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Goblin Craft posted:At least Wrath of Khan was a sequel to an episode rather than a remake of one. I literally cannot imagine this being in even the top 20 list of genuine heartfelt criticisms of TMP for anyone.
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Mar 8, 2021 07:10
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I'm not a big fan of TMP, but then, I'm also not a big fan of 2001. They both fit into my category of "Movies that have double the run time they need to for the plot". I don't really have much interest in seeing 7 minutes of "The Enterprise flies into a cloud" or 8 minutes of "Apemen run around a monolith." Probably this makes me an uncivilized barbarian, though.
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Mar 8, 2021 07:13
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McSpanky posted:I literally cannot imagine this being in even the top 20 list of genuine heartfelt criticisms of TMP for anyone. I don't know, if you condense interrelated things like duration, pacing, editing, you could probably get there.
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Mar 8, 2021 07:40
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Epicurius posted:I'm not a big fan of TMP, but then, I'm also not a big fan of 2001. They both fit into my category of "Movies that have double the run time they need to for the plot". I don't really have much interest in seeing 7 minutes of "The Enterprise flies into a cloud" or 8 minutes of "Apemen run around a monolith." Probably this makes me an uncivilized barbarian, though. I think that scene is one thing that really changes depending on how you view it. It was definitely created to be shown on a big screen with a big cinema sized sound system, and the ‘plot’ point of ‘holy poo poo wow v’ger is fookin massive’ and all the awe and wonder that your supposed to feel is completely lost on a typical home setup.
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Mar 8, 2021 09:00
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https://youtu.be/caDGOG7aoKY
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Mar 8, 2021 09:23
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TMP sets the theme for all the original films, which is "how do you deal with getting old and still wanting to go on space adventures?"
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Mar 8, 2021 09:36
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Waaaait a minute. That last bit, I thought Vulcan didn't have a moon ?
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Mar 8, 2021 12:23
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mllaneza posted:Waaaait a minute. That last bit, I thought Vulcan didn't have a moon ? Shh. Twin planet. We need a :fanwank: emote to go along with 
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 12:30
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Eimi posted:Disco is really dumb, but I hate Picard more for ruining both the Federation and the Romulans. Picard is much much dumber and worse than Disco and stands as by far the worst star trek series by a huge margin now.
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Mar 8, 2021 12:42
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Tighclops posted:Of course. God hates us. every day we stray further from his light
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Mar 8, 2021 12:53
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For all that Picard was terrible and the big secret Romulan plot was terrible, I actually did quite like the smaller fleshing-out of Romulan culture, bits of their language and subtexts of it or some of their traditions that were shown, it fit in with what already existed and expanded it quite well. And one of the bits of Disco's 31st century future I didn't mind was the reveal of the fate of the Romulans and the success of Vulcan/Romulan reunification and both cultures coexisting together on
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Mar 8, 2021 12:56
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MikeJF posted:And one of the bits of Disco's 31st century future I didn't mind was the reveal of the fate of the Romulans and the success of Vulcan/Romulan reunification and both cultures coexisting together on All thanks to ambassador Spock. It was nice, I agree.
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Mar 8, 2021 13:05
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TMP would be a great "slow sci-fi" movie if only the scenes of wordless flying through abstract shapes were about 10% less slow, and yes I am aware of why this happened and the existing attempts to fix it.
