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Coffee? This poll is closed. |
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| Yay! |
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54 | 34.39% |
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43 | 27.39% |
| O-kay? |
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24 | 15.29% |
| Whatever. |
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36 | 22.93% |
| Total: | 157 votes | ||
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Mister Facetious posted:There's something deeply disturbing that can be read from the popularity of an entire genre (that's still growing) centred around getting a new start as a successful person that can literally shape their destiny, either through death due to freak accident, or suicide. People who tend to like any kind of escapist fiction regardless of medium tend to feel powerless and lacking in agency in their day to day lives, I believe the term is called alienation, especially in modern society when the effects of your actions to earn a living (say, being a salaryperson in a big Japanese company fiddling with numbers on a spreadsheet) seems to have no appreciable effect on the world around you. People who feel like cogs in a machine being ground to dust will be drawn to experiences that make them feel important, that their actions and lives have meaning; and no doubt this also applies to people who feel the creative itch to create such experiences to give them to others. Creative works exist within their pre-existing social context, they reflect the society that produce them. On one hand it says something about society, especially given how prolific such stories are, however on the other hand I think it's unavoidable that any complex society comprised of teeming millions if not billions of people is going to have a large number of people who don't quite fit in and there isn't really a solution to this because there is never going to be enough places or positions where everyone who wants to feel like they matter can exist in.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:17
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Endorph posted:yeah isekai is bad but idk why people are acting like the problem with a genre where people get to feel like they have some actual power and freedom in their lives, is the people who wish they had that, and not the fact that their real life denies them that The problem isn't with the power fantasy part, it's that the setup quickly became a trope that newer isekai shows use for ironic humor now.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:25
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Elephant Parade posted:I am begging goons to spend more time reading and discussing works they like, and less time reading and discussing works they hate Sometimes talking about stuff you don't like is more interesting, though! It's like how some people enjoy watching bad movies. Hell, I love watching bad movies. I guess liking, enjoying, and thinking something is good are all on different matrices? :thinking: e: especially since sometimes there's good stuff too. I don't like jobless reincarnation but I think it's a good looking show. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 21:28
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oh no, not tropes! anything but that!!!!!!!!!
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Feb 16, 2021 21:28
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Waffleman_ posted:I am begging light novel authors to think about fantasy narratives in any other context than a video game I'd settle for a new genre of video game at this point. Maybe a guy gets hit by a big rig and is transported to Truck Simulator 2017. DoubleDonut posted:it's that capitalism sucks and seems insurmountable op It's incredible how many Isekais either aren't aware of this or are unwilling to talk about it frankly. Being a kid in Japan kind of sucks when you think about it. You don't just have to spend your senior year stressing about SATs, you also get to freak out over getting into a prestigious high school and a good middle school before that. That's basically half your childhood spent pulling overtime and stressing out over entrance exams so that you can get a job you'll spend 12 hours a day at in order to support a family that you'll never see. Is it really any shock that so many people just drop out of society all together and just watch anime porn in their man caves all day (or deeply sympathize with characters who do)? It's a shame because despite there being like 500 ongoing Isekai titles at the moment there's still a lot of ripe ground for a series willing to look at Japanese bluntly. I'd watch the gently caress out of a Marxist take on the genre.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:29
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as for me, i love the tropes. bring on the tropes
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Feb 16, 2021 21:31
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homeless snail posted:as for me, i love the tropes. bring on the tropes Depends on the execution. Some are better at it than others.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:33
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I think it's also partly that there's a pipeline that ends up publishing a tonne of random web stories if they gain traction. Like plenty of this kind of writing exists in the west but you don't really have the kind of companies that can propel it to wider recognition
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Feb 16, 2021 21:34
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readingatwork posted:I'd settle for a new genre of video game at this point. Maybe a guy gets hit by a big rig and is transported to Truck Simulator 2017. I would watch this. quote:It's incredible how many Isekais either aren't aware of this or are unwilling to talk about it frankly. Being a kid in Japan kind of sucks when you think about it. You don't just have to spend your senior year stressing about SATs, you also get to freak out over getting into a prestigious high school and a good middle school before that. That's basically half your childhood spent pulling overtime and stressing out over entrance exams so that you can get a job you'll spend 12 hours a day at in order to support a family that you'll never see. Is it really any shock that so many people just drop out of society all together and just watch anime porn in their man caves all day (or deeply sympathize with characters who do)? Not isekai, but still one of my favorite bits on the dark side of life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waDOWwCp-kQ
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Feb 16, 2021 21:37
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readingatwork posted:It's incredible how many Isekais either aren't aware of this or are unwilling to talk about it frankly. Being a kid in Japan kind of sucks when you think about it. You don't just have to spend your senior year stressing about SATs, you also get to freak out over getting into a prestigious high school and a good middle school before that. That's basically half your childhood spent pulling overtime and stressing out over entrance exams so that you can get a job you'll spend 12 hours a day at in order to support a family that you'll never see. Is it really any shock that so many people just drop out of society all together and just watch anime porn in their man caves all day (or deeply sympathize with characters who do)?
