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SlothfulCobra posted:I don't think Starfleet has officially dedicated spec-ops units, and in general they really respect seniority and don't seem to acknowledge ability slipping with age. So obviously the most important jobs should be done by the most senior of staff. Didn't Starfleet have special forces in "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier"? Anyway, I think the Enterprise, being such a large ship, should have a small squad of marines for away missions. Maybe just twenty or so young men who actually wear armor when going down into combat.
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Mar 16, 2021 19:41
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StashAugustine posted:He's genuinely convinced he's the good guy and the Bajorans just don't understand what they're missing (also not sure if the creepy fetishism is a cause or effect here); but in the end actually doing what's right for Bajor would have been giving up on the occupation, and his ego, patriotism, and racism just wont let him admit that.
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Mar 16, 2021 19:54
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Kurzon posted:Didn't Starfleet have special forces in "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier"? Anyway, I think the Enterprise, being such a large ship, should have a small squad of marines for away missions. Maybe just twenty or so young men who actually wear armor when going down into combat. Send these guys  
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Mar 16, 2021 19:58
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Did everyone forget about the MACOs? It’s ok if you did.
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Mar 16, 2021 19:59
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Peyote Panda posted:The book "Talk of the Devil" featured seven interviews with deposed dictators in exile like Idi Amin and they all sounded just like this. Every one of them felt righteous about what they had done and assumed that their falls from grace were temporary circumstances that would be reversed once the people realized what great leaders they had been and stopped listening to the political enemies or foreign agitators that had forced them into exile. Dukat's character really captured that same vibe. I forget which actor said it, but the best villains legitimately see themselves as the good guys.
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Mar 16, 2021 19:59
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Timby posted:I forget which actor said it, but the best villains legitimately see themselves as the good guys. It's because no real person ever set out to be evil. If you want believable and preferably relatable villains, they need to have believable motivations (but with some unsympathetic elements thrown in to make them villains). Dukat has very real motivations (patriotism, family and the others that have been mentioned) and acts mostly rational about achieving his goals. He just thinks of Bajorans as a lesser lifeform that he can use as slaves and/or save. Gowron also sort of works because he has a quite understandable motivation of being the leader of an independent Klingon empire. The Borg are not villains, they're more a force of nature really.
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Mar 16, 2021 20:13
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Almost nothing described as 'a force of nature' in fiction is a force of nature and ascribes the party way too much power and legitimacy. They're a hegemonising swarm with pretensions
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Mar 16, 2021 20:17
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The point of calling them a force of nature is not to call them a natural phenomenon, but to say they are essentially not a human-like actor. They're not really conscious of what they do, they just do it because that's what they do. In a way, the Borg aren't really sentient.
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Mar 16, 2021 20:24
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Hey Lise, time for chili.
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Mar 16, 2021 20:27
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BonHair posted:The Borg are not villains, they're more a force of nature really. The Borg are unempathetic and remorseless. That's pretty much how psychologists define evil, isn't it?
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Mar 16, 2021 20:44
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Timby posted:Shelby says at the end of BOBW2 that "we'll have the fleet back up in less than a year," so I can't imagine Starfleet was that badly stretched.
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Mar 16, 2021 20:57
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Kurzon posted:The Borg are unempathetic and remorseless. That's pretty much how psychologists define evil, isn't it? Yes. But also I disagree that psychology is a relevant discipline to understand the Borg. It's like using biology to understand Data.
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Mar 16, 2021 21:22
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BonHair posted:The point of calling them a force of nature is not to call them a natural phenomenon, but to say they are essentially not a human-like actor. They're not really conscious of what they do, they just do it because that's what they do. In a way, the Borg aren't really sentient. Sure they are, they even elect conventionally sentient sexed-up queens to lead them, which if anything suggests they have a bit too much psychology going on if you know what I mean 
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Mar 16, 2021 21:31
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Martytoof posted:Send these guys 
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Mar 16, 2021 21:51
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Carbon-based units?
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Mar 16, 2021 21:55
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The Borg are Cortez's galleons showing up on the coast of Mexico. We don't know where they come from, their ship is unfathomably advanced, and all they tell us is 'you exist to serve us now'.
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Mar 16, 2021 22:10
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Honestly the Borg without monarchs don't seem sentient or self-aware and could easily be on autopilot. Individual units once pulled out of the collective seem capable of sentience, but in cubes without a control unit, they don't really seem like they register the complex presence of other thinking beings beyond just a thing that can be absorbed. In which case, the Borg are genuinely less than the sum of their parts. Martytoof posted:Send these guys So like I said, the prime military age in Starfleet is 30-60 years old and Starfleet would naturally give important missions to senior old men.
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Mar 16, 2021 22:31
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Electronic old men, running the Federation
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Mar 16, 2021 22:45
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multijoe posted:Electronic old men, running the Federation s'cool
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Mar 16, 2021 22:52
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The Borg are one entity and that entity seems to be sentient. They are also self-aware, like, the first thing they say to anyone is basically "I think, therefore I borg"
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Mar 16, 2021 22:53
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The best Borg episode was the first one because you knew nothing about them and the episode was genuinely terrifying and hopeless feeling. The more they workshopped the lore the stupider they got.
