a pathological liar answer basic things under oath that there would be no reason to lie about. I recognize that they might not call Trump, but Trump's own defense team has made a very strong case that Trump needs to be deposed so I think they'll still do it.
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Feb 13, 2021 16:59
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So wait, am I being mad here... If the Republicans would have held this while Trump was still in power like they could have... Wouldn't they have had the majority in the senate to win the vote they just lost? Asking because I like schadenfreude and seeing things backfire on bad people.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:00
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Thom12255 posted:Trump infamously used a personal cellphone for business so it is likely there is no transcript.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:00
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https://twitter.com/Santucci/status/1360619527525052419
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Feb 13, 2021 17:00
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eke out posted:yes, and this is such a huge pain in the rear end and waste of time that it's widely understood there is no point doing this, especially considering he would refuse and we'd spend weeks and then months in contempt proceedings They already brought up the negative inference rule, so Trump's refusal to answer any questions could be useful to them. Calling him knowing it would be a shitshow of him trying to dodge testifying would be the whole point of it.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:00
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Lol, and also, lmao
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Feb 13, 2021 17:01
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https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1360619448697294862
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Feb 13, 2021 17:01
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Random Stranger posted:Getting Trump in will be a real perjury trap. And I mean "pejury trap" the way republicans do: having a pathological liar answer basic things under oath that there would be no reason to lie about. *in a fake mustache* "John Barron"
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Feb 13, 2021 17:01
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Thom12255 posted:Having a former President sit before Congress and plead the fifth dozens of times for basic questions would be quite the sight for the world. Honestly? Trump is not smart enough to shutup when he needs to. And he thinks he knows more than his lawyers. He will totally perjure himself. He's done this again and again, and when cameras are on him, he talks even more.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:01
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all of the whining is definitely proof it was the right choice lol Deteriorata posted:They already brought up the negative inference rule, so Trump's refusal to answer any questions could be useful to them. it's not actually useful because it shuts down the senate for months and trump refusing to testify does not change a single republican's vote you can pretend that the negative inference thing matters, like Raskin has tried to, but it simply does not because no trumpist republican will ever do it and all democrats are already with you
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Feb 13, 2021 17:02
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eke out posted:yes, and this is such a huge pain in the rear end and waste of time that it's widely understood there is no point doing this, especially considering he would refuse and we'd spend weeks and then months in contempt proceedings I can't imagine Trump would keep to the script for hours of questioning. He would crack at some point.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:02
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True, but these motherfuckers could be stunned and stupefied by their own fuckin' shadow.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:02
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probably meant to say 9/11, not 911
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Feb 13, 2021 17:02
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https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1360620326443495428
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Feb 13, 2021 17:03
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CyberPingu posted:I can't imagine Trump would keep to the script for hours of questioning. He would crack at some point. there would never be hours of questioning
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Feb 13, 2021 17:03
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eke out posted:it's not actually useful because it shuts down the senate for months and trump refusing to testify does not change a single republican's vote Where are you getting this 'shut down the Senate' from? In 1999, the trial was suspended while managers interviewed people, and the Senate went back to normal business in the meantime until the managers were ready to come back and present the new evidence from the witnesses. The longer this drags out, the more damaging to the Senators up for election in 2022.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:04
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https://twitter.com/Santucci/status/1360620535101739010
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Feb 13, 2021 17:04
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Thom12255 posted:Where are you getting this 'shut down the Senate' from? In 1999, the trial was suspended while managers interviewed people, and the Senate went back to normal business in the meantime until the managers were ready to come back and present the new evidence from the witnesses. unanimous consent is required for the senate to return to regular business in the meantime in Clinton the depositions took a week. what you are responding to is me saying that some attempt to hold trump in contempt would take months i fully expect McConnell to deny unanimous consent for the days that whatever witnesses we do get takes, that's the cost of doing what we want here, and i'm fine with it
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Feb 13, 2021 17:06
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eke out posted:it's not actually useful because it shuts down the senate for months and trump refusing to testify does not change a single republican's voteou It's not going to shut down the senate for even a day; they're doing the regular business during the morning and impeachment in the afternoon during the trial and they can continue with regular business while witnesses are being worked. Second, Trump doesn't have a friendly senate or a DoJ that he controls to shield him. They'll give him some leeway (like two weeks) and then send over marshals to make him testify.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:06
