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I remember a few years ago I passed a lady in the street and her purse fell out her handbag but she didn't notice, I picked it up and turned round to give it back. I said excuse me, no response, said it three or four more times while following her (she was still walking wherever she was walking) to nothing. Ended up physically tapping her on the shoulder and handing it back. I still remember the look of palpable relief on her face when she realised what was actually happening and at the time I attributed that to just being glad she'd not lost her purse, but now I look back it's pretty clear there was a lot more to it than that and I feel pretty guilty. Not sure what else I could have done in the situation though tbh or what I could do differently were the same thing to happen today.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:18
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willie_dee posted:Listening to the BBC, it was interesting that more women are murdered by people they know, as if that was important, vs almost double of murder victims being male. What am I missing that makes women who are murdered more important than double the amount of men last year? The only thing I can think of is the idea that men are dying because they are implicit in the violence that occurs where as women only ever have violence imposed upon them. I've seen a conversation like this go round in circles many times. A: Men are killing women! B: Men are more likely to be killed A: Yes, by men! B: Ok, but I'm scared of those men too And I think, for the category of good-faith non-troll-MRA types arguing as A, it comes down to a fundamentally different perspective on the problem. Men who think of themselves as "good" see themselves as "on the same side" as women, against the violent "bad" men. Women may see this very differently. Here's a diagram I made (yay I got to use my Apple pencil):  Both are "true" in the sense they depict all the same people, but how you categorise them depends entirely on your relationship with each group.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:20
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Guns for women then. Ah like that famously safe country (checks notes)... the USA.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:21
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ThomasPaine posted:I remember a few years ago I passed a lady in the street and her purse fell out her handbag but she didn't notice, I picked it up and turned round to give it back. I said excuse me, no response, said it three or four more times while following her (she was still walking wherever she was walking) to nothing. Ended up physically tapping her on the shoulder and handing it back. I still remember the look of palpable relief on her face when she realised what was actually happening and at the time I attributed that to just being glad she'd not lost her purse, but now I look back it's pretty clear there was a lot more to it than that and I feel pretty guilty. Not sure what else I could have done in the situation though tbh or what I could do differently were the same thing to happen today. I suppose saying "you dropped your purse" would have been more likely to get a response than just trying to get her attention.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:22
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stev posted:I suppose saying "you dropped your purse" would have been more likely to get a response than just trying to get her attention. In retrospect maybe but at the time I genuinely didn't think she could hear me because it was quite a loud street and she had already been walking pretty fast so was a few steps ahead, and it was actually fairly busy. This whole thing happened in maybe 15 seconds. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 11:42
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Honestly I would have tried to go around and get in front of her, I think approaching from behind is not good whether it's horses, cats, or humans. Understand that the geometry of this interaction might not have made that easy
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Mar 12, 2021 11:44
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Borrovan posted:I have no idea of the answer to your question but having been a repeat victim of female-on-male domestic violence in two separate relationships I've found police involvement to invariably make things worse, so apply with caution. I don't know how that applies to "ordinary" male-on-female DV, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable can give you some more useful advice. yeah that's sort of what I thought and I wouldn't call the police unless it sounded actually dangerous rather than just nasty, but it's hard to know at what point that would be (there was a brief period when it sounded like doors were being slammed and stuff but it's mostly just raised voices)
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Mar 12, 2021 11:45
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https://twitter.com/MrNishKumar/status/1370323911997554690 A good way to go out, imo
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Mar 12, 2021 11:46
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Failed Imagineer posted:Honestly I would have tried to go around and get in front of her, I think approaching from behind is not good whether it's horses, cats, or humans. Perhaps the truly enlightened move would have been to keep the purse
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Mar 12, 2021 11:46
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ThomasPaine posted:Perhaps the truly enlightened move would have been to keep the purse Take the purse home. Find her Facebook by using her ID in that purse. Message her several times saying you have her purse and will drop it off at her house. Take a picture of you outside her house and post it to her Facebook so she knows it's you. Leave purse outside door and ring doorbell. Fool proof!
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Mar 12, 2021 11:52
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OwlFancier posted:It's continually amazing that starmer literally has no solution to any problem other than "more cops?" preview of starmers conference speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsbr2ewXPEo
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Mar 12, 2021 11:53
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Bobstar posted:A: Men are killing women!