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Mar 16, 2021 23:24
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we need a before/after episode showing the borg assimilating their first babe. things were never the same after
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Mar 17, 2021 00:11
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BonHair posted:Yes. But also I disagree that psychology is a relevant discipline to understand the Borg. It's like using biology to understand Data. I always thought it would have been cool to explain FC's Queen as essentially a psychological weapon against Data, who they know (from Picard) wants more than anything else to be human. But nope, somehow she was "always there", then Voyager hadda Voyager.
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Mar 17, 2021 00:13
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Payndz posted:They should sure as hell be able to use psychology against others, though - they have the combined knowledge of every race they ever assimilated, so there are bound to be some world-class shrinks in there to chip in if raw force somehow fails.
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Mar 17, 2021 00:25
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Nessus posted:They rapidly lose the psychological expertise as "there is no efficient purpose to anything other than science, technology, engineering or mathematics in the collective," allowing them to pinball around like a bunch of morons as drone attrition removes skill sets from the collective. A collective of all STEM lords. Truly a monstrous entity.
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Mar 17, 2021 00:40
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This guy got lost on his way to the future hockey game and just went with it when they asked him to guard something
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Mar 17, 2021 02:09
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Redshirts be like "Hey, uh, can I get some of that armor?"
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Mar 17, 2021 02:48
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If the Borg were actually a collective, you’d think they’d be like... smarter. In general.
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Mar 17, 2021 04:54
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jeeves posted:If the Borg were actually a collective, you’d think they’d be like... smarter. In general. have you ever observed the mob mentality? people sometimes demonstrably get dumber in groups
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Mar 17, 2021 05:00
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Mar 17, 2021 05:08
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https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/1372039665667207171
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Mar 17, 2021 05:20
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The Canadian Mint has made a fuckton of Star Trek money: https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/1372046960597860354 Also CanadaPost has printed a ton of Star Trek stamps too. The current crop is the iconic Captains and villains from each classic Trek series: 
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Mar 17, 2021 06:05
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Goblin Craft posted:have you ever observed the mob mentality? people sometimes demonstrably get dumber in groups No, stupid, wire the brains in parallel, not in series!
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Mar 17, 2021 06:41
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I love that Picard’s villain is just himself as a Borg and Archer’s is uh... the lizard guy from Galaxy Quest? I’m an Enterprise apologist and I rewatched it just last year and I still can’t tell you the actual name of that Xindi guy. Kinda funny how Enterprise never really had another central or recurring villain in the vein of Q, Dukat, or the Borg Queen.
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Mar 17, 2021 06:51
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Um, what about Future Guy?!
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Mar 17, 2021 06:58
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Angry Salami posted:Um, what about Future Guy?! Rick Berman?!
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Mar 17, 2021 07:04
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I love that Picard’s villain is just himself as a Borg and Archer’s is uh... the lizard guy from Galaxy Quest? Commander Dolim. But that's only because I have a good memory for dumb pointless bullshit. Angry Salami posted:Um, what about Future Guy?! Future Guy just gave the gently caress up at the end of Season 2 and left. But yeah, TNG and Enterprise are the hardest ones to pick a real good crystalizing villain for. Locutus is a good choice for TNG because he casts a long shadow over the rest of the series, plus First Contact and Picard. Folks like Q and Gowron weren't really villains in the end, and Sela only shows up for like three episodes and then disappears.
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Mar 17, 2021 07:32
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Kurzon posted:In the TNG episode "Chain of Command", why does Starfleet send an elderly starship captain and his ship doctor to go on a commando mission? Doesn't Starfleet have an equivalent of the Navy SEALs for this sort of job? And just because Picard is familiar with a tech thingy that the Cardassians are using? Surely there must someone else, someone younger, in the fleet who knows about it too. Late, but the weapon uses some kind of radiation that Picard specifically was an expert in. The Cardassians set it up as a trap for him.
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Mar 17, 2021 07:32
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Also putting Future Guy on the stamp behind Archer would be hilarious because he's just a silhouette voiced by President Shinra, so it would literally look like they just forgot to put a villain on the Enterprise stamp and sent the placeholder to print 
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Mar 17, 2021 07:36
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Kurzon posted:In the TNG episode "Chain of Command", why does Starfleet send an elderly starship captain and his ship doctor to go on a commando mission? Doesn't Starfleet have an equivalent of the Navy SEALs for this sort of job? And just because Picard is familiar with a tech thingy that the Cardassians are using? Surely there must someone else, someone younger, in the fleet who knows about it too. Eighties ZomCom posted:I thought Picard was in his 50's in TNG and humans live over 100 years. But your other points still stand. SlothfulCobra posted:I don't think Starfleet has officially dedicated spec-ops units, and in general they really respect seniority and don't seem to acknowledge ability slipping with age. So obviously the most important jobs should be done by the most senior of staff. Picard is described by a Doctor as being in "exceptional physical condition" in that episode where he's basically given a bypass. We only see him do space tennis and target practice once or twice, but it is heavily implied that he can do pretty much any job as well or better than most of the crew; including fighting klingons hand to hand, doing science and piloting the ship.
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Mar 17, 2021 11:08
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