|
Flannelette posted:No alerts, no kills. Then you play without over half the abilities and gadgets and it isn't a fraction as fun.
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 01:27 |
|
|
there's no point in playing Prey stealthily, the only good/bad choices is saving survivors
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:45
|
|
|
The comments about Prey aren't about stealth (which was handled fine: you do it to avoid fights you don't want to take, then ignore it when you're godly), it was referring to "human only" neuromod runs. As a person who did one myself, what a big fat waste of time. Lesson learnt, ignoring all cheevos etc for their next game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:49
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:poo poo. nonlethal is a worse fate than a blade to the gut for most of 'em. The pope man get's turned into a zombie, lady whatshername gets sent to the creepers dungeon forever, The twins get sent to the slave mines. Vicious stuff I think there was eventually a tie-in comic or something where she manages to escape the creeper’s dungeon because mutilation and hard labor are one thing, extreme as they already are, but arranging for someone to be a sex slave is just a bit too far over the line
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
Serephina posted:The comments about Prey aren't about stealth (which was handled fine: you do it to avoid fights you don't want to take, then ignore it when you're godly), it was referring to "human only" neuromod runs. As a person who did one myself, what a big fat waste of time. Lesson learnt, ignoring all cheevos etc for their next game. ah yeah okay I understand now yeah it's way more fun to just pick what you want than to lock yourself into a specific neuromod type or that loving no-neuromod run bullshit
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:53
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:poo poo. nonlethal is a worse fate than a blade to the gut for most of 'em. The pope man get's turned into a zombie, lady whatshername gets sent to the creepers dungeon forever, The twins get sent to the slave mines. Vicious stuff The fates worse than death would have been a neat inversion from regular lethal/non-lethal morality games if it had acknowledged it in any way. Instead it's all "you sent them to a life time of mutilation and slavery? You sure are a saint! Here's a power-up and a picture of kittens I drew!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:57
|
|
|
christmas boots posted:I think there was eventually a tie-in comic or something where she manages to escape the creeper’s dungeon because mutilation and hard labor are one thing, extreme as they already are, but arranging for someone to be a sex slave is just a bit too far over the line Nice Van My Man posted:The fates worse than death would have been a neat inversion from regular lethal/non-lethal morality games if it had acknowledged it in any way. Instead it's all "you sent them to a life time of mutilation and slavery? You sure are a saint! Here's a power-up and a picture of kittens I drew!" They were added super late into development and it shows, the ones in two are much more cromulent
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:58
|
|
|
Tbf you can get Low Chaos even if you murder the targets instead as long as you don't do High Chaos poo poo otherwise or kill mooks, so Emily still doesn't turn into a psychopath. That being said, the morality system in that game is half-assed regardless and outright shouldn't exist considering that the High Chaos route is significantly more thematically appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
Earwicker posted:something about dishonored doesn't feel quite right to me but it's not so much any of the stealth or chaos mechanics it's more something about the movement and animation somehow makes everything feel sort of hollow and too light, like all of the characters are just cardboard cutouts or something, and the weapons dont feel like they have any impact Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:Then you play without over half the abilities and gadgets and it isn't a fraction as fun.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 01:59
|
|
|
Flannelette posted:It's something to do with their engine, it's really bad with a controller too. The lethal ones are poo poo like possessing enemies and letting them go so they tumble into the walls of light, using swarms of rats to eat them alive, teleporting to groups of enemies with frozen time and sticking razor traps on them, killing four dudes at once with frozen time and well placed crossbow bolts, setting people on fire, blowing people up with grenades, causing enemies to commit suicide, possessing people and placing them in the paths of projectiles, hacking the arc coils to fry enemies, blowing dudes away with a gun upgraded to have spread like a shotgun, decapitating dudes with your sword, unleashing weepers on guards, nuking them with whale oil tanks. I can go on and on and on. The non-lethal options are anemic and I say this as someone who beat that game on the hardest difficulty with a no detection, no kills run. It's not a fraction as fun, relies on memorization of the levels, and is obscenely slow and tedious compared to lethal which allows you to zip around like a murderous lunatic. The game is piss easy either way, the only difference is one is far slower, signifigantly more one note in regards to the tools and methods available, and the game outright, patently was not designed for it, as admitted by the developers themselves.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 02:09
|
|
|
