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People who hate London tend to assume it's all Canary Wharf.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:41
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MikeCrotch posted:I find the hate for London in general by leftists very strange - London has been the consistent bastion of the left for like a century and was the one place outside of the North West that stayed solid for Corbyn. London has way more socialist and radical credentials than say, Yorkshire, which rubs me the wrong way how some people from the North talk about the capital. It’s not a hatred of London, it’s a hatred of the fact that they get a nationalised and awesome public transport system, when the rest of the country is told how impossible it is to even get a combination bus and train weekly ticket. That’s before you even get in to the cost of a train ticket to go to all of the free museums and galleries London has. (What will super piss northern people off more is when some melt points at a lovely gallery in Manchester and goes “what you complaining about you have that”) I bet you 50p London hate way less in places like the half of Sheffield with the supertram or York with the national transport museum for example. This is not an argument to give London less, but to fix the northern transport system.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:50
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I'll admit the only time I've walked through Canary Wharf, in those brief moments, I believed the tankies are correct.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:52
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Canary Wharf is a hell of a lot nicer and more down to earth than Westminster and the City.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:54
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Noxville posted:It’s getting more than a little fashy at the moment what with the protest bill, the travellers bill, the asylum reforms and the incessant flag shagging. Like, just the last few days have felt REALLY bad https://twitter.com/jlj952/status/1374759068804526082?s=20 Broken Britain.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:55
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Reveilled posted:An advisory referendum that is boycotted by all unionists will not send a clear message in my view, especially when the previous referendum had a turnout of 85%. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's a difference between what people will say now in terms of whether the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold a referendum, and what they will say afterward if the No campaign is "stay home and boycott this sham" and the result comes in 98% Yes on a 45% turnout or similar. Similar, but no. I don't think Cameron had any plan for how to handle 2014 if Yes won. It's easy to say that with the hindsight of the Brexit vote though. I think the SNP winning a majority in a parliament designed to avoid returning a majority did send a clear message, so there wasn't any reasonable argument against the referendum. I don't think it's far fetched to say that had Yes won, Cameron would have resigned, Salmond would have set as many wheels in motion as possible before a new PM could perform any damage control, momentum would have carried Scotland out and probably the bitterness would have made everybody miserable. Certainly at the time it felt very much that Yes meant Yes, I imagined it might take a long time to actually cut things over but I couldn't imagine Yes winning and then being blocked on a technicality. But that was 2014, and the no reasonable argument against part meant something then. Cameron knew that he didn't need to be honest, but he believed he had to sound reasonable when he pushed through austerity, for example. The Tories learned from Leave that actually you don't even need to be reasonable at all so long as you're willing to repeat the lie. That tactic has carried Johnson to PM and he's going to keep using it forever until it stops working. I do agree with you though that 45% turnout on a partially boycotted referendum would not be a clear message by itself. That's why Sturgeon keeps talking about a mandate, to try and make the referendum be the reasonable position. Anywhere else that would be pretty much impossible with the weight of the media on the other side, but in Scotland's case the vast majority of the Scottish Tories and SLab are so monumentally incompetent and out of touch that they'll end up playing into her hands. Sarwar actually seems to have just enough nous to avoid falling into a trap but if they lose more seats this year he'll be irrelevant anyway. e: Anyway I'm happy to park it there, I know indy chat leads to trouble in this thread and I'm not dead set on it myself. I just think that although Sturgeon is unlikely to get the same legal basis for a referendum as the last one, that doesn't make independence itself unlikely at this point. Scikar fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Mar 24, 2021 |
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Mar 24, 2021 21:55
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I once heard an anecdote, that I have no reason to disbelieve, that the RADAR keys that lock disabled toilets were invented because wankers in Canary Wharf would not stop doing coke in the disabled toilets and someone came up with the keys as a solution - back then you couldn’t just order one off the internet
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Mar 24, 2021 21:56
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stev posted:Canary Wharf is a hell of a lot nicer and more down to earth than Westminster and the City. I assume if went there I'd just explode into a bunch of Stalin busts.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:59
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OwlFancier posted:Can confirm yorkshire is full of horrible people. Hey! I lived in London for over a decade. I did my goddamn time. gently caress the poxy, expensive South.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:00
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I have lived in London (fae Dundee) for 10 years and I love the place, bit holy crap how annoying it must be for everyone North of Reading to have the media basically ignore anything outside of the M25 ring. It even annoys me and I live here.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:03
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learnincurve posted:I bet you 50p London hate way less in places like... York with the national transport museum for example. When I'm waiting for my stupid expensive non existent bus I'm like thank Christ we've got a free museum about how 100 years ago we had travel and transport sorted!
