(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
|
Mirello posted:anyone talking about ship vs ship or w/e is braindead. if conflict broke out between china and amerikkka, all life on earth would end. there's no such thing as a limited war between two nuclear powers. It is yes and no, on one hand an actual war is unlikely but power matters. Would the US try to capture Iranian tankers if they had a PLAN escort? Probably not Could even a Libyan style conflict really even happen nowadays? Maybe not
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 07:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 20:11 |
|
|
Dreddout posted:Tell me what's the solution to declining enlistment among the young? Universal healthcare and tuition/fee free tertiary education so we can bring it down even father.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 08:00
|
|
|
Mirello posted:anyone talking about ship vs ship or w/e is braindead. if conflict broke out between china and amerikkka, all life on earth would end. there's no such thing as a limited war between two nuclear powers. i disagree, because there were multiple "limited" wars between nuclear powers during the cold war - just none of them took place on the home soil of either two parties. there is plenty of insanely hosed up conflict which could plausibly occur, and kill millions of people, without any nukes being launched. it's called a proxy war and there's no reason to think this won't happen again with the current trajectory of US-china relations
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 08:59
|
|
|
mila kunis posted:the MIC clearly is decaying in some ways, the F35 is a funny debacle, the navy has been consultant-ized into slipping operational standards, overwork and poor morale, but obviously it still packs a punch and is going to likely win conventional wars because the sheer amount of resources poured into it is going to yield results Well now, can you really call the MIC decaying when it managed to design a quarter of a billion dollar drone? But in all seriousness the super exciting planes are probably about as much use as a blimp. From the outside it looks like the US has fallen a bit behind on drones, but then they could have a whole world-leading drone program lying around forgotten for the price of one Zumwalt. Or possibly every branch of the military and intelligence agency has their own. Also also the drone programs that we now work against a semi-serious opponent are located in Israel and/or Turkey, not sure who did most of the heavy lifting in Nagorno-Karabakh. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Israel started some poo poo in the near future with their shiny new drones and their fully vaxxed army.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 11:23
|
|
|
https://mobile.twitter.com/TaiwanPresSPOX/status/1370291030361214980
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 12:12
|
|
|
Sorry to break up your Clancy chat https://apnews.com/article/olympic-host-japan-decline-china-vaccine-e9b31360de7c008b11da5a5ff388b466 quote:[IOC announced yesterday to] provide vaccines for “participants” in the postponed Tokyo Games and next year’s Beijing Winter Games. Looks like the Olympic farce will continue.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 13:46
|
|
|
nbd the japanese can use their own vaccine that they've developed on their own
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 14:28
|
|
|
Mirello posted:anyone talking about ship vs ship or w/e is braindead. if conflict broke out between china and amerikkka, all life on earth would end. there's no such thing as a limited war between two nuclear powers. i dont think china has enough ICBMs to destroy all of the earth? i thought they had a lot less than the old school USSR
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:i dont think china has enough ICBMs to destroy all of the earth? i thought they had a lot less than the old school USSR depends on your definition of "destroy all of the earth" like, perhaps the US and the USSR had/have enough missiles to target every major population center in the world, but that also isn't going to happen because nobody's going to launch a nuke against Buenos Aires, so even the height-of-the-Cold-War nuclear armageddon would still leave large parts of the Earth relative untouched by direct blast effects... but it would still be an armageddon in terms of the environmental effects that would basically wreck agriculture globally (on top of a whole host of other things) in which case, even "just" a regional power exchange between India and Pakistan could do that, so China could definitely pull it off
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 15:43
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:the chapo episodes
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
(1) china has ~500 nukes and a no-first-use policy (which i think is also unique to them?) which is a fraction of the size of the U.S. and russian arsenals. i don't think they want to get into an out-of-control nuclear arms race like the soviets. deterrence is the name of this game. they can already kill millions of americans and japanese with a push of a button -- the rest is just overkill. (2) i think the U.S. and chinese militaries are quietly talking to each other right now, and setting up hotlines in case something goes bad at sea. there has been some talk about that on CGTN (chinese think tankers saying that is happening right now) and i remember some liberal, democrat-aligned security think tankers (FPRI) saying that was something they needed to do once biden took office. even if they don't have much of a strategy, i don't think the people sitting on biden's national security council want things to spiral out of control into a great power war which would just be a huge disaster. (3) the PLA is inexperienced, but for a war like this, U.S. military publications talk all the time about degrading "core competencies" because of 20 years of kicking in doors on imperial occupation duty. they're not training an artillery battalion to fire, they're training an artillery crew to deliver one or two rounds. the marine corps' "core competency" is amphibious landings, but the training there has degraded because of deployments to iraq and afghanistan. but there is more training for that going on now, and has been going on for some time. (4) PLA military propaganda is a lot of fun and "in your face" and reminds me of U.S. war propaganda from world war II. recruitment ads today in america seem more like "this will be a way to tell your story," it's a very postmodern atmosphere, like the nike ad: "we are the stories we tell." but the dream of modernism is still alive in china:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zedSMcxzd54&t=120s 
BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 16:55 on Mar 13, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 16:42
|
|
|
yea, you don't actually need enough nukes to wreck the entire world, just enough to wreck any other nuclear power
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 16:49
|
|
|
drat, new dynasty warriors looking good
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 17:05
|
|
|
THS posted:i disagree, because there were multiple "limited" wars between nuclear powers during the cold war - just none of them took place on the home soil of either two parties. there is plenty of insanely hosed up conflict which could plausibly occur, and kill millions of people, without any nukes being launched. it's called a proxy war and there's no reason to think this won't happen again with the current trajectory of US-china relations proxy conflict is possible and even probable I'd say. however, the second chinese planes/boats are fired upon by americans the world would end. it's that simple. the nukes or the after effects will kill us all. That's why all this jerking off over relative power levels is useless.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 17:20
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:drat, new dynasty warriors looking good ^ breakfast of champions
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 17:43
|
|
|
Rewatching this movie after all the MIC and F-35 talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 17:46
|
|
|
classic
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 19:38
|
|
|
Mirello posted:proxy conflict is possible and even probable I'd say. however, the second chinese planes/boats are fired upon by americans the world would end. it's that simple. the nukes or the after effects will kill us all. That's why all this jerking off over relative power levels is useless. If proxy conflicts are a thing then "power levels" aren't useless, we have just gotten used to a world where the US could pretty much do what it wants. Future conflicts may not be "slam dunks" like in the past (think Korea/Vietnam versus the two Iraq wars). That said, the real conflict is economic but that said there is always a military element to it. In the case of China, it genuinely seems to be keeping trade lanes open.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 20:01
|
|
|
I cannot imagine any level of war between China and the US. All the imports and exports just stop? How could missiles do more damage than that?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 20:32
|
|
|
The US hasn't asked it's people to pay any kind of cost for a war since Vietnam. With the failure of small things like a mask mandate in the US it's hard to see Americans putting up with the actual cost of a war with China.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:If proxy conflicts are a thing then "power levels" aren't useless, we have just gotten used to a world where the US could pretty much do what it wants. Future conflicts may not be "slam dunks" like in the past (think Korea/Vietnam versus the two Iraq wars). Really conflict with China would be like Britain vs Germany WW1/WW2. The US will try to cut all of China's trade and starve them out. Only problem is we moved all our factories to China and all China's other trading partners won't be keen on the disruption to their economies.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 20:56
|
|
|
people haven’t really sketched out what they see as a plausible scenario for conflict outside of jerking off about Chinese drone swarms and nuclear torpedoes i guess Taiwan is the most plausible flashpoint where China is the one projecting forces so it seems like it’d be the one more likely to eat poo poo given it’s not had any experience in a generation in doing so
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 20:58
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:people haven’t really sketched out what they see as a plausible scenario for conflict outside of jerking off about Chinese drone swarms and nuclear torpedoes
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 21:16
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcPZXViQLv8&t=174s
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 21:20
|
|
|
despite the words of some fool itt it sure sounds like the US MIC is in decay and they are somewhat aware. in fact, it’s basically their own conclusion https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/war-games-suggest-the-us-will-lose-fast-if-it-confronts-china-44960 posted:
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 22:46
|
|
|
VideoTapir posted:China would be better served pouring resources into geoengineering to mitigate the effects of climate change ftfy also applies to the US and EU
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 23:08
|
|
|
axelord posted:Really conflict with China would be like Britain vs Germany WW1/WW2. The US will try to cut all of China's trade and starve them out. It is why the Chinese navy seems to be mostly aimed at deterrence, basically making the pain of USN moves against their shipping too costly to bear. Also, it simply gives them leverage on China which couldn’t compete with China on its own. That said, this far more about pressure points and proxy conflicts than any sort of lead up to WW3. The idea is that China wants to accomplish its objectives without firing a shot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 00:21