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Mar 12, 2021 11:54
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Borrovan posted:This is more accurate imo. Men just aren't afraid of violence in the way that women are. It's not like anyone starts googling crime statistics when deciding whether they should be afraid or not. There's some circumstances in which some men might feel afraid of some other men, whereas (almost) all men are a potential threat to (almost) all women, all of the time. Someone saying "I'm also scared of the bad men" has a very specific idea in mind of the kind of men he's afraid of, and it's not "potentially anybody", so if they're arguing what you're saying they're pretty much always missing the point so egregiously that it's hard to assume good faith. Also the 'bad men' are quite possibly racially coded, even subconsciously.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:57
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One of the nice things about growing up where I grew up is that your idea of someone who is likely to murder you is a white guy with his trousers tucked into his socks.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:00
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Borrovan posted:This is more accurate imo. Men just aren't afraid of violence in the way that women are. It's not like anyone starts googling crime statistics when deciding whether they should be afraid or not. There's some circumstances in which some men might feel afraid of some other men, whereas (almost) all men are a potential threat to (almost) all women, all of the time. Someone saying "I'm also scared of the bad men" has a very specific idea in mind of the kind of men he's afraid of, and it's not "potentially anybody", so if they're arguing what you're saying they're pretty much always missing the point so egregiously that it's hard to assume good faith. I think you're right, especially because many of said people will only start making that argument when they learn a statistic about men, usually from such a discussion. They weren't actively scared before, so yeah it's probably often bad faith.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:05
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OwlFancier posted:One of the nice things about growing up where I grew up is that your idea of someone who is likely to murder you is a white guy with his trousers tucked into his socks. Yeah my strongest unconscious bias is definitely against athletic wear in non-athletic contexts. Classist obviously, but I think that describes 100% of the hassle I've ever experienced in my life
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Mar 12, 2021 12:08
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The Question IRL posted:Ah like that famously safe country (checks notes)... the USA. How about guns ONLY for women 
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Mar 12, 2021 12:11
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The hypothetical "logical" method of trying to get the purse back to a woman who has dropped it at night in a "way that won't make her afraid'" all run into the same problem. If she is afraid, she assumes the worst and your actions are going to be viewed through that lense. "Excuse me, I have your purse." That can be taken as a trick to try and get her to let her guard down. (And from listening to true crime podcasts, it has been used by more than one attacker.) "Get ahead of her and approach her from the front where she can see you." To do this you have to run or speed up to get in front of her, and when you start running towards her, she is again going to assume the worst. "Just Facebook stalk her and drop her purse where she lives." She will just think that you took her purse and are going to break into her place. This is a logic versus emotion puzzle. You can't solve it with logic or by acting in a certain way. If someone is afraid of you, there isn't really much you can do to make them not afraid, apart from give them space. It also means that whatever you did when returning the purse that night was probably the right course of action, based on what tools you had available to you at the time.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:13
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Failed Imagineer posted:Yeah my strongest unconscious bias is definitely against athletic wear in non-athletic contexts. 
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Mar 12, 2021 12:15
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feedmegin posted:How about guns ONLY for women Excited for Glinner's next hot take about how bad men are pretending to be women so they can shoot guns in public toilets.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:16
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Failed Imagineer posted:Yeah my strongest unconscious bias is definitely against athletic wear in non-athletic contexts. Classist obviously, but I think that describes 100% of the hassle I've ever experienced in my life Trackies is fine, it's specifically tucking them into your socks that is a red flag. It reads the same way a guy carrying a sword does. Like he might be doing it for a good reason but you still probably don't wanna stand near him in case he starts swinging it around.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:'bad men' problem solved via hi-vis ppe 
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Mar 12, 2021 12:18
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Failed Imagineer posted:Yeah my strongest unconscious bias is definitely against athletic wear in non-athletic contexts. Classist obviously, but I think that describes 100% of the hassle I've ever experienced in my life It's a half formed thought that I can't quite put my finger on but they're something interesting about the way racialised classism in the multicultural parts of the UK relates to overtly class-based classism in more homogenously white areas, and the way that framework informs general cultural attitudes across the country.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:21
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The Question IRL posted:The hypothetical "logical" method of trying to get the purse back to a woman who has dropped it at night in a "way that won't make her afraid'" all run into the same problem. The bit I bolded here is specifically NOT what I suggested. "Going around" would obviously imply leaving a lot of distance (ideally with other people in between), not running at someone from behind (??) . Then "running towards her" is also not something I suggested... Actually, gently caress your whole post. Implying that you can't be thoughtful and modify your behaviour to not stress or freak people out is just privileged stubborn ignorance. Ditto this whole framing of "logic vs emotion" - women aren't afraid of assault because they view the world through a haze of womanly emotions, its actually perfectly logical to be wary of being attacked by someone twice your size given that it happens constantly and literally every woman has personal experience of being intimidated or otherwise victimized (at the very least). Christ your whole post is one step away from "Women eh, you just can't win". Please desist
