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Gripweed posted:I see two possible explanations. No it's because however wide a net superhero comics cast there's still a formula to them and a lot that formula doesn't work with a giant hero story. Every issue would have to either happen in and destroy a city or in some nondescript random nowhere like happens in every episode of Power Rangers. That audience likes that I guess, a comic audience isn't looking for that in a comic. If every issue is a giant battle in a city I would lose interest quick. And what else can a giant hero do? Gripweed posted:Does the Hulk have a rogues gallery made up only of strong villains? Does the Hulk never fight other hero's villains because he could just immediately kill them with a single punch? I don't read or watch Ultraman but what does Ultraman do when he grows big? He has a lumbering giant fight with a monster? OK. Great. Let's do that 12 months a year and see how many don't get tired of it. I guarantee you not enough of an audience for Marvel Comics to keep pushing out the book. You've already said yourself he barely grows big in his new comic. That's because the audience reading an American superhero comic is looking for something more than a giant fight against a monster every month.
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Mar 22, 2021 04:36
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The big man superhero series already exists just go watch Ultraman
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Mar 22, 2021 04:43
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I am a micronaut so in my opinion Marvel in fact has way too many series about giant superheroes.
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Mar 22, 2021 04:45
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Blockhouse posted:The big man superhero series already exists just go watch Ultraman he already watches ultraman, but now he wants to read ultraman but in marvel comics, but not the ultraman series that marvel comics is currently producing because its not ultraman enough
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Mar 22, 2021 04:45
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Blockhouse posted:The big man superhero series already exists just go watch Ultraman Somewhere vulpes is weeping
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Mar 22, 2021 04:45
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X-O posted:No it's because however wide a net superhero comics cast there's still a formula to them and a lot that formula doesn't work with a giant hero story. Every issue would have to either happen in and destroy a city or in some nondescript random nowhere like happens in every episode of Power Rangers. That audience likes that I guess, a comic audience isn't looking for that in a comic. If every issue is a giant battle in a city I would lose interest quick. And what else can a giant hero do? All of the Marvel people who get big can control how big they get! There's no reason for every story to be a full on Godzilla size fight! They can be ten feet tall or twenty feet tall or 30 feet tall! And I'm no an expert on superhero comics, but I believe that not every single issue of a super hero comic is a one v one punchup. Other kinds of conflict and action happen sometimes X-O posted:I don't read or watch Ultraman but what does Ultraman do when he grows big? He has a lumbering giant fight with a monster? OK. Great. Let's do that 12 months a year and see how many don't get tired of it. I guarantee you not enough of an audience for Marvel Comics to keep pushing out the book. You've already said yourself he barely grows big in his new comic. That's because the audience reading an American superhero comic is looking for something more than a giant fight against a monster every month. I would believe that Ultraman not getting big was a smart business move on Marvel's part, if there were any non-Ultraman fans reading it and being like, yes, I like this, I was worried that it would just be Ultraman getting big all the time, but he rarely gets big so I am happy. As far as I know that's not happening. They are not adding appeal to Ultraman by keeping him small. You are further strengthening my point, every argument you come up with to defend Marvel's anti-big hero policy is instantly destroyed under the lightest scrutiny. There is no logical reason for Marvel to deny the world solo series about superheros who get big. So it's either a faulty reconceived notion like you have, or there's something nefarious at work.
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Mar 22, 2021 04:46
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e: this was too much
Alaois fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 04:47
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Gripweed posted:So it's either a faulty reconceived notion like you have, or there's something nefarious at work. Yes, Big Non Big Hero is definitely at work here lobbying in the background.
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Mar 22, 2021 04:48
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Alaois posted:he already watches ultraman, but now he wants to read ultraman but in marvel comics, but not the ultraman series that marvel comics is currently producing because its not ultraman enough My problem with the Ultraman comic is not that it's not Ultraman enough. My problem with the Ultraman comic is that it's very very bad. If it was completely different from Ultraman but in its own way good, I would like it. Like that other Ultraman-inspired series that just started, Ultra Mega. It is "Ultraman-inspired" in as such as the creator apparently once saw a picture of Ultraman and thought he looked cool, and is other wise completely unrelated to Ultraman. But the first issue was good and I want to keep reading it. The Ultraman manga is very different from the Ultraman show, and coincidentally also doesn't have Ultraman getting big, but I still like it because it's doing it's own thing well.
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Mar 22, 2021 04:49
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X-O posted:Yes, Big Non Big Hero is definitely at work here lobbying in the background. I was kinda intending this whole to be a joke about anti-big hero, and we'd all be like, "Yeah a Stature comic would be cool, it's weird that they haven't done something like that" and then you'd all get back to talking about King Venom or whatever. I was not expecting to come up against genuine anti-big hero bias.
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Mar 22, 2021 04:52
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Bottom line is that the very premise of big hero is just a limiting factor for a lot of the conventions of American superhero comics. I guarantee it can be done well by someone but it's not something that anyone is really clamoring for at the moment. I imagine that Stature is much more likely to get some kind of solo run now that she's Stinger because it's just something that fits the formula better.