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Mar 24, 2021 22:06
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Zalakwe posted:I have lived in London (fae Dundee) for 10 years and I love the place, bit holy crap how annoying it must be for everyone North of Reading to have the media basically ignore anything outside of the M25 ring. It even annoys me and I live here. That would require travelling outside of the Greater London area, and journalists only do that when popping off to the Cotswolds or Cornwall for lovely hollibobs.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:06
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MikeCrotch posted:I find the hate for London in general by leftists very strange - London has been the consistent bastion of the left for like a century and was the one place outside of the North West that stayed solid for Corbyn. London has way more socialist and radical credentials than say, Yorkshire, which rubs me the wrong way how some people from the North talk about the capital. I dunno if people really hate Londoners per se, it’s the vampiric city itself draining all money, talent and opportunities from the rest of the country.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:07
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Noxville posted:I dunno if people really hate Londoners per se, it’s the vampiric city itself draining all money, talent and opportunities from the rest of the country. That and its a bloody hellpit. I miss it so badly. I just couldn't live there anymore.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:10
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I wonder if I will ever go there before I die.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:11
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Z the IVth posted:Waiting for the law that makes it mandatory to have portraits of the Queen and PM in every room. does it count if they're on toilet roll
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Mar 24, 2021 22:11
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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There's no such thing as London
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Mar 24, 2021 22:13
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Rare sighting of this particular UK flag here in Vermont today Nice pairing there.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:18
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MikeCrotch posted:I find the hate for London in general by leftists very strange - London has been the consistent bastion of the left for like a century and was the one place outside of the North West that stayed solid for Corbyn. London has way more socialist and radical credentials than say, Yorkshire, which rubs me the wrong way how some people from the North talk about the capital. Thatcher government and MI5 literally recruited gangsters and cops to go to war with the miners in Yorkshire.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:18
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learnincurve posted:I once heard an anecdote, that I have no reason to disbelieve, that the RADAR keys that lock disabled toilets were invented because wankers in Canary Wharf would not stop doing coke in the disabled toilets and someone came up with the keys as a solution - back then you couldn’t just order one off the internet RADAR keys predate the Canary Wharf development by about 10 years
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Mar 24, 2021 22:18
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God now that's a loving cursed flag combination. I'm guessing it's some prick bulging every vein in their neck over Markle's interview.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:19
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Tesseraction posted:I'll admit the only time I've walked through Canary Wharf, in those brief moments, I believed the tankies are correct. Now imagine having had that poo poo dropped on your doorstep. I still remember at primary school being told how many jobs it was going to bring and how amazing it was all going to be; of all the people I went to primary school with, and friends in the area made since, I know of four people with permanent employment there - two security guards, one post room, one hair stylist. Oh I had a few months as a kitchen porter there after I left school, yay me. If anything - because to make way for the shiny-suit brigade they obliterated every single other employer in the area apart from the Asda - the job prospects for a kid born in E14 are worse now than they were for someone leaving school the year they closed the docks. At least there was still *some* industry around here - in 1987, the year they opened the DLR, my dad and oldest brother were working in a furniture factory, my middle brother in a little factory that did rubber mouldings (fnarr), my mum in an insurance office and my sister had just started work in a shop, all 5 minutes walk or less from home. Those places are now a 37-storey residential block, a 55-story residential block, a low-rise office block (about to be demolished and replaced with a 48-storey student accommodation block), and a land-banked plot currently being used as temporary accommodation for builders working on the site of a I-can't-even-remember-how-many stories hotel next door. These are just the *big* things, not even the myriad tiny annoyances, like the fact I'm living basically on a building site so everything gets covered in concrete dust (gently caress knows what that's doing to my lungs but the fags probably aren't helping there) and am forever having to replace tyres because bolts and poo poo keep getting embedded in them. Aha, you might think, at least you've now got public transport, which is sort-of true - when I was a kid there were 3 bus routes off the Island, and now we've got...4. Hooray. Yes, there's the DLR and the Jubilee Line, but guess what? They - and all those bus routes - all go through Canary Wharf and so are unusable, even in these locked-down times, during rush hour, and because Canary Wharf somehow manages to get more legal freedom than the City, I can at any time be refused access to the entire estate for any reason or no reason, meaning I'd actually have to walk a mile just to get to a bus stop (and can go gently caress myself if I want to use a non-bus), and that's on days when they've not arbitrarily decided to block all pedestrian