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Feb 16, 2021 21:40
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readingatwork posted:I'd settle for a new genre of video game at this point. Maybe a guy gets hit by a big rig and is transported to Truck Simulator 2017. Plenty of them have the character explicitly dying from overwork or getting hit by a truck they didn't notice because it was the middle of the night or whatever. Slime witch is probably one of the bigger ones and her whole motivation is to not work too hard and make sure others don't go overboard because that was how she died. Capitalism is certainly a big part of alienation, but we also shouldn't pretend that it's the only aspect. Rates of loneliness and dissatisfaction with life are going up seemingly everywhere, and I'm sure recent events and pandemics will cause a pretty significant spike as well.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:40
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Endorph posted:yeah isekai is bad but idk why people are acting like the problem with a genre where people get to feel like they have some actual power and freedom in their lives, is the people who wish they had that, and not the fact that their real life denies them that Liking Isekai isn't a moral failing for exactly the reasons you're describing. The problem is that power fantasies make for genuinely lovely writing because what's fun to write isn't necessarily what's fun to read. Good stories are about characters growing (or degrading) as people through conflict which you can't have if you aren't willing to let a character be weak and have real flaws or be put into situations where they genuinely could lose. For example a better version of the Slime anime would have him NOT secretly be the most OP character on the planet and instead keep him weak and force him to accomplish his goals purely through politics, mediation, acts of kindness, and relying on the physical strength of others. Instead he's literally unstoppable which kills any sort of dramatic tension the show may otherwise have because he literally can't lose. Then on top of that you add all the sexual weirdness combined with writers just regurgitating the exact same stories over and over and you have a recipe for a genre filled to the brim with titles that are both utterly incoherent, morally questionable and incredibly boring at the same time. Mandatory disclaimer: I don't hate the slime anime. I just think it could be better
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Feb 16, 2021 21:43
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readingatwork posted:I'd settle for a new genre of video game at this point. Maybe a guy gets hit by a big rig and is transported to Truck Simulator 2017. I think Yujou Senki touches on it, the author is also a socialist (to the hilarious gnashing of teeth of the series wehraboo fanbase).
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Feb 16, 2021 21:43
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the isekai boom is also a global thing, this isn't some Japan-centric phenomenon, a lot of these series do even better outside japan especially once they reach the anime stageIrony Be My Shield posted:I think it's also partly that there's a pipeline that ends up publishing a tonne of random web stories if they gain traction. Like plenty of this kind of writing exists in the west but you don't really have the kind of companies that can propel it to wider recognition also this, amateur web fiction portals allowing this stuff to build an audience without having to make it past an editor first like a traditional LN series would
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Feb 16, 2021 21:45
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im going to interpolate everyone in this thread to 60 fps but do it in a really bad way so you look like poo poo if you dont stop talking about isekai
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Feb 16, 2021 21:46
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i love isekai
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Feb 16, 2021 21:47
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Raenir Salazar posted:I think Yujou Senki touches on it, the author is also a socialist (to the hilarious gnashing of teeth of the series wehraboo fanbase). I might check that one out. Thanks!
