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It would've been better if most of the time instead of specific numbers they're just like 'engage at cruising speed' or 'full speed' or 'emergency thrust' or whatever.
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Feb 14, 2021 03:51
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| # ? May 15, 2024 04:58 |
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Ahead full Mr. Crusher.
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Feb 14, 2021 03:58
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Feb 14, 2021 05:18
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rip cardassians
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Feb 14, 2021 05:21
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We're about due for a new thread, and I think that (including the characters) is a solid choice for a title.
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Feb 14, 2021 05:26
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Feb 14, 2021 05:53
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Thanks jadzia 🙏
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Feb 14, 2021 06:07
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Should have been a label on Odo that said something like "Is Mountain Dew"
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Feb 14, 2021 06:18
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Odo brings coal.
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Feb 14, 2021 08:14
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Odo is the guy who always tries to be the first person to sign up for the potluck so that he can volunteer to bring the paper plates.
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Feb 14, 2021 09:15
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MikeJF posted:It would've been better if most of the time instead of specific numbers they're just like 'engage at cruising speed' or 'full speed' or 'emergency thrust' or whatever. Meanwhile the Federation had their own vague speed ratings of "time distort [number]" so the show never needed to be specific. Which considering it was written by Terry Nation, who would use 'solar system' and 'galaxy' interchangeably, is probably a good thing.
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Feb 14, 2021 09:43
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Trying to equate warp factors to actual speeds does work with any consistency, so I just assume that the same warp amounts give dramatically different travel speeds depending on the path you are following.
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Feb 14, 2021 12:06
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SlothfulCobra posted:Odo brings coal. Odo busts Quark, Dax, and Garak for bringing drugs to a party because Odo is a cop.
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Feb 14, 2021 12:12
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I don't know obrian would be a chip man, but only if someone else brought chips and kick himself that he also did it. Then his wife would die cause the writers must see him suffer.
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Feb 14, 2021 12:22
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He and Keiko would have a huge tiff because he bought the wrong type of snack and it would kill the entire mood of the party
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Feb 14, 2021 12:26
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nine-gear crow posted:Odo busts Quark, Dax, and Garak for bringing drugs to a party because Odo is a cop. For some unknown reason Dax is released that same night, Quark is sentenced to 30 years, and Garak mysteriously dies in custody.
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Feb 14, 2021 12:43
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Feb 14, 2021 13:22
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yeah the way Starfleet treats the Discovery is just completely nonsensical In all fairness, Starfleet has a pretty long record for stupid deployment decisions.
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Feb 14, 2021 13:51
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Axe-man posted:I don't know obrian would be a chip man, but only if someone else brought chips and kick himself that he also did it. Then his wife would die cause the writers must see him suffer. Keiko always struck me as part of his punishment. He seems to love her, but i don't remember the shows giving any good reason for it. She's mostly complaining about him or at him from what I remember.
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Feb 14, 2021 14:21
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BonHair posted:Keiko always struck me as part of his punishment. He seems to love her, but i don't remember the shows giving any good reason for it. She's mostly complaining about him or at him from what I remember. We all know someone in a relationship like that, and if seems to be especially common among enlisted military. Since O'Brien is the only enlisted man in Starfleet he has to carry on a lot of traditions all by himself.
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Feb 14, 2021 14:51
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Angry_Ed posted:That would've been a much better explanation rather than "it's literally destroying subspace" and then they completely had to drop that idea a season later because it was too hard to write around. People always say this, but in my latest rewatch it seemed like they mostly managed to stay consistent with it. They either go warp 5-7 or give a legitimate reason for going warp 9. You'd expect them to drop it but I was impressed that they really didn't.
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Feb 14, 2021 15:58
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BonHair posted:Keiko always struck me as part of his punishment. He seems to love her, but i don't remember the shows giving any good reason for it. She's mostly complaining about him or at him from what I remember. Keiko seems like a patriarchal caricature of a "good wife". She's shown as loving and motherly, rarely sexually provocative and mostly quite a bit of work. I think her reputation as a nag is exaggerated because she's so underused on the shows. We never really see her justify her presence on the Enterprise; we're told she's a botanist, but while the writers seem very sensitive to the need to give the rest of the characters opportunities to demonstrate their competence (Reginald Barclay is a good example) Keiko apparently does most of her actual work between episodes, or in the case of DS9, first not at all (given responsibility for the kids on the station instead) and later off-screen and off-station. Presumably, if what you want in life is to be a stay-at-home mom that is entirely possible back at earth, but I don't think it makes sense for someone in Starfleet, and that is unfortunately the type of role she's being portrayed as. If she was a more fully formed character I think the troubles and tribulations of the O'Brians would be seen as a realistic depiction of marriage, but when that's all she brings to the show she ends up looking like a nag, at the very least to the main demographic. I do think they did a good job of establishing that she's a good woman, because her heel turn in "The Assignment" would not have worked so well if they had not. thotsky fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 18:54
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You can literally move halfway across the galaxy for a man, give up your career, raise two children with a full time job while your husband pulls double shifts, somehow find the time for sex, and they'll still call you a frigid bitch if you can't put on a bubbly demeanor. Also Keiko was extremely chill about O'Brian giving his hot boss massages constantly. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 19:07
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Arglebargle III posted:somehow find the time for sex, and they'll still call you a frigid bitch if you can't put on a bubbly demeanor. The way they subvert this in "The Assignment" is another reason why it is so good. It feels like whoever wrote that had a good grasp of the character, the problematic reception she had gotten and the underlying psychology of many viewers. thotsky fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 19:34
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Keiko is really defined by her relationship to O'Brien because she was introduced as a character with her relationship to O'Brien as her only defining characteristic. She didn't even get time as a background character to exist independently. So that left her without as much organic chemistry as you get with characters who fall in love over time on a show, but it also left her and O'Brien able to just be in a dedicated relationship no questions asked, while so often characters who start out single get stuck in a trap where no onscreen relationship can last. I think there was also an element of the writers not knowing what to do with her, and so all of their shortcomings at fleshing her out as a character or finding her hobbies or things to do gets funneled down into resentment for O'Brien bringing her to DS9.