access. Plus of course there's the running war to keep what little we've got. No sooner do we see off the 4,000th attempt to build over the tiny amounts of green space we have left or just demolish every council block on the Island (thank *gently caress* for the GFC) than we notice, while our back was turned, they've just demolished an entire terrace of houses that were locally listed as the only survivors of the Blitz "by mistake" and also, entirely mistakenly, managed to remove every last brick and "forget" where they went, doing all this literally over a bank holiday weekend. We eventually had to give up on keeping any good pubs open - those old 19th-century buildings are worth far, far more as flats, boutique hotels, and (I don't even understand this one) a gym, leaving us with only a flatroof that's too toxic even for the vampires and a couple where the breweries - in a rejecting the Beatles way - sold the freeholds to the landlords in the 70s, but ever more ridiculous sums of money are being waved at the owners of the Nelson and the George and they're not young, eventually they're going to succumb and that'll be it. Listen, I know there are a lot of places that are in way, way worse shape than E14 and I don't pretend for a moment I don't have a massive amount of privilege in a lot of ways through sheer accident of birth, but it *does* really get to me when people who should be comrades treat me like a piece of poo poo just because my parents happened to gently caress in the right borough at the right time.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:24
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London sounds absolutely horrible but that just makes me feel bad for the normal people who have to live in it, and I hope one day they decapitate all the rich people and turn it into something less horrible sounding.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:27
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Try substituting rich people for travellers and see how that sounds.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:30
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Substituting all the rich people for travellers sound fine to me too, just so long as you get rid of the rich people.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:32
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MikeCrotch posted:I find the hate for London in general by leftists very strange - London has been the consistent bastion of the left for like a century and was the one place outside of the North West that stayed solid for Corbyn. London has way more socialist and radical credentials than say, Yorkshire, which rubs me the wrong way how some people from the North talk about the capital. Fucksake, this has been gone over four hundred times in this thread before. The problem isn't a hatred of London per se as much as it is quite how Londoncentric this country is. It is a black hole that attracts investment at the expense of everywhere else, in the 20 years from 1998 to 2018 London's share of the national GDP has risen from 18% to nearly 25%. It's bad OP. It's not about how you vote, left-wing politics has more to it than a tribal identification with other people who vote like me. London has affordable, reliable & relative to the rest of us, quick public transport. It is the cultural, political, economic centre of the country in a way that is bad for people who aren't in London & is bad for people who are working class & in London because they get priced out of being able to live there. It's not a hatred of London, or of Londoners, so much as the political & economic realities that come from London being treated as the be-all, end-all of the United Kingdom for 4 decades. It's unsustainable, especially with London housing as extortionate as it is. Would I be willing to move to London if I could afford it? Honestly, at this point of my life? Maybe, I dunno, my gut reaction is that it's too big for my tastes but if I had a job offer tomorrow & I could live somewhere bigger than a shoebox, probably? But I'd also like if we did a little more for the regions?
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Mar 24, 2021 22:35
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Although I also hate London.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:36
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There are a lot of extremely valid criticism of London and London-centrism but the public transport one is really dumb. Yes it has a good public transport system, that's because it's incredibly dense but also because it has to because there's almost no other viable means of travelling either into it or around it. Yes other places should have better public transport, but in its absence you get to fall back on driving your car.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:46
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peanut- posted:There are a lot of extremely valid criticism of London and London-centrism but the public transport one is really dumb. Yes it has a good public transport system, that's because it's incredibly dense but also because it has to because there's almost no other viable means of travelling either into it or around it. If you have one. Last I checked driving had some steep upfront costs.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:49
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You do if you can afford one, or rather you do if you can not afford other things in order to afford a car you hate.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:50
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goddamnedtwisto posted:
Is the George the same one that's been split in half to segregate the locals from the wankers? I love that place (having mostly only spent time in the wanker half).
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Mar 24, 2021 22:51
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Although I also hate London. It's too big and it makes your snot black.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:53
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Unkempt posted:Rare sighting of this particular UK flag here in Vermont today
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Mar 24, 2021 22:59
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Bit much to criticise someone as being anti-British when you're wearing a Norwegian flag on your head. Shuffle off back to your Oslo troll factory, "Josh".