ishikabibble posted:Did they ever fix the weird driving physics? That sounds like the dark days from around the time the console version was released. The devs in their infinite wisdom updated the PC version to include poo poo like rubberbanding and you can guess how well that went down. They eventually stepped all off that back as far as I know and I'm pretty sure that includes any changes to the driving physics. You should probably reinstall it and have another go.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 02:16
|
|
|
Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:Tbf you can get Low Chaos even if you murder the targets instead as long as you don't do High Chaos poo poo otherwise or kill mooks, so Emily still doesn't turn into a psychopath. This never matters btw. People always bring this up, but unless a player has gone out of the way to spoil themselves they will never know and thus can't play with this knowledge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 02:35
|
|
|
Phigs posted:This never matters btw. People always bring this up, but unless a player has gone out of the way to spoil themselves they will never know and thus can't play with this knowledge. why do you think the people that are boring enough to look up achievement lists before a game are incapable of also looking up their requirements? weird stance. it was common knowledge when i played, and i don’t give a poo poo about cheevos i’ve posted itt before about essentially ghosting all levels in dishonored 1 until the last two big twist ones where I said “gently caress this” and murdered every goddamn thing that moved (because, gently caress those guys) and still ended up with the lowest chaos ending even as i ended the game standing in a mountain of corpses
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
That's how I played Deus Ex Human Revolution, completely non lethal except when they downed the Heli, when I went batshit and killed them all, and when they ambushed me in hengsha, where I methodically killed every single one of them to send a message This is a lesson, always follow your heart Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
Non lethal runs are good if its viable without foreknowledge or save scumming. The non lethel run of Dishonored was fun as hell when getting caught turns into a mad scramble to hide again and then try to be more steathy. It was tedious as hell when the non lethel assassinations were like 90s adventure puzzle logic hard to figure out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 02:59
|
|
|
was hengsha the part in DX:HR where they just loving slaughter a bunch of civilians around you in the pod apartments because yeah, gently caress those people, too. that actually kinda messed me up tbh. also: Gaius Marius posted:Edit: I say this as someone with an Avatar from a Visual Novel I'll have spent 300 hours on by the time I'm done haha keep reading, NERD. seriously the end of 4 is good and you HAVE to be close to through the awful sakutorou crap
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 03:10
|
|
|
Serephina posted:The comments about Prey aren't about stealth (which was handled fine: you do it to avoid fights you don't want to take, then ignore it when you're godly), it was referring to "human only" neuromod runs. As a person who did one myself, what a big fat waste of time. Lesson learnt, ignoring all cheevos etc for their next game. I wasn't going for points, but my immediate reaction to Prey was "Yeah, I'm not putting any of that alien poo poo in my body," so my game was a pure human run. Same thing in Dishonored 2: "Well, you are so obviously a sinister bad guy up to no good. I think I'll do this without evil shadow magic, thanks." And of course in Dishonored I immediately went to all stealth, no kills because a true professional doesn't leave a mess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 03:10
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:I think Ninety percent of games should be tuned 50% harder, It's far more satisfying to beat something when it takes actual effort than to mindlessly push buttons until the credits Instead of that, make gameplay fun despite not being hard. I really enjoy being able to play games with my wife but she cursed a blue streak at all 3 Pikmin games and New Super Mario Bros U. She couldn't get very far in the Mario game. Anyways there's definitely a place for really hard poo poo and you can have a mix of both but if the difficulty *is* the fun then I'd say that's the game not giving the player much room to style on it signalnoise fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Mar 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 03:54
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:why do you think the people that are boring enough to look up achievement lists before a game are incapable of also looking up their requirements? weird stance. it was common knowledge when i played, and i don’t give a poo poo about cheevos I saw there was a low chaos ending and I knew chaos was caused by killing people. I knew there was a threshold but had no idea where that threshold was. So I didn't kill anyone my first run.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 03:56
|
|
|
signalnoise posted:
Diffculty is what gives you the room though. If the game isn't challengin you don't have to engage in it's systems, the harder it is the more you have to dig deep into it and learn from it to win
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 03:58
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:I think Ninety percent of games should be tuned 50% harder, It's far more satisfying to beat something when it takes actual effort than to mindlessly push buttons until the credits lurker2006 fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Mar 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 04:04
|
|
|