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Feb 14, 2021 20:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think there was also an element of the writers not knowing what to do with her, and so all of their shortcomings at fleshing her out as a character or finding her hobbies or things to do gets funneled down into resentment for O'Brien bringing her to DS9. You could also just say it's an element of DS9's writers not being particularly good at writing female characters. I mean, Jadzia basically had three functions: Be Sisko's sounding board, call out damage reports on the Defiant, and "be Worf's love interest." Keiko is written similarly thanklessly, and let's not pretend that previous incarnations of this thread, for years, didn't go on long-running "Keiko's a bitch lolllllllllllllllllllllll" tangents pretending to be jokes.
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Feb 14, 2021 20:39
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To be fair there was that one time Keiko was possessed by a hostile alien entity and nobody on the station noticed
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Feb 14, 2021 20:49
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A surface level read of the show is fine too when it adds to the joke. I don't mind Keiko being portrayed as a shrew in the context of making fun of O'Brians lot in life, but I don't actually think the show supports that read; the marriage clearly means a lot to him. It's a shame they usually did not give Rosalind Chao much to work with; she's a great actor. There was an interesting episode of The Movies That Made Me with her on that just came out, where she mentioned she preferred TNG because DS9 was too dark, often literally. I have heard the working conditions on DS9 were really tough, so I wonder if that shaped her impression of the show.
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Feb 14, 2021 20:53
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thotsky posted:I have heard the working conditions on DS9 were really tough, so I wonder if that shaped her impression of the show. I don't think DS9's working conditions were tough, per se, but by all accounts, from cast and crew alike, it was a very different atmosphere from TNG and even Voyager, which were well-known for having a very jovial sense of camaraderie among everyone. DS9, on the other hand, was very workmanlike and there was not a lot of goofing around. Part of that is because DS9 could tend to have fairly compressed shooting days because of the complexity of its sets (meaning it could take a while for camera setups), part of that is just the actors who were involved, part of it is the tone of the scripts themselves. But I believe even Michael Dorn said that on TNG, it felt like he was part of a family, whereas on DS9, the atmosphere was very much "showing up for work."
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Feb 14, 2021 21:03
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https://twitter.com/NoContextTrek/status/1361047982418898947?s=20
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Feb 14, 2021 21:24
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Not so happy for all of his victims!!
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Feb 14, 2021 21:42
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thotsky posted:A surface level read of the show is fine too when it adds to the joke. I don't mind Keiko being portrayed as a shrew in the context of making fun of O'Brians lot in life, but I don't actually think the show supports that read; the marriage clearly means a lot to him. That's the bit that puzzles me, the marriage is happy and O'Brien loves her, but all their actual interactions are her being a shrew as I remember it. I think it's just the writers being lazy and giving her a sitcom personality, which incidentally works with O'Brien being the salt of the earth character.
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Feb 14, 2021 22:14
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BonHair posted:which incidentally works with O'Brien being the salt of the earth character.
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Feb 14, 2021 22:17
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Sir Lemming posted:People always say this, but in my latest rewatch it seemed like they mostly managed to stay consistent with it. They either go warp 5-7 or give a legitimate reason for going warp 9. You'd expect them to drop it but I was impressed that they really didn't. I think people think the episode happens earlier then it does, it's literally final season TNG so there aren't too many chances to even ignore it.