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Mar 22, 2021 04:57
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Are people seriously struggling with the idea of a fan of something struggling through bad poo poo in the hopes of finding something good? Are we not comic fans?
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Mar 22, 2021 05:00
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What are Transformers if not big superheroes that can turn into differently shaped big superheroes?
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Mar 22, 2021 05:04
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X-O posted:Bottom line is that the very premise of big hero is just a limiting factor for a lot of the conventions of American superhero comics. I guarantee it can be done well by someone but it's not something that anyone is really clamoring for at the moment. I imagine that Stature is much more likely to get some kind of solo run now that she's Stinger because it's just something that fits the formula better. I just don't think it's really that big of an issue. You'd have to have different challenges for a big hero to overcome than like Batman or Spider-Man, but that's also true for a guy who can make anything he can think of out of light or a guy who can lift a train and fly and shoot lasers out of his eyes. If the real reason Marvel never did a Goliath or Giant Man or Stature series is because they thought it would be too hard to come up with things for a big superhero to do on their own then I'm sorry, but I think they're just being small-minded
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Mar 22, 2021 05:11
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Nilbop posted:Are we not comic fans? I mean, I know I am, but I don't think Gripweed is.
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Mar 22, 2021 05:13
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X-O posted:Big Non Big Hero Now that's a monthly I'd read
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Mar 22, 2021 05:17
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has marvel ever done a volleyball comic book? if not, why not??
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Mar 22, 2021 05:31
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Gripweed posted:I just don't think it's really that big of an issue. You'd have to have different challenges for a big hero to overcome than like Batman or Spider-Man, but that's also true for a guy who can make anything he can think of out of light or a guy who can lift a train and fly and shoot lasers out of his eyes. If the real reason Marvel never did a Goliath or Giant Man or Stature series is because they thought it would be too hard to come up with things for a big superhero to do on their own then I'm sorry, but I think they're just being There was a Black Goliath solo series in the mid-70s but it only lasted six issues and he didn't do much interesting stuff with his powers in it. I remember that in one issue he fights Stilt Man and loses which is pretty ignominious. I do wonder why big-hero stuff seems to mix so poorly with conventional superhero stuff. Kid Kaiju was kind of a bust and Red Ronin/Godzilla stuff has always kind of been on the periphery. I'm not sure. I know that when I imagine the pitch "this guy gets huge" I'm not very interested but I don't really know why. Although now that I think about it I think there should be at least one mutant on Krakoa who is just enormous all the time and like his boot shoes up in group shots or when we pan out to see the island we can see his, like, hand sprawling out of the woods.
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Mar 22, 2021 05:33
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Gripweed posted:I know Marvel has a bunch of heroes that get big. Giant-Man, Goliath, Stature. But they seem like they're always on teams. Have any of them every gotten their own series about getting big to stop crime? BIG in comics is something that seems to have trouble working, probably just due to the deadlines involved. Scale requires lots of detail, and even talented artists have trouble with it. There's a reason that there isn't a ton of beloved giant robot manga in Japan despite... giant robots, manga, and Japan being what they are to each other. Meanwhile, big works pretty well on weekly kids TV because it's fun to see guys dressed in weird outfits stomp around miniature sets, especially when it's shot with a bit of expertise. I'm sure there are artists out there who could crack the formula on how to do consistent striking action that plays with scale, but there's not exactly a ton of incentive for them to, is there?
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Mar 22, 2021 05:36
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Here, I have invented a new giant hero for us all to enjoy. His name is Big Super Samuel and I believe he is the biggest hero yet. I hope this demonstrates that BSS at least is a welcoming zone for huge hunks and other large beings.
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Mar 22, 2021 05:46
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do you want to attract cabbagepots because this is how you attract cabbagepots
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Mar 22, 2021 05:47
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Alaois posted:do you want to attract cabbagepots 
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Mar 22, 2021 05:53
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someone get the subforum name changed right now
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Mar 22, 2021 06:04
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How about instead of heroes that grow, Marvel just gives their existing heroes giant mech suits, and have some hack write it?
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Mar 22, 2021 06:14
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How Wonderful! posted:Here, I have invented a new giant hero for us all to enjoy. His name is Big Super Samuel and I believe he is the biggest hero yet. I hope this demonstrates that BSS at least is a welcoming zone for huge hunks and other large beings. You can't fool me that's just the King of All Cosmos' distant cousin
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Mar 22, 2021 07:25
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I’m in the big superhero camp. Surely Ewing could have put one in Guardians. Going to read that Goliath series. His kid should get one.
