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And the Klingons have more than their fair share of mad scientists too - I mean, these are the people who, when the messiah didn't return on schedule, decided the best solution was to clone him with fake memories.
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Mar 11, 2021 15:16
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John F Bennett posted:Yes. Also Patrick Stewart is portraying a character that has gotten old and mellowed out with age, living on a vineyard without stress. In real life, it would be weird if a personality wouldn't have changed in 3 decades. I honestly think his portrayal of the character is fine, though there is a real difference between "movie picard" and "tv show picard" and "Picard everything sucks" It feels like his additions to the Federation universe are a bit well, not the federation, a lot of them don't make sense, and a lot of them ignore continuity. Also the new federation is kind of a lovely place. 
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Mar 11, 2021 15:37
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McSpanky posted:I am of Bajor PAK CHOOIE PELDOR JOI
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Mar 11, 2021 15:38
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The federation used to be like root beer but now it's like Faygo
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Mar 11, 2021 15:39
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John Wick of Dogs posted:The federation used to be like root beer but now it's like Faygo When will Trek add juggalo representation
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Mar 11, 2021 15:42
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skasion posted:When will Trek add juggalo representation [img-the-guys-from-Let-That-Be-Your-Last-Battlefield.jpg]
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Mar 11, 2021 15:48
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Deflector dishes, how do they work?CPColin posted:[img-the-guys-from-Let-That-Be-Your-Last-Battlefield.jpg] lol
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Mar 11, 2021 16:10
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Marshal Radisic posted:Sisko ended up coming back in the novels, but it was honestly a rather bittersweet affair. He was reunited with his family and settled into civilian life on Bajor, but he never found much in the way of peace there. The Prophets ceased to communicate with him in any fashion, and Ben felt he had been abandoned by them after he had fulfilled his purpose as Emissary. He ended up being called back to the colors with that giant Borg invasion in the Destiny novels, and after that he ended up in command of a Galaxy-class ship exploring the rear end end of the Gamma Quadrant. He ended up spending a lot of time isolating himself from his crew and tried to separate from Kassidy, though she refused to accept the divorce and pushed him to start opening up again. That sucks. After everything he went through Sisko deserved a happy ending, enjoying married life with Kassidy in his little cottage on Bajor. That's my head canon ending for him.
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Mar 11, 2021 16:41
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Marshal Radisic posted:Sisko ended up coming back in the novels, but it was honestly a rather bittersweet affair. He was reunited with his family and settled into civilian life on Bajor, but he never found much in the way of peace there. The Prophets ceased to communicate with him in any fashion, and Ben felt he had been abandoned by them after he had fulfilled his purpose as Emissary. He ended up being called back to the colors with that giant Borg invasion in the Destiny novels, and after that he ended up in command of a Galaxy-class ship exploring the rear end end of the Gamma Quadrant. He ended up spending a lot of time isolating himself from his crew and tried to separate from Kassidy, though she refused to accept the divorce and pushed him to start opening up again. Christ what depressed author wrote this up
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Mar 11, 2021 16:44
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Wasn't part of the premise of the Worf spine episode that Klingons don't have doctors for more severe injuries? I think Klingon Science would end up lagging behind the rest of the galaxy just from how Klingons don't provide a good environment for the honest sharing of ideas and academics being able to challenge eachother's ideas just on the basis of their raw merit of their facts. They'd probably have an easier time stealing from other societies. The only Klingon scientist I remember is from that episode where all the major species are chasing after a secret message hidden in DNA and the Klingon scientist tries to bribe Data into defecting.
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Mar 11, 2021 16:48
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Angry Salami posted:It's one of those bits of speculation that doesn't really have much support in the show, but was repeated in so many licensed sources that people assumed it was canonical. The only real evidence on the show is that in "The Enterprise Incident", the Romulans are flying Klingon-designed ships - but that doesn't mean there was a technology trade Spock cites Starfleet Intelligence and says that the Romulans are now using Klingon technology. In truth, the reason the Romulans suddenly have D-7s in their fleet is because Wah Chang was so heartbroken and furious after getting ratted out to the propmasters union that he took the Bird of Prey model home and allegedly smashed it to pieces in his backyard.
