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Cartridgeblowers posted:I really don't agree with this read. He never loved Gamora. Isn't the rule of the soul stone that one must give up something they love in order to retrieve it?
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Mar 20, 2021 17:46
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Cartridgeblowers posted:I really don't agree with this read. He never loved Gamora. Then how did he get the soul stone? The movie does not make it seem like the Red Skull is lying.
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Mar 20, 2021 17:47
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Cartridgeblowers posted:I really don't agree with this read. He never loved Gamora. Oh I agree. "Abusers love you in their own way" is a real bastard lie that should be discarded as a justification. However, the soul stone requires you to sacrifice something you love.
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Mar 20, 2021 17:48
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Did they bring Costner and Crowe back to record additional dialogue for Justice League or was that all archival? And I really didn’t care for the “I’m not broken” scene. After all the build-up about how the Mother Boxes would defend themselves and use all of your worst fears against you, the actual scene itself seemed weirdly perfunctory. In a bloated, overlong movie, that’s the one scene I wish had been considerably longer. Cartridgeblowers posted:I really don't agree with this read. He never loved Gamora. Of course he did. The Soul Stone approved of his sacrifice, after all. Red Skull didn’t say it had to be a healthy, normal love.
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Mar 20, 2021 17:48
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Phylodox posted:Of course he did. The Soul Stone approved of his sacrifice, after all. Red Skull didn’t say it had to be a healthy, normal love. It's this. Love isn't always good and hate isn't always bad. Love can be just as damaging and horrific coming from a lovely person as hate.
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Mar 20, 2021 17:53
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So those of you who've seen the film, is there a decent, 'normal' length film in there? Could Snyder have chopped out 60-90 min and still make it work or is it all stuff that had to stay in to remain coherent?Codependent Poster posted:Leto is best in Fight Club and Panic Room. Because Fincher has him beaten to a pulp in one and shot in the face in the other. My fav Leto moment is definitely when Batman goes hog wild on him with an axe while 'Hip To Be Square' plays.
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Mar 20, 2021 17:56
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Sentinel Red posted:So those of you who've seen the film, is there a decent, 'normal' length film in there? Could Snyder have chopped out 60-90 min and still make it work or is it all stuff that had to stay in to remain coherent? Absolutely.
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Mar 20, 2021 17:58
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They should have cut like an hour of stuff out of the movie. Some of the extra scenes are nice to have for some of the characters, the flash and cyborg specifically. A lot of the extra material was just fluff though, like the scene where a bunch of women serenade aquaman lol
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Mar 20, 2021 17:59
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Sentinel Red posted:So those of you who've seen the film, is there a decent, 'normal' length film in there? Could Snyder have chopped out 60-90 min and still make it work or is it all stuff that had to stay in to remain coherent? Sure? As with all of Snyder’s DC films, I think the most frustrating thing is that it feels like it’s only a few script revisions or editing sessions from being really good.
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Mar 20, 2021 18:00
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Sentinel Red posted:So those of you who've seen the film, is there a decent, 'normal' length film in there? Could Snyder have chopped out 60-90 min and still make it work or is it all stuff that had to stay in to remain coherent? well, i don't know about "normal" but you could definitely cut a half hour to an hour out of it and it would be a much tighter film
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Mar 20, 2021 18:01
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Sentinel Red posted:So those of you who've seen the film, is there a decent, 'normal' length film in there? Could Snyder have chopped out 60-90 min and still make it work or is it all stuff that had to stay in to remain coherent? I think he could've gotten it down to like 2.5 hours and it still be a crowd pleaser, there's definitely scenes that could be chopped entirely, like Lex in the blood water, the first Martian manhunter reveal, but keep the Martha/Lois moment, among other things. Personally I enjoyed getting his 4 hour super indulgent edition, warts n all.