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Mar 22, 2021 10:22
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I'm admittedly super casual when it comes to how many comics I read but like, the last batch of Ultraman episodes I watched included a story where one of the supporting character's younger bother gets involved in a rugby game against a syndicate of alien criminals after he unwittingly starts rooming with another group of aliens that just want to chill out on earth when he runs away from his college team after screwing up a game, and another where a monster that's being treated as a tourist trap starts to go wild after the people misunderstand that it's in the "wind down" part of Its lifecycle before it turns into a mountain as it being unwell and giving it a shot that it doesn't need So like, there can be more to giant hero stories than just "big guy punches other big things." Maybe those things are less interesting when conveyed as sequential art than as live action special effects, but the idea that it has to be so simple conceptually seems weird to me
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Mar 22, 2021 10:31
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Finally we awaken to comics' Anti-Big Agenda
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Mar 22, 2021 10:42
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Anti-Big Agenda It's finally time we put Tom Hanks in his place
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Mar 22, 2021 10:45
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OK well the Goliath series. BECAUSE YOU DEMANDED IT, TRUE BELIEVERS! And we're demanding it again. Issue 1 is written by Tony Isabella, and 2-5 by Chris Claremont apparently! Hey, here's a big hero thing I didn't think of:  He tears the top off a fire hydrant and absolutely sprays some mugs. My lord, the Stilt-Man has become MASSIVE.   OK, I've never heard that word in my life. Susurration: whispering or rustling; "the susurration of the river". Honestly the art is decent, as are the giant feats.  He tears up the floor to deflect a Deadly Radiation Blast and trip up the Atom Smasher!  Thank god that tire was filled to the loving max.  The book really hits its peak in 4/5, mostly 5, which is a shame. It's a little annoying that the artist likes to switch POV every panel, there's some messed up perspective which is bad with a Giant Man, and obviously it's filled to the brim with text (Claremont), but it was decent. I'd like to have seen Goliath winning some more with another 2 or 3 issues. There's a Marvel Essentials Giant Man with Black Goliath 1-5 in it, so I assume the other stories have Giant Men. Hopefully it's mostly on unlimited (Black Goliath is). edit: the rest of the essentials book is ant-man Quotey fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 11:52
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As a huge Giant Man fan, the problem with big heroes is that somewhere along the way they invented Super Strength. 
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Mar 22, 2021 12:02
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Quotey posted:I’m in the big superhero camp. Surely Ewing could have put one in Guardians. Yeah, Ewing made Galactus into a good guy, and how much bigger can you get than Galactus?
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Mar 22, 2021 12:04
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Over half a century later, superhero comics still haven't addressed the biggest issues facing us as a society re: representation and discrimination. Very concerning.
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Mar 22, 2021 13:12
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There's no big person comics because as we know from decades of WWF, WCW, WWE, and AEW trying to get Andre the Giant, The Giant, The Big Show, Shaquille O'Neal, and Paul Wight over, it's simply impossible. Big people are not capable of doing anything more than not getting hurt by tiny wimps like Hulk Hogan, John Cena, and Cody Rhodes and shoving them over, or occasionally picking them up and dropping them, or at most using a devastatingly powerful punch. Also, it is a fact that no one likes big people, which is why they are always booed, and even when they try to be nice, they eventually stop being nice again and start getting real big. In fact, the only way someone can defeat a big person is to harness the power of 5 million Hulkamaniacs to supercharge their power or to trick them into getting beaten by their size so they step or fall through tables, which does not work when you are writing a comic about the hero who is expected to win by the end of the comic.
Endless Mike fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 13:19
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OnimaruXLR posted:BIG in comics is something that seems to have trouble working, probably just due to the deadlines involved. Scale requires lots of detail, and even talented artists have trouble with it. There's a reason that there isn't a ton of beloved giant robot manga in Japan despite... giant robots, manga, and Japan being what they are to each other. There is a ton of mecha manga, though? Going back to the beginning, Giant Robo, Getter Robo, and Mazinger Z started as manga series, and even now Gundam alone has enough manga coming out to fill a giant monthly manga magazine. Most of it doesn't get to America, maybe because even American manga licensors believe that American comic readers can't accept big things.
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Mar 22, 2021 13:26
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X-O posted:Yes, Big Non Big Hero is definitely at work here lobbying in the background. Big Small
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Mar 22, 2021 13:36
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I think that's just a scale issue. Japan is 1/20th the area so the robots seem bigger. in America they're just another terrain feature.
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Mar 22, 2021 13:36
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Wr can't have big person comics because Mark Miller blew 3 of them up with missiles and killed the big man comic hero in that instant. Edit: millat also blew a hole through bill's chest with lightning. I'm convinced he killed stature too.
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Mar 22, 2021 14:06
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Giant robots aren't really a good analogy because they are either fighting other giant robots or giant monsters, since that's how those universes are set up. Most Marvel villains are NOT giants, so writers either have to create a bunch of new giant villains to fight, or you have a giant beating up normal sized people, which is not a particularly heroic action. Having Captain Gundam use their giant robot to fight random people would be really dumb and bad.
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Mar 22, 2021 14:23
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the first couple issues where Hank Pym is Giant Man rule because most of the conflict is him thinking like "didn't count on -- sucking so bad -- at standing up" and then getting really dizzy and bonking his head
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Mar 22, 2021 14:26
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