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:That said, this far more about pressure points and proxy conflicts than any sort of lead up to WW3. The idea is that China wants to accomplish its objectives without firing a shot. isn’t that always the idea? seems a dangerous game to play when your opponent is as reckless and shortsighted as the US. not that they should be doing things much differently, but it’s still precarious
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 00:24
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/RepAOC/status/1369799701915201545?s=20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9P2o95Y2II
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 00:27
|
|
|
ms cortez, my serfs yearn for feudalism
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 00:31
|
|
|
indigi posted:isn’t that always the idea? seems a dangerous game to play when your opponent is as reckless and shortsighted as the US. not that they should be doing things much differently, but it’s still precarious It is why this is pretty much the Cold War part 2, 1991 to 2012-2014 was an intermission.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 00:32
|
|
|
Junkozeyne posted:ms cortez, my serfs yearn for feudalism
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 00:32
|
|
|
mawarannahr posted:despite the words of some fool itt it sure sounds like the US MIC is in decay and they are somewhat aware. in fact, it’s basically their own conclusion lol at lefties believing the MIC talking about needing more weapons and money 
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 00:53
|
|
|
Why so thirsty for conflict in the China thread all the time shrike? I would offer you the Chinese version of Fanta if I knew what it was! Relax buddy
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 01:00
|
|
|
mawarannahr posted:despite the words of some fool itt it sure sounds like the US MIC is in decay and they are somewhat aware. in fact, it’s basically their own conclusion I'm skeptical China is going to open the war with first strike biological attacks, but the more interesting point in the full article on Yahoo News they linked to is the people running war games have an answer to this. They say the United States needs to move away from vulnerable large bases, ports and aircraft carriers to a more defensive and dispersed strategy of large numbers of long-range, mobile strike systems, which include anti-ship cruise missile batteries, mobile rocket artillery systems, unmanned mini-submarines, mines and robust surface-to-air missile batteries for air defense. Elements of the top brass and Congress are resist, but the Marines are scraping half their tanks for more anti-ship missiles over the next ten years. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...ion/ar-BB1em39R In wider Eurasia news. The National Iran Oil Company is in talks with several Asians nations on resuming sales in the near future. Indian refiners have already begun adding Iranian oil to their annual import plans on the assumption that U.S. sanctions will be lifted. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/13/sri-lanka-to-ban-burqa-shut-many-islamic-schools Sri Lanka will ban the burqa and close over 1,000 Islamic schools. The government has also given itself sweeping powers to detain suspects for up to two years for “deradicalization" as it extends it's Prevention of Terrorism Act anti-terror laws to cover "religious extremism".
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 01:02
|
|
|
 I’m just disappointed that leftists seem to give up all principles when it comes to China- “capital accumulation and unequal capital/labour relations is fine because it’s China” - “Taiwan should be part of China” - “China has the right to run roughshot over SE Asia because they’ve the power” - “China’s military will beat the US because the latter says they need more money and weapons” there’s this weird orientalism in the thread where China exists only to be the ur anti-US force, instead of a country with its own agenda and problems shrike82 has issued a correction as of 01:09 on Mar 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 01:07
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:
shut up and gently caress off back to dnd
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 01:22
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:
I have no idea about china’s military. I just know the American military is bad and while there is truth that they try to suck up more funding by pretending they suck, guess what — your military really does suck, can’t accomplish things, and won’t defend your rear end.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 01:26
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:
- capital accumulation for its own sake is bad; if its done to enrich the country and enable a socialist life at a higher level of development (and thus avoid having to literally prevent your intellgentsia from fleeing the country) it is good. We'll see. - maybe. I mean international law is probably on their side; its pretty clear that Taiwan was given back to China, and that the PRC is China. Its natural economic orbit is with the mainland of course, so it'll either have to become more dependent on the US or China. - hard to classify what they're doing as running roughshod. - who knows; lets hope they don't fight. But barring a collapse of either country, the trendliness make it harder and harder for the US to credibly fight and win closer to China's coasts. China, good or bad, is useful insofar as it blocks the US from doing anything insanely stupid. It also provides an alternative means of development for countries after 70 years of dependency.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 02:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 20:11 |
|
|
Centrist Committee posted:I would offer you the Chinese version of Fanta if I knew what it was! Relax buddy It's just fanta. I like the apple one
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2021 02:16
|
|