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Mar 24, 2021 23:05
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Bobby Deluxe posted:You want unpleasantly aggy, head over to the D&D 5e thread and say you like a specific aspect of the game. Hoo boy do they have opinions. lol at trying to muddy the waters for when people say "god the D&D thread's really fruitlessly angry all the time isn't it"
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Mar 24, 2021 23:09
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goddamnedtwisto posted:in 1987, the year they opened the DLR, my dad and oldest brother were working in a furniture factory, my middle brother in a little factory that did rubber mouldings (fnarr), my mum in an insurance office and my sister had just started work in a shop, all 5 minutes walk or less from home. Those places are now a 37-storey residential block, a 55-story residential block, a low-rise office block (about to be demolished and replaced with a 48-storey student accommodation block), and a land-banked plot currently being used as temporary accommodation for builders working on the site of a I-can't-even-remember-how-many stories hotel next door. This sort of thing really makes me mad/sad. The last time I drove down south to visit my Mum in the Before Times we took the cross-country route off the motorway at Winchester and drove through the bit of countryside on the edge of the South Downs where I did most of my growing up. In the village where I used to live, the roll call of amenities and business goes: Two pubs (of four) - closed, now houses (one building demolished with it and its garden/car park replaced by three new builds) Independent garage - closed, demolished and replaced by a house Family-owned factory which made shopping baskets/trolleys and other things using bent wire - shut, demolished, replaced by new houses. Next village down the road: Pub - gone, turned into a house. Shop/Post Office - gone, turned into a house Independent garage/Renault dealership - gone, demolished, now a cluster of new-builds Yard and offices for a small haulage firm - gone, demolished, now a cluster of new-builds Next village: Shop - closed, turned into a house Family firm selling heating oil, hydraulic fluid and red diesel - closed, now a KTM bike dealership. Next village: Pub (one of two) - closed, now a house. Firm rebuilding diesel injection equipment for tractors/trucks etc. - closed, premises derelict. Village shop - closed, now a house. Barbers shop - closed, now a house. Smallholding owned by an indestructibly ancient man with a thick 'Ampshire 'Og dialect who horded rusty Morris Minors and paid us local kids to collect apples in the orchard - gone, now several houses. Next village: Doctor's surgery - closed, now an estate agent's office Methodist chapel - closed, now a house Independent garage - closed, now a house Family-owned tractor dealership - closed, half the site sold for housing, the rest a SCATS outlet. Antique/bric-a-brac shop - closed, now a house Independent builder's merchant yard - closed, now occupied by several new houses. And so on and so on. All these things that helped make these villages self-sufficient and distinct communities just wiped out in the past 10-15 years or so. Now they're basically just clusters of Nocturnal Worker Accomodation Units for people working in Portsmouth or Southampton, which just perpetuates the cycle. If you were born and bred in one of these villages and didn't fancy getting a job - or couldn't get a job - that paid well enough to cover the costs of commuting approx. 1 hour away by car (or 2 hours or more on a sporadic bus service which I imagine has only become more sporadic and less useful since I last lived there) you'd be utterly screwed.
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Mar 24, 2021 23:29
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BalloonFish posted:This sort of thing really makes me mad/sad. The last time I drove down south to visit my Mum in the Before Times we took the cross-country route off the motorway at Winchester and drove through the bit of countryside on the edge of the South Downs where I did most of my growing up. Yeah i can totally emphasise with all this. Although I would say its been happening longer than 15 years. I'm building a new house in a semi rural community I guess you'd say, so I'm not sure I'm not guilty of some of the stuff your talking about . Theres still a pub but it isnt the same type as it would have been. The neighbour to my plot is in his 80s. I've covid told him not to but he brings me cups of tea everyday but more than that a story of how the village used to be. I honestly see our probably daily chats as historically important for the village. NotJustANumber99 fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Mar 24, 2021 |
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Mar 24, 2021 23:32
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stev posted:Is the George the same one that's been split in half to segregate the locals from the wankers? I love that place (having mostly only spent time in the wanker half). It's not a new segragation, just the old public bar/saloon division that all pubs of that age have, even tiny ones. But yeah, the fact one door faces the docks and one the estate made that particularly handy.
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Mar 24, 2021 23:41
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Now imagine having had that poo poo dropped on your doorstep. Yeah FWIW it's the disparity on display that got to me - the cokeheads with their bloody diamond stores so close to the deliberately-hidden-from-view neighbourhoods of the ne'er-do-wells. As I say - living in London can be a life of luxury but for the vast majority it's an expensive making GBS threads nightmare while a bunch of undeserving cockheads float uncaringly through life. Which is why I live in the Greater London Area where it's all as depressing but the pay is poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2021 00:05
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lol this guy looks like Tony Blair through an age filter https://twitter.com/nickolester/status/1374820195844423687
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Mar 25, 2021 00:06
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