There's a sweet spot for game difficulty where a game needs to be hard enough to force you to use all of its systems and variables, but easy enough to not start invalidating systems and variables. The point where the most systems and variables are both necessary and viable is where every game should ideally be balanced. That's not to say they have to be locked at that difficulty, but that one difficulty option needs to achieve that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 04:05
|
|
|
If you want to make a hard game you better make it very precise and consistent. Predictable systems and mechanics that you should actually be able to consistently master and pull off the intended results instead of just kinda getting killed by bullshit that you can't even justify why it happened.Flannelette posted:It's something to do with their engine, it's really bad with a controller too. Most of the time when people say this it means that they are the ones who are very bad with a controller. Caesar Saladin fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Mar 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 04:09
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Diffculty is what gives you the room though. If the game isn't challengin you don't have to engage in it's systems, the harder it is the more you have to dig deep into it and learn from it to win I'm sorry you feel no incentive to be creative without being forced to do it
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 04:10
|
|
|
The sweet spot in difficulty is Cuphead (which I never did beat) anything else is a baby game for babies who want to play a movie instead of a video game. URMPH! edit: Or alternatively if too hard just not fun. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Mar 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 04:12
|
|
|
signalnoise posted:I'm sorry you feel no incentive to be creative without being forced to do it Not in video games. Cooking and baking the arts I excel at i can make my own challenge, but why would I push myself if the dev's don't think I should. And what would be the point.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 04:14
|
|
|
A pure human run in Prey is still great because you still get access to shitloads of fun abilities. Sliding around at super speed and jumping around shooting poo poo like Tigger with a shotgun is all done with human abilities. Becoming so strong that you can throw a couch like it's a baseball is a human ability (and yes, throwing industrial equipment at enemies is an effective build, it's like 3 skill points to max out and massive stuff that you can lift and throw is scattered everywhere) It was the pure typhon achievement that was hard to actually pull off; limited health and inventory space, no hacking, no lifting of objects, no suit or weapon upgrades, no speed or jump upgrades. Most of the Typhon tree is just direct damage or absorption spells. There's some cool utility stuff in there too, like being able to morph yourself into a drone that can fly, or into a coffee cup and then rolling through a small hole, but not having access to the human tree you miss out on a lot of good abilities that make the game more fun e: The optimal experience is obviously just ignoring achievements and taking whatever you want. That way you get superhuman speed and strength and the ability to levitate your foes with your mind QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Mar 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 04:32
|
|
|
I think there's a gameplay argument to be made for not getting shot by turrets Definitely get mimic matter 1 and then one more Typhon ability though E: yeah no inventory space upgrades seems like the most miserable way to play Prey feelix fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Mar 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 04:33
|
|
|
It's possible to be a creative person and still want a curated experience.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 05:17
|
|
|
Phigs posted:It's possible to be a creative person and still want a curated experience. That's not what this is about
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 05:24
|
|
|
achievements and speedruns really crashed the culture of people inventing their own weird ways to play the game so that sucks imo there's some people still doing it but it's almost exclusively dark souls for youtube clicks
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 06:27
|
|
|
Nice Van My Man posted:When achievements first came out I was really confused because I thought people would want to hide the embarrassment of how much time they sank into doing worthless poo poo in videogames, not wear it like some kind of badge of honor. I guess I was wrong. The really stupid part of this is there are people who won't leave the MS system because they don't want to lose their achievements.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 07:07
|
|
|
Nice Van My Man posted:I mean I'm into time trials so it's not a downside to me, but there's something undeniably satisfying about racing against other cars that you can see and interact with on that track, so I can understand someone not being into time trial racers. This is pretty much more or less a mode in F-Zero X. Earwicker posted:this sounds cool as hell. The GTA style is a good idea I think, especially since it means the cars can have their own distinct designs and personality. Give 'em catchy names and unique accessories and options, even fictional manufacturers. Gaius Marius posted:poo poo. nonlethal is a worse fate than a blade to the gut for most of 'em. The pope man get's turned into a zombie, lady whatshername gets sent to the creepers dungeon forever, The twins get sent to the slave mines. Vicious stuff I honestly kinda love that they did this, that the 'nonlethal' options are probably more hosed up than the lethal ones because you really need to go out of your way to get people with that level of wealth and power out of the way without just stabbing 'em.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 07:57
