(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I’m positive that within the next five years we’ll find out that twitter is as bad for you as smoking or having a gun in the house. The past 5 years has me sure that some day we're gonna look at social media use like how everyone smoked. Too many people have lost their god drat mind interacting with it for me to think otherwise.
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Mar 28, 2021 17:22
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StratGoatCom posted:In other news contra makes me sad because i think she makes a bunch of good points about stuff but than she gets lovely/weird about NB folk and other LGBT issues and now she is diving into this. like most people who get BIG canceled are actual weird rear end in a top hat/legit monsters like the reddit mod. like someone said, just log off and focus on better stuff and not weird online drama. Antifa Turkeesian posted:The idea that there’s some reservoir of racists whites who would otherwise join a mass labor movement is astounding to me. Even if they accurately perceive some aspects of the problem, racist whites already have their own violent, antihuman solutions and have been enacting them for a while. They want to kill us almost as badly as they want to kill everyone else. i sorta suspect some of it is a weird "i want to convert my parents/love me daddy" type deal. but thats just me. basicaly, i think that some of them believe if they just sacrifice enough social progressive stuff, than dad will sign on with bernie and smile at them again. that and weird fucks like dore and coffin and such think hate AOC because she didnt kiss ted cruzes rear end after trying to get her killed. DoctorWhat posted:I do not believe that there is meaningful overlap between K-Hive BlueMaga and "cancel culture" teens. 
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Mar 28, 2021 17:31
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DoctorWhat posted:I do not believe that there is meaningful overlap between K-Hive BlueMaga and "cancel culture" teens. One grows up to become the other.
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Mar 28, 2021 17:44
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You have no evidence of this. You are conflating two groups of people you detest in order to establish, in your mind and for the benefit of an audience, a singular enemy.
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Mar 28, 2021 17:54
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The idea that there’s some reservoir of racists whites who would otherwise join a mass labor movement is astounding to me. Even if they accurately perceive some aspects of the problem, racist whites already have their own violent, antihuman solutions and have been enacting them for a while. They want to kill us almost as badly as they want to kill everyone else. I mean, there are plenty of white racists that would join mass labor movements if it were willing to still oppress minorities. We have the history of the labor movement in this country prior to 1950 as pretty solid proof of that. Or if you need an example of that today, just look at France, where there’s a major constituency of folks with very leftist views on labor and economics who are also extremely racist and xenophobic.
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Mar 28, 2021 17:59
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IronicDongz posted:I have aggressively curated my twitter feed so it's essentially just art and pics of tasty food, which is imo the only remotely healthy way to use the platform Same. For a while I went into the comment section of people like Anita Sarkeesian and just blocked the poo poo out of all the chuds. Likewise with the comment section of any British article that posted something positive about trans people. After a year my timeline is pristine.
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Mar 28, 2021 18:01
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LanceHunter posted:I mean, there are plenty of white racists that would join mass labor movements if it were willing to still oppress minorities. We have the history of the labor movement in this country prior to 1950 as pretty solid proof of that. Or if you need an example of that today, just look at France, where there’s a major constituency of folks with very leftist views on labor and economics who are also extremely racist and xenophobic. Most of Europe is that way, really
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Mar 28, 2021 18:01
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DoctorWhat posted:You have no evidence of this. You are conflating two groups of people you detest in order to establish, in your mind and for the benefit of an audience, a singular enemy. They act the same on twitter.
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Mar 28, 2021 18:02
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DoctorWhat posted:You have no evidence of this. You are conflating two groups of people you detest in order to establish, in your mind and for the benefit of an audience, a singular enemy. Where is your evidence? You wouldn't happen to have a scientific or two tucked under your shoulder, would you?