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eke out posted:all of the whining is definitely proof it was the right choice lol They've already said they'd suspend the trial, do depositions by Zoom, and reconvene when they were ready. Senate business would proceed as normal in the meantime. It's what they did with Clinton - paused the trial for evidence gathering. So calling Trump would be exclusively for the spectacle of it with no other downside. The jury here is posterity, not the Republican party. They may decide it's not worth it, but shutting down the Senate in the meantime is not a problem.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:07
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eke out posted:a meaningless answer, you can do whatever you want But this whole thing has been operating under the assumption that conviction wasn't going to happen and was more about pressing the case politically. Having Trump repeatedly take the fifth absolutely advances that goal.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:07
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Random Stranger posted:It's not going to shut down the senate for even a day; they're doing the regular business during the morning and impeachment in the afternoon during the trial and they can continue with regular business while witnesses are being worked. Deteriorata posted:They've already said they'd suspend the trial, do depositions by Zoom, and reconvene when they were ready. Senate business would proceed as normal in the meantime. It's what they did with Clinton - paused the trial for evidence gathering. google unanimous consent and ask yourself whether Mitch and every member of his caucus is suddenly going to be amenable to allowing other business to continue
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Feb 13, 2021 17:08
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Now these lawyers will have to do a poor job for an even longer time without pay. It's beautiful.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:09
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Sinema has been talking to a huddle of Republicans next to Mitch for like 20 minutes now.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:10
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Good. They could've left at any time or refused to be part of this poo poo show, and then took a massive dump on the senate floor and called it a defense. Let them stew in it.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:10
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eke out posted:google unanimous consent They. Don't. Need. It. Pretend for a moment that the rules that have already been set out made them use unanimous consent to continue senate business. They don't, but let's pretend. A majority vote changes that rule.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:10
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eke out posted:google unanimous consent and ask yourself whether Mitch and every member of his caucus is suddenly going to be amenable to allowing other business to continue Are they discussing pay rises anytime soon?
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Feb 13, 2021 17:10
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eke out posted:google unanimous consent and ask yourself whether Mitch and every member of his caucus is suddenly going to be amenable to allowing other business to continue If that's how it is then I could see Dem's calling for Trump, letting him throw a fit and then moving on with that on the record. The Senate is in recess next week anyway so if they also just take a week to get their own dispositions then it isn't a big deal to do this.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:11
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"Why does the prosecution want to present evidence? Didn't they do their investigation? They should have done that before! And now they want to call witnesses? They should have talked to them before hand? The fact that they want to bring all their evidence and witnesses forward today in this impeachment case, shows that they didn't do their investigation." -The worlds best defense attorney
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Feb 13, 2021 17:11
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Velocity Raptor posted:"Why does the prosecution want to present evidence? Didn't they do their investigation? They should have done that before! And now they want to call witnesses? They should have talked to them before hand? The fact that they want to bring all their evidence and witnesses forward today in this impeachment case, shows that they didn't do their investigation." Its the words of a defense attorney who knows he's about to eat his defense presentation.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:12
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Random Stranger posted:They. Don't. Need. It. yes they do need it edit: googling about filibustering rules votes and it's probably more complicated than i thought, i'm pretty sure the filibuster is a consideration but less sure than i was a minute ago eke out fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 17:12
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This sounds like Mitch wants Trump to burn without hurting the GOP if he wants criminal prosecution Yeah gently caress that
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Feb 13, 2021 17:13
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eke out posted:yes they do need it and no a simple majority cannot change the rules of the senate absent killing the filibuster in advance of the vote Weird how simple majority votes keep changing the rules of the senate in the republican's favor without killing the filibuster.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:14
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They can always kill the filibuster for this single case alone like has been done in the past.
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Feb 13, 2021 17:16
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Random Stranger posted:Weird how simple majority votes keep changing the rules of the senate in the republican's favor without killing the filibuster. you're right, i edited my post, that the democrats could likely actively change the rules of the senate to undercut mcconnell's ability to block them let's all take a guess how willing Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema are to do it (all in support of a lengthy political stunt to depose trump? lol)
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Feb 13, 2021 17:16
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