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Mar 8, 2021 13:26
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TMP also had some of the best character moments for Spock. His scene in sickbay after he came back from his encounter with V'ger is great for both Spock as a character and shows Nimoy's acting chops. In TOS, most of the instances where Spock let emotion bleed through were a bit too over the top since that was the style (more of a stage production feel.) This was more muted while still getting the point across that Spock underwent something profound. TMP also kicks off Spock's arc that spans all of the TOS movies. He starts TMP questioning his place as a Vulcan, wanting to purge his human side. V'ger shows him denying one's full nature can limit growth and evolution and allows him to find his place and be at peace which is where he lands in TWOK, allowing him to be there to sacrifice himself for his friends and crew. His rebirth has him confront this duality again in ST:IV, accepting it. V hits themes of what it means to be family and pretty much brings the arc to an end. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 15:33
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MikeJF posted:For all that Picard was terrible and the big secret Romulan plot was terrible, I actually did quite like the smaller fleshing-out of Romulan culture, bits of their language and subtexts of it or some of their traditions that were shown, it fit in with what already existed and expanded it quite well.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:05
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TMP does seem like they had about 15 minutes' worth of plot that they padded out. The Changeling actually has a more complex plot, now that I think of it. It seems like a really bizarre decision how much time and effort TMP puts into trying to convey the inscrutable weirdness of an alien being and the impossible scale of things in space, especially considering that most anybody who is going to watch the movie is going to be heavily familiar with sci-fi trappings already from watching the show and the only reason the movie was being made was because of the success of Star Wars which is basically the polar opposite in presentation, with effects more as incidental details rather than trying to carry the entire movie with long abstract effect shots that the characters just stare at like they've never seen a weird space thing in their entire lives. I don't think any of Star Trek ever tried exploring the idea of a planet of sentient machines after that either, which seems like it could've been an interesting thing to follow up on.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:07
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Big the gawd Weyoun 6 one time. Ezri has taken top spot or at least tied for my least liked character+actor in the franchise.
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Mar 8, 2021 18:21
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knox posted:Big the gawd Weyoun 6 one time. This is impossible when Lwaxana exists
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Mar 8, 2021 18:27
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bull3964 posted:TMP also had some of the best character moments for Spock. His scene in sickbay after he came back from his encounter with V'ger is great for both Spock as a character and show's Nimoy's acting chops. I didn't appreciate the scene as much as a kid (who was definitely too young to understand the fairly abstract plot), but the scene where he "weeps for V'ger as he would for a brother" is one of Spock's best character moments. The character scenes and soundtrack are the two areas where TMP undisputably shines. That's a really good point about Spock's arc too. A case could be made that the TOS movies are more about Spock than any other character. He starts questioning his place as a Vulcan in TMP. By Undiscovered Country, he's openly showing emotion and telling Valeris that "logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end". One (of many) reasons the TNG movies aren't as good is that they don't have a coherent arc as the TOS movies did with Spock.
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Mar 8, 2021 19:06
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knox posted:Ezri has taken top spot or at least tied for my least liked character+actor in the franchise. Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:This is impossible when Lwaxana exists I thought the first post said "most" at first and was like  but now I read it right and I'm like 
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Mar 8, 2021 19:11
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The problem with Ezri is that she comes in as a new character on the last season of a show that's in the process of wrapping up its run and has spent a lot of time setting up the whole Dominion War arc. So the show doesn't have a lot of time to introduce her with all the other stuff it has to do. On top of that, she's replacing Jadzia, a character who had been there for six years, and finally got her own storyline with the Worf/Jadzia romance and marriage, which was something she hadn't had a lot of before that. Then the show just unceremoniously murdered her. So, Ezri also has to deal with the facts that fans are pissed off over the untimely and sudden death of Jadzia and aren't all that tolerant of the idea of replacement Jadizia.
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Mar 8, 2021 19:23
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I think Ezri is alright, but the episode where she goes to visit her family is bad
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Mar 8, 2021 20:35
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All of that sure, and the actress reminds me of a DARE/PSA drunk driving video actor.. I don't know maybe it's just me. Another observation on DS9 that I've seen discussed before, how much Nog and Jake diverge in the quality of their characters. Jake becomes such a bitch about everything. Moment he dipped on Bashir getting shelled though in S6 episode I guess the writing was on the wall, he's supposed to be the coward or something?
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Mar 8, 2021 20:37
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knox posted:Jake becomes such a bitch about everything. Moment he dipped on Bashir getting shelled though in S6 episode I guess the writing was on the wall, he's supposed to be the coward or something? That episode is basically The Red Badge of Space Courage.