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Mar 11, 2021 16:51
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Wasn't the original Romulan BoP also meant to be a Federation ship originally? (Hence the familiar saucer and nacelles)
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Mar 11, 2021 17:23
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Axe-man posted:It feels like his additions to the Federation universe are a bit well, not the federation, a lot of them don't make sense, and a lot of them ignore continuity. Also the new federation is kind of a lovely place. I sort of disagree about the Federation in Picard being a lovely place. We don't really see a lot of it...the flashback at Utopia Planitia where the Synths destroy Mars, Picard's villa, Dahj's apartment, and Raffi's home at the Vasquez Rocks, but from what we see, life generally looks pretty pleasant and happy. Raffi's got personal problems, but those come across as more that she was unable to deal with leaving Starfleet and sabotaged her life, and even as an antisocial unemployed drug addict, she seems to have a decent, if kind of small, home. You can say that the Federation not completing the Romulan evacuation was kind of lovely of them, and it kind of was, but, again, in their defense, they just had one of their own core worlds destroyed, as well as the rescue armada destroyed. I can see them being, "You know, maybe instead of rebuilding our giant fleet from scratch, we'll take some "me" time to mourn the destruction of Earth's first former colony, major federation shipyard, and home to hundreds of millions of people." Epicurius fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Mar 11, 2021 |
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Mar 11, 2021 17:42
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The notion that they would need a special fleet to evacuate people is ridiculous when that is a major purpose of the Galaxy class at the very least. It's an immense, mostly empty ship that can take on tons of people. Never mind that the Romulans should have their own ships to take part in this. And there's the stupidity of some secret Romulan spy agency causing that to kill millions on their own homeworld which is some major  .
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Mar 11, 2021 18:23
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Sir Lemming posted:Deflector dishes, how do they work? Oh boy, how don't they work! The deflector dish gets repurposed a lot of what I'm saying.
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Mar 11, 2021 19:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:Wasn't part of the premise of the Worf spine episode that Klingons don't have doctors for more severe injuries?
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Mar 11, 2021 19:39
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Eimi posted:The notion that they would need a special fleet to evacuate people is ridiculous when that is a major purpose of the Galaxy class at the very least. It's an immense, mostly empty ship that can take on tons of people. Never mind that the Romulans should have their own ships to take part in this. The Romulan evacuation fleet was ten thousand ships, probably each of similar capacity to the Galaxy. It's a matter of scale - they were evacuating billions.
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Mar 11, 2021 23:09
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I mean the federation too had no way to treat that injury, the issue was that the klingons dont accept disability
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Mar 11, 2021 23:12
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How much warning did they have that the star was going to explode? Internets tell me that they had to evacuate 900 million Romulans. With one year's warning, this would mean that you needed to get 2.5 million people off world per day. This isn't nearly as many people as it seems. There should be more than enough ships just laying around Romulan space to handle those passenger loads. That's moving fewer people per day than pre-COVID US airlines handle (2.9 million per day). Not saying it would be easy, but that you probably shouldn't have needed a special fleet to pull it off.
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Mar 11, 2021 23:22
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Lets not forget the secret mogai fleet that the pull out of no where to threaten picard with!
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Mar 11, 2021 23:58
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Eimi posted:Wasn't the original Romulan BoP also meant to be a Federation ship originally? (Hence the familiar saucer and nacelles) Yep, there was a cut scene that would have established it as a stolen Federation design - which would have added credence to Stile's paranoia about Romulan spies on the Enterprise later in the episode. (It's kind of interesting that that would have established the Romulans as the sneaky spy guys right from the beginning, something that's fairly absent from their TOS portrayal otherwise.) And then, of course, the Klingon Bird of Prey was originally going to be a stolen Romulan ship in Star Trek III - so it's rip-offs and theft all the way down!
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Mar 12, 2021 03:35
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It would've been neat to have it show up after as a smaller federation design with the red nacelles and cream hull, if they'd done that. A second Federation ship design in TOS! The extravagance! I wonder if they had the BoP in mind with the initial Reliant design with the nacelles above the saucer which was very similar. Or it could have been convergence: it's an obvious direction to go for a smaller sister to the Enterprise. If the BoP = stolen Starfleet had made the episode, I wonder if the Reliant in the movie would have ended up being a straight up BoP Refit. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 03:57
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The "Bird of Prey was based on stolen Federation blueprints" idea was reflected in Klingon Academy, where the movie-era BoP was upgraded with stolen tech from the Constitution refit project  
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Mar 12, 2021 09:27
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I really like how the OS Enterprise, Bird of Prey and Klingon Battlecruiser share some design elements - it implies that there's some practical reason for the design, and that even if they were all designed independently, there's a convergent evolution going on there that led to similarities in the basic structure.