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Feb 14, 2021 22:27
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thotsky posted:Keiko seems like a patriarchal caricature of a "good wife". She's shown as loving and motherly, rarely sexually provocative and mostly quite a bit of work. I think her reputation as a nag is exaggerated because she's so underused on the shows. We never really see her justify her presence on the Enterprise; we're told she's a botanist, but while the writers seem very sensitive to the need to give the rest of the characters opportunities to demonstrate their competence (Reginald Barclay is a good example) Keiko apparently does most of her actual work between episodes, or in the case of DS9, first not at all (given responsibility for the kids on the station instead) and later off-screen and off-station. Was she part of Starfleet? The Enterprise was supposed to be an experimental family ship, where actual Starfleet people could just take their stay at home / telecommuting spouses and kids for the ten year tour or whatever it was. Hence the oversized cruise ship thing it had going on. DS9 as a space station would be the same deal. I'd assume Star Trek has a ton of stay at home people because of the whole post-scarcity thing.
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Feb 14, 2021 22:28
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Mr. Prokosch posted:Was she part of Starfleet? The Enterprise was supposed to be an experimental family ship, where actual Starfleet people could just take their stay at home / telecommuting spouses and kids for the ten year tour or whatever it was. Hence the oversized cruise ship thing it had going on. DS9 as a space station would be the same deal. I'd assume Star Trek has a ton of stay at home people because of the whole post-scarcity thing. There is a bit at the start of DS9 where she complains she can't get into the Delta quadrant like the Starfleet botanists do. Maybe the same one where she starts teaching.
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Feb 14, 2021 22:31
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Mr. Prokosch posted:Was she part of Starfleet? The Enterprise was supposed to be an experimental family ship, where actual Starfleet people could just take their stay at home / telecommuting spouses and kids for the ten year tour or whatever it was. Hence the oversized cruise ship thing it had going on. DS9 as a space station would be the same deal. I'd assume Star Trek has a ton of stay at home people because of the whole post-scarcity thing. I recently watched her intro episode and she was definitely on the Enterprise before she met Miles, because we learn that Data is the person who introduced them (and god I wish we'd actually gotten to see that). But also I don't recall ever seeing her in a uniform, so I guess she was a non-Starfleet botanist along for the ride.
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Feb 14, 2021 22:59
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thotsky posted:Keiko seems like a patriarchal caricature of a "good wife". She's shown as loving and motherly, rarely sexually provocative and mostly quite a bit of work. I think her reputation as a nag is exaggerated because she's so underused on the shows. We never really see her justify her presence on the Enterprise; we're told she's a botanist, but while the writers seem very sensitive to the need to give the rest of the characters opportunities to demonstrate their competence (Reginald Barclay is a good example) Keiko apparently does most of her actual work between episodes, or in the case of DS9, first not at all (given responsibility for the kids on the station instead) and later off-screen and off-station. the other episode where the pah-wraith takes her over does a good job of illustrating just how well she knows miles i think probably one of the disservices they did to the character was make her fundamentally against moving to and staying at ds9 which meant she was always either out of the picture doing a botany trip or arguing against the core conceit of the show Timby posted:You could also just say it's an element of DS9's writers not being particularly good at writing female characters. I mean, Jadzia basically had three functions: Be Sisko's sounding board, call out damage reports on the Defiant, and "be Worf's love interest." Keiko is written similarly thanklessly, and let's not pretend that previous incarnations of this thread, for years, didn't go on long-running "Keiko's a bitch lolllllllllllllllllllllll" tangents pretending to be jokes. i dunno, kira is an outstanding character and they have a lot of smaller roles that i thought they did well Verviticus fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 23:02
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Verviticus posted:the other episode where the pah-wraith takes her over does a good job of illustrating just how well she knows miles I meant the pah-wraith episode all along, am I misremembering the title? Mr. Prokosch posted:Was she part of Starfleet? The Enterprise was supposed to be an experimental family ship, where actual Starfleet people could just take their stay at home / telecommuting spouses and kids for the ten year tour or whatever it was. Hence the oversized cruise ship thing it had going on. DS9 as a space station would be the same deal. I'd assume Star Trek has a ton of stay at home people because of the whole post-scarcity thing. I guess I always believed pretty much everyone on the Enterprise were Starfleet, with the exception of some of the people staffing ten-forward, as well as the children of course. I mean, is that blue barber not Starfleet? I guess I figured the family thing would be mainly Starfleet families. Ultimately it does not really matter, my point is that anyone serving on the flagship of the federation has to be both crazy and crazy competent, willing to take a huge risk in order to better themselves and the species. We never really get to see Keiko do much of that. thotsky fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 23:07
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Verviticus posted:i think probably one of the disservices they did to the character was make her fundamentally against moving to and staying at ds9 which meant she was always either out of the picture doing a botany trip or arguing against the core conceit of the show I never understood the first season thing where they were like "oh, we could set up a massive arboretum for all the incredible samples of new plants coming in from the gamma quadrant and she could run it and study them" and everyone was like "nah, that amazing opportunity would be 'making her career a hobby' in some ill-defined way, even though it's almost precisely what she did on the Enterprise, so instead let's have her be a K-12 teacher, something she has no experience or prior demonstrated interest in and also something that Starfleet really really ought to have already provided for the station by default"
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Feb 14, 2021 23:16
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