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Mar 28, 2021 18:04
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Blue Maga make endless excuses for the status quo and its injustices; Cancel Teens are characterized by how unchritable they are in their judgements. These seem like opposite phenomenon, to me. Like, lemme put it this way Blue Maga/KHive > Ravenously defend avatars and architects of a neoliberal status quo from criticism > Are socially and economically well-positioned within neoliberal capitalism > Use and abuse the language of social justice disingenuously >> In order to "speak to the manager" and remove targets from social environments/impose economic precarity/deplatform political rivals Cancel Teens > Ravenously and uncharitably prosecute figures they see as perpetuating social injustice (racism, transphobia) > Are socially or economically precarious, struggle with disenfranchisement and powerlessness except through the medium of callout posts > Use and abuse the language of social justice disingenuously >> In order to impose pressure/convince "the masses" to join them in excommunicating targets from social environments/impose economic precarity/deplatform political rivals Both are bad. Both are dysfunctional. Both indicate a systemic rot and use similar tactics. Not the same dynamic. Not the same demographic. Lumping them together limits our ability to address each phenomenon effectively. DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Mar 28, 2021 |
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Mar 28, 2021 18:05
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They're the same though. The only difference is time. Both sides care about progressive movements but only when it benefits them. For Blue Maga, its to smear political enemies, to look cool and hip to their peers, and sabotage movements that threaten the life to which they have become accustomed. For Cancel teens, its to smear people they don't like, to look cool and hip to their peers, and to deal with clicks that they don't like. When these movements threaten them or someone they like, they are immediately dropped. I guess you could say that there are more Cancel Teens that genuinely believe what they believe, but to me that's semantics. Edit: To adress your edited post DoctorWhat, it wouldn't surprise me if both groups predominantly came from suburbs. That's a pretty big potential demographic similarity to me. Clip-On Fedora fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 28, 2021 |
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Mar 28, 2021 18:16
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Oh just post a picture of a horseshoe and be done with it
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Mar 28, 2021 18:18
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Actually, its a ratchet and stopper, but I wouldn't want to kick the hornets nest anymore than I have. Kind of funny to use horseshoe theory in this context though.
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Mar 28, 2021 18:24
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I agree with the ratchet-and-pawl metaphor for US Electoral politics. I don't agree with its deplolyment here.
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Mar 28, 2021 18:28
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Big angry twitter mobs that don’t care about the issues beyond using them as a cudgel belong to every ideology
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Mar 28, 2021 18:33
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There’s a case to be made that all those kids getting big into online enthusiasm through corporate product like Disney movies are being prepared for a reduced moral imagination and a lifetime of capitalist consumption, as their political enthusiasm is being directed to empty questions like “is Black Panther anticapitalist” and “how is Captain Marvel revolutionary.” Like, there’s an extreme rigidity to the worldview that considers The Last Jedi the totality of possibility for art and politics. I can see a certain continuity with the Khive specifically in how energy projected outward at a rotating list of impure enemies prevents the poster from having to reflect on the self and ways they might be complicit in bad things or have made mistakes. Not that I should talk, as I loved tons of dumb poo poo as a teen that I thought laid out the entirety of moral possibility.
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Mar 28, 2021 18:33
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Contra is never going to recover from being "cancelled" by loving randoms on twitter
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Mar 28, 2021 18:38
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DoctorWhat posted:I agree with the ratchet-and-pawl metaphor for US Electoral politics. I don't agree with its deplolyment here. Agreed. That was more addressed at Kim Justice's horseshoe theory comment. It was genuinely confusing to me. Thank you for clarifying your point, and I honestly I think we are on the same page. But I think there's still a lot of similarities in their dynamic, and demographically I think both groups are mostly suburbanites. Anyway, I don't think we are going to agree on certain points for this issue. Antifa Turkeesian posted:There’s a case to be made that all those kids getting big into online enthusiasm through corporate product like Disney movies are being prepared for a reduced moral imagination and a lifetime of capitalist consumption, as their political enthusiasm is being directed to empty questions like “is Black Panther anticapitalist” and “how is Captain Marvel revolutionary.” Like, there’s an extreme rigidity to the worldview that considers The Last Jedi the totality of possibility for art and politics. That's something that really worries and depresses me honestly. I had similar experiences as a kid. Honestly I think the biggest difference between Blue Maga and Cancel Teens is that a lot of Cancel Teens are genuinely trying to do good, but they don't know how, because they're goofy teens.