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Feb 16, 2021 21:47
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Feb 16, 2021 21:49
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One Shot is my favorite isekai. On Little Cat Feet is a great song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYQzoZ4GwSg
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Feb 16, 2021 21:49
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Feb 16, 2021 21:51
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what's your av from
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Feb 16, 2021 21:52
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I recall Geoff screaming about High School Prodigies as the worst show of 2019 not because of any technical aspects, but because it is an isekai wherein the genius protagonists destroy a medieval hierarchical power structure specifically to replace it with an benevolent autocracy* backed by lovely neoliberalism. And the whole show frames this as an unironically good thing by the fundamental premise that the protagonists designed it. *Note: The leader of the group is a high school aged Prime Minister of Japan who got the position by straight up assassinating his father for the position.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:55
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Aurora posted:what's your av from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8F9xVRNHoU
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Feb 16, 2021 21:55
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power fantasies can absolutely be well written and executed its just people tend to only think of something as a power fantasy if they dont like it and its bad
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Feb 16, 2021 21:56
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urasekai
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Feb 16, 2021 21:58
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Joshiraku is super underappreciated. IMO, it was just shy of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei for funny skit comedy revolving around Japanese social commentary.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:59
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Endorph posted:power fantasies can absolutely be well written and executed its just people tend to only think of something as a power fantasy if they dont like it and its bad Anything can be good in the right hands but that doesn't make the general rule any less true. Plus, I'd be willing to bet that many of the examples you'd give me of good power fantasies aren't actually power fantasies in the sense that I'm talking about. For example Gurren Lagann scratches the same itch by having characters take on vast armies with robots that are the size of the moon but the writers are smart enough to constantly keep them on their back foot by challenging them with enemies the size of the sun. Despite the ridiculous tech GL is about being an underdog overcoming impossible odds, NOT about being so awesome that your enemies never stood a chance in the first place, which is the trap many Isekai fall into.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:10
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homeless snail posted:as for me, i love the tropes. bring on the tropes 
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Feb 16, 2021 22:10
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readingatwork posted:Have I bitched about how bloated and awkward anime titles are getting recently? recently, my anime title is unusual
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Feb 16, 2021 22:11
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well, there are exceptions
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Feb 16, 2021 22:12
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That Time This Troper Was Reincarnated As A Slime
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Feb 16, 2021 22:15
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i'm pretty sure this is a brutal idol tweet. i think. https://twitter.com/yumeminemu/status/1361681864147095562
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Feb 16, 2021 22:15
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The Mysterious Case of the Enlongated Light Novel Title or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Dungeon Ecology of this Wonderful World
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Feb 16, 2021 22:16
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readingatwork posted:Anything can be good in the right hands but that doesn't make the general rule any less true. Plus, I'd be willing to bet that many of the examples you'd give me of good power fantasies aren't actually power fantasies in the sense that I'm talking about. For example Gurren Lagann scratches the same itch by having characters take on vast armies with robots that are the size of the moon but the writers are smart enough to constantly keep them on their back foot by challenging them with enemies the size of the sun. Despite the ridiculous tech GL is about being an underdog overcoming impossible odds, NOT about being so awesome that your enemies never stood a chance in the first place, which is the trap many Isekai fall into.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:17
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Feb 16, 2021 22:24
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^^^ lmaoEndorph posted:being an underdog overcoming ridiculous odds, is also a power fantasy Yes but I'm talking about a certain kind of power fantasy where the point isn't to tell a good story but to have your personal avatar beat up all the bad guys and be obsessed over constantly by the girl with the big boobs. Think Kirito in early SAO where he's just so awesome that he can take on entire parties of other players and take literally no damage because he's just that cool and awesome despite that being in no way how MMOs work. Or in Jobless Reincarnation where the main character not only can use magic as a toddler (which I'll actually allow because he's secretly an adult and taught himself to read fantasy speak with the explicit goal of doing this) but also is able to break the rules of magic and cast without speaking for literally no reason because he's just that special and awesome. I'm not saying that this kind of power fantasy can't have a certain appeal at times (the sales figures speak for themselves) but it's the writing equivalent of junk food. Empty calories that can taste good in the moment but are shittily made and are probably unhealthy to consume in large amounts.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:28
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The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living and Became Mixed-Up Zombies Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan Night of the Day of the Dawn of the Son of the Bride of the Return of the Revenge of the Terror of the Attack of the Evil, Mutant, Hellbound, Flesh-Eating Subhumanoid Zombified Living Dead, Part 2: In Shocking 2-D
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Feb 16, 2021 22:37
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readingatwork posted:Yes but I'm talking about a certain kind of power fantasy where the point isn't to tell a good story but to have your personal avatar beat up all the bad guys and be obsessed over constantly by the girl with the big boobs. Think Kirito in early SAO where he's just so awesome that he can take on entire parties of other players and take literally no damage because he's just that cool and awesome despite that being in no way how MMOs work. Or in Jobless Reincarnation where the main character not only can use magic as a toddler (which I'll actually allow because he's secretly an adult and taught himself to read fantasy speak with the explicit goal of doing this) but also is able to break the rules of magic and cast without speaking for literally no reason because he's just that special and awesome.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:39
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kawai complex isn't even a LN. and the english title is like 3x longer because they went out of their way to attempt to replicate the pun
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Feb 16, 2021 22:40
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| # ? May 24, 2024 15:11 |
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readingatwork posted:^^^ lmao
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Feb 16, 2021 22:48
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