|
|
|
signalnoise posted:That's not what this is about Ah I see. Well to better address your point then, it's not a matter of "feel[ing] no incentive to be creative without being forced to do it". It's a matter of expectations and what a game is good at. If a game sets itself up as a series of challenges with a toolset to overcome said challenges then that creates a different environment than a sandbox where everything is just something to gently caress around with. In a game like Minecraft the whole game is a sandbox so I'll be happy to mess around with whatever tools the game provides. Some games like GTA are clearly hybrids where you have progression elements but also a sandbox. In a game like that I'm happy to have parts of the toolset be unnecessary for progression because I can gently caress around with them when sandboxing. But most games, even a lot of open world games, aren't really sandboxes. They're either not designed to be sandboxes, or their sandbox elements designed so poor they might as well not be there. Some very rare games are progression games that happen to have toolsets so fun to gently caress around with that it's worth it to play them just for that, but those are super rare. Most games are progression games that cannot really stand up on their own without that progression; they're just not fun enough to just gently caress around in. If such a game is fun enough to play through without using all the skills available to you then it should have saved the development time and just had less skills. If it's not, if there's a point where the player is tempted to switch things up just to stay engaged then I'd say the game should either be shorter so it ends when the player is about to get bored, or it should force the player to switch things up before they get bored. It should never be left up to the player to make their own fun outside of a sandbox game. If a player gets to the point of being bored it's just as easy to switch games or activities entirely as it is to switch up your playstyle. Eg. I COULD stop spamming this one ability in Torchlight 2, or I could uninstall this boring-rear end game and play something else. That's why I think games should force players to use their entire toolset.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 08:33
|
|
|
If a game forces the player to use its entire toolset it gates away all but the entrenched hardcores who instinctually and instantly get what it's about. It's cool to have a more relaxed goal standard to see the progression and let all kinds of people dick around and have fun and then tools to gently caress around with and create an alternate challenge if you ever want to return to the game Also it's just boring if the challenges are designed in a secret puzzle-like manner where I have to use exactly these skills in exactly this curated way and all the choice is an illusion Tonfa fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Mar 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 08:45
|
|
|
Speaking of returning to a game, having to use a games entire toolset usually makes coming back from a break and picking up where I left off impossible. Having to relearn everything without a gentler intro period is way too difficult a lot of the time in games like that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 08:48
|
|
|
Bravely Default 2 is really making me unreasonably frustrated that every time a job levels up a ! pops up in the character's menu. Doesn't matter that I've read the tooltip before, or another character already acquired the same ability, if I want it to go away I have to manually clear all the alerts. Like gently caress, this is not alert-worthy information that I got a new cure spell. idk if this is actually an unpopular video game opinion im just assuming this doubles as the bitch about petty grievances in video games thread
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 08:52
|
|
|
As a note a lot of devs can pull way more data out of their game than just achievement info as long as the game shares data back to them. Ubisoft for instance can see exactly where people died, what sections made people quit, what item was worn the most etc. Now a days those story completion cheevos are for you the player or smaller devs with less sophisticated setups.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 08:54
|
|
|
Can’t believe I thought Dark Souls Remastered would be a fun nostalgic experience. I’ve just forgotten how to do everything and it’s just as frustrating as playing for the first time was.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 08:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 01:27 |
|
|
Tonfa posted:If a game forces the player to use its entire toolset it gates away all but the entrenched hardcores who instinctually and instantly get what it's about. It's cool to have a more relaxed goal standard to see the progression and let all kinds of people dick around and have fun and then tools to gently caress around with and create an alternate challenge if you ever want to return to the game A good point, but I didn't say it had to do it right away, just before the player gets bored. And for replayability it can have different options that aren't always available to you. Dark Souls for instance you have different weapons, and you also have different specs closing off and opening up different parts of the overall toolset for you. Roguelikes do something similar by only giving you so much of the potential toolset on any one run. Dark Souls fails a bit in that I think there should have been more reason to use heavy attacks (and parries changed up/easier so players are more encouraged to use them for some fights, or just not been in the game).
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 09:18
|
|