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Mar 28, 2021 18:57
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Thanks for being more civil and charitable to me than I was to you, COF. I guess my last coda on the subject is that, especially for queer teenagers, "suburbia" and "comfort" are not the same thing, and many live in fear of being outed or disowned, which contributes to their maladaptive behavior.
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Mar 28, 2021 19:04
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DoctorWhat posted:Thanks for being more civil and charitable to me than I was to you, COF. I guess my last coda on the subject is that, especially for queer teenagers, "suburbia" and "comfort" are not the same thing, and many live in fear of being outed or disowned, which contributes to their maladaptive behavior. As a trans person, yeah this. Also as a trans person, I immediately give the side-eye to anyone mad about "idpol". 99 times out of 100 it's just someone who still wants to be racist or transphobic in my experience. Not saying Clip On Fedora is a bigot. Just saying thats my (and many others) lived experience so there's a reason you'll instantly get pushback to anti idpol comments
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Mar 28, 2021 19:13
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I mean it's one thing to be against the neolib "hire more female drone operators!" idpol stuff. That's different. But just saying "idpol is bad" with no clarification, that's always kinda sus to me.
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Mar 28, 2021 19:17
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i think its kinda more than just politics though, i think its always a mix of teens with issues and bluemaga types and weird puritan types and people who are genuinly annoyed and want the person to fix themselves and also trolls pretending. i am a massive hypocrite on this but i dont think you can fully taxonomy mobs like this like you can ones that have to do with "big political" stuff like the khive clowns or maga 6th assholes even if they have some mechanical simularities. it also depends on the person who is the target or did the gently caress up and just personal preference of the people in the mob. its this. thetoughestbean posted:Big angry twitter mobs that don’t care about the issues beyond using them as a cudgel belong to every ideology if bloods in the water, sharks will find a reason to feed. Antifa Turkeesian posted:There’s a case to be made that all those kids getting big into online enthusiasm through corporate product like Disney movies are being prepared for a reduced moral imagination and a lifetime of capitalist consumption, as their political enthusiasm is being directed to empty questions like “is Black Panther anticapitalist” and “how is Captain Marvel revolutionary.” Like, there’s an extreme rigidity to the worldview that considers The Last Jedi the totality of possibility for art and politics. yeah. i think alot of folks think media critique is the be all and end all of praxis. it doesnt help that alot of media critiques tends to be either super shallow and or super dumb and always trends over the same well blown apart ground filled with beaten horses. its why i liked the killzone series critque. it was something weird and different and said poo poo Goons had been saying for years. i like weird and different poo poo. Jamie Faith posted:I mean it's one thing to be against the neolib "hire more female drone operators!" idpol stuff. That's different. But just saying "idpol is bad" with no clarification, that's always kinda sus to me. yeah. there are a sad amount of weird "lefty" types who really really want than red-brown alliance to become a thing at the expense of any minority because they saw Shanadoah(2012) and took the wrong message from it. https://vimeo.com/53805221 good documentry but depressing as hell since you can see all the "this is how we got trump" warning signs. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Mar 28, 2021 |
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Mar 28, 2021 19:22
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I was playing Monster Hunter this weekend, and I'm trying to catch-up, but I'm getting that a bunch of teens confused themselves into thinking Lindsay Ellis is racist for thinking something was similar to Avatar? I'm really struggling to get the escalation to be honest.