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Mar 20, 2021 18:01
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Things to discard? Well, I like appreciate the little indulgences that add up in the movie. Do we need a 5 minute scene of Lois waking up rear end-early in the morning to buy a coffee for the security guard at Superman's Memorial as she does her daily pilgrimage? Nah. Does it pay back later when she resolves something and the act carries weight? Yeah. Just like the weird Aquaman choir kind of melds in with [ancient lamentation]. Or the 10 minutes of the Super Scream Heard Round the World that gives each Nation of Earth their own scene complete with Mother of cameo. I guess I just like how decompressed that poo poo is. It's different. Definitely don't need the first Manhunter scene. ruddiger posted:Why are you guys reducting his literal actions in the movie?
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Mar 20, 2021 18:28
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Cartridgeblowers posted:I really don't agree with this read. He never loved Gamora. Then how did he get the soul gem
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Mar 20, 2021 18:33
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Maybe the gem that possesses souls doesn't know the difference between possessiveness and love Maybe red skull doesn't either
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Mar 20, 2021 18:36
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I don't know how anyone could think we were supposed to feel sympathetic for Thanos at any point whatsoever.
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Mar 20, 2021 18:37
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Arist posted:Killmonger correctly identifies problems, but he's not a revolutionary because he can't imagine a better future. That's inherent in his goals: all he can think to do is do imperialism in reverse, switching victim and oppressor. And the movie goes into how he's been wounded and why he might be like that. Do you think the movie also agreed with him shooting his girlfriend in the face? Like that's the problem here, they had to comically exaggerate how evil he was, despite ultimately being right. The film agrees with his goals of equality for POC but argues that he should have been nicer about it and not resort to violence, and they want to make sure the viewer thinks so too so they made him murder his girlfriend and torch his cultural heritage. They purposefully diluted his message. Which, coincidentally, is the exact same argument the white establishment used against BLM. "They're free to protest but only in a way we find convenient". "How dare they torch down a walmart, people won't take them seriously now!" Sentinel Red posted:So those of you who've seen the film, is there a decent, 'normal' length film in there? Could Snyder have chopped out 60-90 min and still make it work or is it all stuff that had to stay in to remain coherent? His original 3h20 minute cut would probably qualify. This was extra indulgent though because it's his last hurrah and he figured why not toss the kitchen sink at it
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Mar 20, 2021 18:37
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Listen the soul gem is basic corporate level HR you can submit your resume but they don’t actually call your references.
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Mar 20, 2021 18:37
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We are just taking on faith the genocidal Nazi guy is telling the truth. maybe he can just hand it out but he thinks it's funny to get you to kill your daughter first
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Mar 20, 2021 18:39
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JT Smiley posted:I don't know how anyone could think we were supposed to feel sympathetic for Thanos at any point whatsoever. He's depicted as a person with ultimately well meaning goal and whom, as i recall, the movie actually implies is right, both in his dialogue with Gamora and with a "~Nature is healing~" line in endgame.
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Mar 20, 2021 18:41
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McCloud posted:Do you think the movie also agreed with him shooting his girlfriend in the face? Come on, really?
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Mar 20, 2021 19:05
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McCloud posted:He's depicted as a person with ultimately well meaning goal and whom, as i recall, the movie actually implies is right, both in his dialogue with Gamora and with a "~Nature is healing~" line in endgame. This right here is why nobody in this thread takes any post you make seriously. There's no point in even making a response to a post this stupid.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:12
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X-O posted:This right here is why nobody in this thread takes any post you make seriously. There's no point in even making a response to a post this stupid. Nothing in that statement is incorrect. His goal is to create a sustainable future where overpopulation doesn't lead to calamity, and the films imply that his methods lead to the desired result.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:23
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McCloud posted:Nothing in that statement is incorrect. His goal is to create a sustainable future where overpopulation doesn't lead to calamity, and the films imply that his methods lead to the desired result. Except his logic is based fully in fallacy (there's no such thing as over population on a universal scale) and the cost paid for the result was much higher than it needed to be. The drug was worse than the disease, because the disease didn't exist, and this is textually and explicitly the message of the movie as far as Thanos goes.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:28
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Maybe I missed something, where in the endgame/post endgame mcu stuff is the snap justified with showing the universe somehow flourishing in those 5 years
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Mar 20, 2021 19:37
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Vince MechMahon posted:Except his logic is based fully in fallacy (there's no such thing as over population on a universal scale) and the cost paid for the result was much higher than it needed to be. The drug was worse than the disease, because the disease didn't exist, and this is textually and explicitly the message of the movie as far as Thanos goes. I didn't say his logic made sense, I said that the reason people feel sympathetic to him is because his goals were well meaning, and that the films imply that his methods achieved his stated goals. I personally think his motivations are dumb and I wish the film would have gone to greater lengths to show that no, killing half the life in the universe is a god drat stupid idea that won't fix the problem at all, but  site posted:Maybe I missed something, where in the endgame/post endgame mcu stuff is the snap justified with showing the universe somehow flourishing in those 5 years I recall Captain America makes a comment about whales in NYC harbor for the first time
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Mar 20, 2021 19:42
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In endgame Steve says he sees a pod of whales in the Hudson and Nat tells him that if he says “look on the bright side” she’ll throw a sandwich at him. That’s it. That’s the one scene. E I don’t know how this 1 line that’s met with resistance by another character means Thanos was justified in any way, especially when the rest of the movie is hitting you over the head with how horrible it’s been for everyone. A talking coyote fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 19:43
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Well, you see, Thanos’ plan was to reduce pollution, so you see...