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Mar 12, 2021 09:36
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Angry Salami posted:I really like how the OS Enterprise, Bird of Prey and Klingon Battlecruiser share some design elements - it implies that there's some practical reason for the design, and that even if they were all designed independently, there's a convergent evolution going on there that led to similarities in the basic structure. It's mostly in the shape and placement of the warp nacelles - long and thin, always in pairs, and separated from the main crew sections. For a long time, accepted fanon in some circles was that 1) warp fields required paired nacelles - so you'd never see a ship with one or three nacelles (no matter what Franz Joseph might have had to say about it), and 2) they generated forces or radiation or whatever that was lethal to anyone between the nacelles so they were always separate with nothing directly between them.
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Mar 12, 2021 09:44
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Angry Salami posted:I really like how the OS Enterprise, Bird of Prey and Klingon Battlecruiser share some design elements - it implies that there's some practical reason for the design, and that even if they were all designed independently, there's a convergent evolution going on there that led to similarities in the basic structure. On the inverse side of that, I also appreciate how you saw more intentional or unintentional cross pollination of design philosophies as the three Alpha Quadrant superpowers interacted with each other more and more post-TOS. Like how the movie Bird of Prey was literally just a stolen Romulan prototype that the Klingons reverse engineered and mass produced, and how the D'Deridex was specifically designed to trump the Galaxy-class because the Romulans had been spying on the Federation from the shadows for decades and wanted to slap Starfleet's big new shiny dick out of its hands in the most dramatic way possible.
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Mar 12, 2021 09:47
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Angry Salami posted:DS9 specifically is weirdly bad about it - I mean, I'm probably forgetting a lot of examples from TNG or Voyager, but from DS9, just off the top of my head, there's Quark writing sexual abuse into his contracts and this being treated as a wacky joke, the whole Bashir thing, Jake dating a twenty-year old Dabo girl, and the whole thing with Odo and Lwaxanna where he actually goes to Sisko to complain, who's response is 'let her catch you.' Nah, DS9 is really sadly not exceptional in this regard at all. The Quark stuff almost beats out a lot of contemporary writing because at least Quark is explicitly not "good" outside of situations where we're supposed to think he's redeemed himself. It's super hard to revisit pretty much any 90s sitcoms because a ton of stuff just comes off as outright racist, homophobic, or transphobic, and certain aspects of misogyny are so built in to a lot of them that you can't even separate them from the rest of the show. Basically, Star Trek is "better" because it's still watchable at all.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:21
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Eimi posted:The notion that they would need a special fleet to evacuate people is ridiculous when that is a major purpose of the Galaxy class at the very least. It's an immense, mostly empty ship that can take on tons of people. Never mind that the Romulans should have their own ships to take part in this. The normal Romulans can then move on with their lives.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:30
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Paradoxish posted:Nah, DS9 is really sadly not exceptional in this regard at all. The Quark stuff almost beats out a lot of contemporary writing because at least Quark is explicitly not "good" outside of situations where we're supposed to think he's redeemed himself. It's super hard to revisit pretty much any 90s sitcoms because a ton of stuff just comes off as outright racist, homophobic, or transphobic, and certain aspects of misogyny are so built in to a lot of them that you can't even separate them from the rest of the show. This makes me sad, because I'm worried that I won't be able to enjoy Star Trek with my son because he will have grown up in a better time and will not be able to look past the issues. Just like I still can't get into TOS. I'm not even gonna pretend Discovery and Picard exist.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:35
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Nessus posted:It would seem possible for a patient Federation intelligence agent to trick all the Tal Shiar into entering holodeck spaces within which they would be able to indulge in their apparently pathological fantasies of control and domination, in the same way that Moriarty thought he was going off to explore the galaxy with his lady love. You can then leave the holodeck running indefinitely. Why hasn't humanity retreated to a never-ending holodeck simulation of everlasting bliss and leave the maintance to a planet-spanning crew of robots. Isn't that the point of civilization?