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Mar 12, 2021 12:24
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As a man I'm wary of someone approaching me on the street, even if I'm not afraid of being attacked when walking around normally. I'll always take a defensive/stand-offish stance, especially at night, unless the person is clearly a tourist. If you are approaching a stranger on the street for some reason (eg returning something they dropped) it's always a good idea to be pretty cautious regardless of their gender.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:29
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Failed Imagineer posted:The bit I bolded here is specifically NOT what I suggested. "Going around" would obviously imply leaving a lot of distance (ideally with other people in between), not running at someone from behind (??) . Then "running towards her" is also not something I suggested... Just adding on to this: even if you didn't intend it in that way, Question IRL, this is how it came across. I think every single man has made weird, fumbling, 'that's not how I inteded it, honest' remarks about something, but it's a lot more common with this subject in my experience because it's so hard for us to wrap our head around women's experiences. My first instinct if someone called me out like Failed Imagineer would be 'that's not how I intended it, honest!', but it's a poo poo defense and is, at the end of the day, a defense. This isn't just to Question IRL but to everyone: Just take the L and say 'poo poo sorry I'll try and do better'
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Mar 12, 2021 12:32
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Miftan posted:Just adding on to this: even if you didn't intend it in that way, Question IRL, this is how it came across. I think every single man has made weird, fumbling, 'that's not how I inteded it, honest' remarks about something, but it's a lot more common with this subject in my experience because it's so hard for us to wrap our head around women's experiences. My first instinct if someone called me out like Failed Imagineer would be 'that's not how I intended it, honest!', but it's a poo poo defense and is, at the end of the day, a defense. This isn't just to Question IRL but to everyone: Just take the L and say 'poo poo sorry I'll try and do better' Just to agree with this I've 100% been defensive and wrong itt many times, and will be again. It's something that you will always have to fight your lizard brain about. And I'm not interested in scoring points on other posters, but I've just heard this poo poo so many times, and sometimes even out of my own mouth
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Mar 12, 2021 12:36
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Honestly I think it's good generally to just keep in mind that other people can't see your mind and don't know you from adam, so the first steps of any interaction are facilitating the demonstration that you are not a serial killer.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:36
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Oh good. So what's a good VPN these days? I should probably get on that. Guavanaut posted:AirVPN seems pretty good.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:38
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My "not a serial killer" t-shirt is raising a lot of questions already answered by the shirt
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Mar 12, 2021 12:38
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Is there a formal threshold for "serial"? /edit: turns out there actually is, you have to hit 3.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:42
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If you kill people one after the other you are a serial killer, if you kill people simultaneously you're a parallel killer.
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Mar 12, 2021 12:43
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Failed Imagineer posted:That's a great one. The Toyota Hilux is the modern day Romans didn't use chariots in combat, just at triumphs/for races, that's more a Bronze Age thing 
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Mar 12, 2021 12:48
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feedmegin posted:Romans didn't use chariots in combat, just at triumphs, that's more a Bronze Age thing That's exactly why I struck it out  
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Mar 12, 2021 12:48
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peanut- posted:Is there a formal threshold for "serial"? makes u think
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Mar 12, 2021 12:49
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peanut- posted:Is there a formal threshold for "serial"? Is there a different between serial and spree? Where does "mass murderer" come into it?
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Mar 12, 2021 12:50
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Borrovan posted:So if you've only killed 2 people, and somebody's scared that you might murder them, would their fear of being murdered by a serial killer be rational or not? Like, you wouldn't be a serial killer until after killing them And if you have a group like the Manson Family, is it 3 per person or 3 for the whole group? Could be some serious padding of statistics there
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Mar 12, 2021 12:50
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Borrovan posted:So if you've only killed 2 people, and somebody's scared that you might murder them, would their fear of being murdered by a serial killer be rational or not? Like, you wouldn't be a serial killer until after killing them
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Mar 12, 2021 12:52
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sebzilla posted:Is there a different between serial and spree? Where does "mass murderer" come into it?
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Mar 12, 2021 12:53
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crispix posted:we were taught a bit about it in i think the second year of secondary school, but that was it. there was way more on the english civil war and the tudor era and that Both of those periods reaalllly should have covered certain events happening in Ireland at the time! Though I can see how teaching it in a classroom potentially full of kids of Orangemen etc could get a bit...fraught. 
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Mar 12, 2021 12:53
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