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Mar 20, 2021 19:52
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McCloud posted:I recall Captain America makes a comment about whales in NYC harbor for the first time That comment is not telling us anything about Thanos. It's telling us about Steve's ability to see a positive in any situation, even one this bad.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:55
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McCloud posted:I didn't say his logic made sense, I said that the reason people feel sympathetic to him is because his goals were well meaning, and that the films imply that his methods achieved his stated goals. I personally think his motivations are dumb and I wish the film would have gone to greater lengths to show that no, killing half the life in the universe is a god drat stupid idea that won't fix the problem at all, but Which seemed silly when you remembered that they showed you the harbor earlier in the movie and it was choked full of boats that were either abandoned because of the snapped or abandoned by incoming refugees. FilthyImp posted:Things to discard? That scene was the first one where I was thinking "Oh they could have cut about half of this and sped it up to regular motion and it would have still conveyed the point." I don't need a whole Sigur Ros song, then the start of the next one.
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Mar 20, 2021 19:59
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The whole point of the Snyder Cut seems to be "Show everything." It's for the people who specifically wanted more Snyder. Personally, I love that about it; I love that kind of maximalism, I love deleted scenes and extended cuts and early drafts with contradictory ideas. They wouldn't use the word "indulgent" if there weren't recognition that the thing being indulged in is in some way satisfying. But my own taste there is likely because I'm approaching it more as an open-ended conversation than as a definitive statement, and making a statement is what most movies go for. You could probably chop an hour out of this movie before it starts getting worse.
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Mar 20, 2021 20:16
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Vince MechMahon posted:The drug was worse than the disease, because the disease didn't exist, and this is textually and explicitly the message of the movie as far as Thanos goes. I don't think it is textual/explicit, though. being literal here, no one actually says in the script why Thanos is wrong the film's approach is to show how depressing Malthusianism is rather than how factually incorrect it is. the heroes oppose Thanos because his plan is unethical, not because it's irrational the wider context of course is that Thanos' motives were changed from the comics to make them more rational. we're supposed to sympathise more with eco-conscious Thanos as opposed to lovesick Thanos
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Mar 20, 2021 20:30
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I just remembered my biggest disappointment with Justice League. At the big climax, when Cyborg tells Flash to shoot him full of electricity “On one” and then starts counting down but gets interrupted, they didn’t have him eventually say “One, Barry! One!”
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Mar 20, 2021 20:33
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Lt. Danger posted:I don't think it is textual/explicit, though. being literal here, no one actually says in the script why Thanos is wrong The only thing changed in the movies is Death being a living entity. His reasoning in the comics is both that and what it is in the movies. There's an entire issue devoted to it after his resurrection.