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Mar 12, 2021 11:36
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https://www.reddit.com/r/risa/comments/m2w2di/attention_bajoran_workers/
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Mar 12, 2021 13:46
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This Deep Space 9 doc I watched on youtube yesterday was absolutely hilarious. Even had a sidebar scene where we go into the editing room of the documentary, and DS9 showrunner Ira Behr is with editor and they have a list of political issues DS9 successfully touched on. When sexual identity comes Ira says to remove credit for that, and brings up the issues we were just speaking about few pages ago; mentions Profit and Lace episode, the transjokes, and says he should have played it from drama angle and not comedic. And his other point is "Garak is clearly gay" and he faults himself for never playing it up beyond that first scenes with Bashir. Was pretty funny seeing that after just having the discussion. Also, actor playing Dukat being sloshed and talking about how he wanted to bone Kira actress ("man would've been cool if Dukat and Kira had gotten together"), and then Kira talking to Ira about how he told her she was going to have to hookup with Dukat on DS9 and she protested so hard they changed the plot to Kira mom story. I tried to link it here but it's "age restricted." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHixW9PLsAc
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Mar 12, 2021 14:22
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"Shouldn't have played that for laughs" describes, like, easily half of the problems with 90s and early 00s TV *cuts to Friends making jokes about Joey being sexually molested as a kid*
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Mar 12, 2021 14:38
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Sash! posted:How much warning did they have that the star was going to explode? Presumably they'd also have a lot of stuff on their home planet that they'd want to save as well. Although if you get into that, then it'd probably be easier to just tug the whole planet out of the blast zone and just salvage things from their cold dead world later.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:05
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knox posted:This Deep Space 9 doc I watched on youtube yesterday was absolutely hilarious. Even had a sidebar scene where we go into the editing room of the documentary, and DS9 showrunner Ira Behr is with editor and they have a list of political issues DS9 successfully touched on. When sexual identity comes Ira says to remove credit for that, and brings up the issues we were just speaking about few pages ago; mentions Profit and Lace episode, the transjokes, and says he should have played it from drama angle and not comedic. And his other point is "Garak is clearly gay" and he faults himself for never playing it up beyond that first scenes with Bashir. Was pretty funny seeing that after just having the discussion. What We Left Behind is really self-serving for Behr, and I had a feeling it was going to become hagiographic when Adam Nimoy quit and Behr took over as the director. But it really surprised me to see how brazen it was in terms of overflowing with "we could do no wrong, the angels were on our side" self-congratulatory bullshit. Their season 8 pitch was so utterly banal that it made most fan fiction seem halfway competent, and there's a startling lack of perspective in it. I've mentioned this before, but I was really blown away by Behr and others saying that they introduced serialized storytelling to television, which is so patently false that I nearly got a concussion from my eyes rolling into the back of my head so hard. I mean, sure, it was really nice to see some clips from the show in HD, considering the only other source for HD DS9 is the remastered first part of Birthright on TNG. But as far as new insights or information, that documentary was even more high-level and superficial than I expected, and I'm glad I caught it on Tubi instead of funding it.
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Mar 12, 2021 19:09
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They introduced serialization to Trek he said, and I believe his beef was with the 90s decade TV look back not acknowledging DS9 for having an all black cast on screen. Least that's what I thought. I mean he ran the show and had to push back against a lot of "big studio/big franchise" poo poo to deliver the show we got. I thought him putting the network exec on the spot was pretty fire, asking why it took 3 years to get Avery Brooks the goatee & bald look he felt comfortable in instead of the bullshit they haircut and no facial hair they forced him to have.
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Mar 12, 2021 19:20
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SlothfulCobra posted:Presumably they'd also have a lot of stuff on their home planet that they'd want to save as well. Was the supernova even traveling at superluminal speeds? If not they also wouldn't need to get them to their final destination each trip. They could drop them off at the closest planets capable of supporting them over a few years.
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Mar 12, 2021 19:46
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John F Bennett posted:Why hasn't humanity retreated to a never-ending holodeck simulation of everlasting bliss and leave the maintance to a planet-spanning crew of robots. Isn't that the point of civilization?
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Mar 12, 2021 20:21
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I’ve chosen to believe that his romulan supernova macguffin is actually a stand in for Jar Jar Abrams himself. Exploding onto this franchise and exponentially devouring all of it and magically transporting everything to a parallel dimension where no amount of writing matters as long as the camera is slightly tilted, lens flares, and they worship the esthetic of COOL Also, I’m old and there is a cloud over there that I wanna yell at, I’ve got a piece of my mind to give to Melllvar
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Mar 12, 2021 20:27
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Oh man I'd seen the big overhead dome idea, but I'd never seen these other excelsior bridge concepts, that's super cool and looks like a natural next-next-generation version of the TOS bridge  Love the second one the way the viewscreen becomes the side console screens. That's good enough they should pick up the idea in a future show. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Mar 13, 2021 |
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Mar 13, 2021 06:48
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