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Mar 8, 2021 20:56
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Ezri is good Lwaxana is good If you feel differently, take solace in knowing you are wrong.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:04
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knox posted:All of that sure, and the actress reminds me of a DARE/PSA drunk driving video actor.. I don't know maybe it's just me. It's weird, the guy acts like he wants to see combat but as soon as he's confronted with the terrifying, chaotic reality of a warzone he just runs away? Guess he was just a pussy
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Mar 8, 2021 21:07
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SlothfulCobra posted:the only reason the movie was being made was because of the success of Star War This is categorically untrue. Paramount first approached Roddenberry about doing a Trek movie in 1971, and the reason The God Thing went from being the Phase II pilot to being a movie was because Paramount got cold feet about starting a fourth network. The wheels of making TMP proper were already turning by the time of Star Wars' release in 1977.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:20
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I gently caress with Lwaxana, no issue there. Maybe Ezri somewhat redeems character as S7 goes along but I doubt it. More bitchmode Jake, that episode with the pill popping young captain and he's trying to convince everyone they're making wrong decision- "I KNOW yall know my dad, CAPTAIN Benjamin Sisko. He's like, the best captain in the fleet." Dude had me actually rooting for the mickey mouse crew to prove his rear end wrong, even though he was correct.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:21
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Ezri gets off to a rough start and the episode with her family is awful, but she does get in that one great speech about the Klingon empire right before the end, so it's overall worth it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as886JnsjtQ
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Mar 8, 2021 21:23
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Jake's thing is he wants to be a reporter but he wants to be a reporter in an open society that doesn't really need them also he's sitting in the room next door as galaxy shattering events happen like his dad tricking the Romulans into a war or rogue starfleet intelligence operatives do a genocide and he never gets a hint of the story. Jake is bad at the job he wants to do. e: like he stays behind on DS9 when the Dominion invade and is actually surprised when Weyoun censors his stories.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:30
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I'm honestly surprised the Dominion didn't hold him hostage.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:33
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Alchenar posted:Jake's thing is he wants to be a reporter but he wants to be a reporter in an open society that doesn't really need them also he's sitting in the room next door as galaxy shattering events happen like his dad tricking the Romulans into a war or rogue starfleet intelligence operatives do a genocide and he never gets a hint of the story. Jake is the only depiction of the failson in all of Star Trek, and his lovely half arsed reporting is incredibly valuable representation of this timeless male archetype
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Mar 8, 2021 21:41
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Nitrousoxide posted:I'm honestly surprised the Dominion didn't hold him hostage. They had a non-aggression treaty with Bajor and arresting the son of the Emissary of the Prophets would have been an easy way to piss off the Bajoran government.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:41
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Yeah, in a future where you can be anything and anyone, with no limitations, he chooses to be a bad writer.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:43
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Axe-man posted:Yeah, in a future where you can be anything and anyone, with no limitations, he chooses to be a bad writer. Apparently he's popular, but the show makes a point of saying he can't spell. He is a writer who cannot spell.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:44
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Alchenar posted:Apparently he's popular, but the show makes a point of saying he can't spell. He is a writer who cannot spell. This is a running thing / joke about famous writers, though. Herman Melville and Thomas Jefferson couldn't spell to save their lives, same with F. Scott Fitzgerald and many others regarded as some of the finest writers in history. Ernest Hemingway once had an editor yell at him for turning in a manuscript that was drat near unreadable due to spelling errors, and Hemingway reportedly said, "I've done my job, now you do yours." Timby fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 21:48
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Sir Lemming posted:Ezri gets off to a rough start and the episode with her family is awful, but she does get in that one great speech about the Klingon empire right before the end, so it's overall worth it. Also we get a really good Garak scene out of the deal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLp_HJl-0nI
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Mar 8, 2021 21:49
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Does that matter at all in the utopian space future? Won't the computer correct your spelling, grammar, structure, and bad ideas? I bet there are billions of bad writers in Star Trek, just making GBS threads out compete drivel from their paradise that no one reads and loving every minute of it.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:51
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Mr. Prokosch posted:
You can find a pretty comprehensive list of those people here.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:53
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Alchenar posted:Apparently he's popular, but the show makes a point of saying he can't spell. He is a writer who cannot spell. What a riddiculus noshun.
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Mar 8, 2021 21:55
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