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Mar 20, 2021 20:38
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Sentinel Red posted:So those of you who've seen the film, is there a decent, 'normal' length film in there? Could Snyder have chopped out 60-90 min and still make it work or is it all stuff that had to stay in to remain coherent? Through the Age of Heroes flashback, poor Gal Gadot is forced to give stretched lifeless exposition that goes on. And on. And on. And on. She finally finishes telling the story about the battle and the people who fought in it and what they did with the boxes afterwards. And then guess what, the scene keeps going. The flashback literally takes longer to show than they wrote enough dialogue to cover for! The whole sequence takes eight whole minutes to finish. Eight minutes, in pacing language, is multiple lifetimes. Think of your absolute favorite scene from your favorite film. Odds are, it didn't even take five minutes, much less eight. As an example of scenes that could be easily cut down, there's that part where Diana finds the warning arrow, searches the ancient site for some supplies, makes a torch out of those supplies, goes into the ruins, finds a secret tunnel that can only be opened with the arrow, looks through the ancient murals to find out the history, and then sees a depiction of Darkseid. Of course, any one of these beats could have been trimmed a bit, but the egregious thing that stood out to me is that they even show her meticulously goes through some arts and crafts supplies to fashion a working torch. Snyder. Dude. Zackary. Dude. We don't. We do not. We don't need to see Diana rummaging through bits and pieces of scraps -- tinder, matches, oil, the whole nine yards -- to MacGuyver herself a torch. There could've been a lantern at the site already. She could have brought a flashlight. She could have used a phone. Okay, fine, a torch just looks cooler than all those? There could have been a torch ready at the site too! Even if there wasn't, you didn't need to show her making one, even if one just magically appeared in her hands! It's an ancient Amazon site! We get it!
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Mar 20, 2021 20:46
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Death only died like a day or two before the events of Infinity War. Or I suppose Death and the Goddess of Death are two different ideas.
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Mar 20, 2021 20:46
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I think others have explained why Killmonger and Thanos have a little more nuance than they got credit for in that post. I want it made clear that I don't think anybody has to like those characters. Nobody has to like any MCU film or character. I respect opinions for what they are. I just got rubbed the wrong way by Thanos with no comment and Killmonger explicitly being called on for the color of his skin and apparently not telling a story that suited OP. Just talk about the Justice League movie you really like. No snide comments necessary. Though I do want to point to something said about Thanos specifically because I think it's important even outside the realm of fiction. If any of The Avengers actually tackle why erasing half of all life in the universe won't work the way Thanos thinks, they are immediately validating his way of thinking. They are meeting him at the debate table. They're going to battle with him in the marketplace of ideas. That would be wrong. They don't need to explain why specifically his methods won't solve a resource crisis across the galaxy. Killing 50% of all living creatures is wrong and that's genuinely the extent of the conversation that needs to be had. Sometimes you need to have genuine discussion with a person who has bad ideas or thoughts because it will help them gain understanding. Sometimes there's real debate to be had on right and wrong. But for me, any version of explaining Thanos' poor logic is meeting him half way and that's a terrible message to send.
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Mar 20, 2021 20:48
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X-O posted:That comment is not telling us anything about Thanos. It's telling us about Steve's ability to see a positive in any situation, even one this bad. It's also implying that the ecosystem is recovering because there are now whales in New York harbor. I feel confident in stating that that's not a place whales usually hang out in. If the idea was to show Steve's optimism they could have done so in a way that also didn't validate the crazy malthusian ideas
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Mar 20, 2021 21:00
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McCloud posted:It's also implying that the ecosystem is recovering because there are now whales in New York harbor. I feel confident in stating that that's not a place whales usually hang out in. It wasn’t validating anything, he was trying to cheer up his friend who he just walked in on and was clearly not doing well.
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Mar 20, 2021 21:08
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It amazes me how people seem to take efforts to add texture to bad guys motivations as excusing their actions, as opposed to the read that I believe is intended which is "...but they're still evil bastards who need to go down." There are a lot of things that can be explained as rational or partially forgiven on the basis of motivation, but genocide is probably at the top of the list of things that can't If anything giving evil bastards of this caliber well-intentioned motivations is a way of going "We should probably address these problems so that another loving lunatic doesn't come along and try to do it in the worst way possible"
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Mar 20, 2021 21:13
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It was worth killing 500.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 people so the whales could replenish
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Mar 20, 2021 21:14
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