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Mar 28, 2021 19:32
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For the first time in like 10 pages, I bring you C O N T E N T! Thew Adams: The Bayverse B-List Rando Rodeo! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9AV_Ukzsg&ab_channel=ThewAdams
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Mar 28, 2021 19:33
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thank god that i haven't understood a single word in the past 2 pages
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Mar 28, 2021 19:37
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Bug Squash posted:I was playing Monster Hunter this weekend, and I'm trying to catch-up, but I'm getting that a bunch of teens confused themselves into thinking Lindsay Ellis is racist for thinking something was similar to Avatar? I'm really struggling to get the escalation to be honest. 1. Lindsay put out a tweet saying there should be a genre for YA fiction that's ripping off Avatar the Last Airbender, and pointed to a particular movie written by Asians as an example (Raya and the Last Dragon). 2. An Asian-American creator wrote a thread in response venting about how Avatar was written by white guys and it sucks so many people lump stuff written by actual Asians in with it because Avatar appropriated so many Asiatic elements. 3. Instead of just ignoring it and letting this person vent or apologizing, Lindsay doubled down with some smarmy tweets, one of which used the phrase "if you squint", which caused people to jump on her for being a secret racist. 4. A ton of other people who have unrelated beef with Lindsay came crawling out of the woodwork to hop on the bandwagon and call her out for being terrible 5. Lindsay took down her twitter and then put out a post on patreon saying she's going to take time away from social media because she realizes it's turned into somebody who overreacts and gets snippy with people instead of actually engaging with them. 6. This thread resultantly became a hell dimension for a dozen or so pages.
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Mar 28, 2021 19:40
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Bonaventure posted:thank god that i haven't understood a single word in the past 2 pages
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Mar 28, 2021 19:46
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Sydin posted:1. Lindsay put out a tweet saying there should be a genre for YA fiction that's ripping off Avatar the Last Airbender, and pointed to a particular movie written by Asians as an example (Raya and the Last Dragon).
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Mar 28, 2021 19:46
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DoctorWhat posted:Thanks for being more civil and charitable to me than I was to you, COF. I guess my last coda on the subject is that, especially for queer teenagers, "suburbia" and "comfort" are not the same thing, and many live in fear of being outed or disowned, which contributes to their maladaptive behavior. Oh yeah, most definitely. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. Jamie Faith posted:I mean it's one thing to be against the neolib "hire more female drone operators!" idpol stuff. That's different. But just saying "idpol is bad" with no clarification, that's always kinda sus to me. In my experience, people online who are "deeply concerned about Class Reductionism" almost always turn out to be people like Moviebob and, well, Lindsay Ellis. Not saying its always true, but it definitely raises a red flag in my mind whenever someone brings it up. That being said, pieces of poo poo like Aimee Terese and Vaush can go straight to hell.
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Mar 28, 2021 19:50
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Clip-On Fedora posted:In my experience, people online who are "deeply concerned about Class Reductionism" almost always turn out to be people like Moviebob and, well, Lindsay Ellis. Not saying its always true, but it definitely raises a red flag in my mind whenever someone brings it up. That being said, pieces of poo poo like Aimee Terese and Vaush can go straight to hell. Ok well I think we're on the same page then 
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Mar 28, 2021 19:54
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wahey, a productive conversation! everyone go watch the Thew video jamie posted now
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Mar 28, 2021 19:56
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Let's look at some cute puppers to calm down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dni9umj0Os
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Mar 28, 2021 20:12
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DoctorWhat posted:wahey, a productive conversation! everyone go watch the Thew video jamie posted now  This new Thew was made for me. I got into TF collecting solely for the bayverse figs, and even tho I eventually branched out into G1 and learned to appreciate other styles, Bayverse will always be my favorite incarnation of Transformers. It also made me happy he was bringing up the first game alot too! I always thought that it was so cool they made toys out of the random mooks from the game lol I still replay the movie verse video games all the time too. Seems like when people talk about TF games, its always only the War for/Fall of Cybertron games and sometimes Devastation, but never the movie verse games. Probably because GEE WUN or whatever but the bayverse games are really good actually. Well, the first game is a bit of clunky mess but still has a lot of charm imo and the Revenge of the Fallen game is my all-time favorite TF game.  really wish we got more TF games in that style. Or more movie verse games at all 
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Mar 28, 2021 20:18
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i sorta suspect some of it is a weird "i want to convert my parents/love me daddy" type deal. but thats just me. basicaly, i think that some of them believe if they just sacrifice enough social progressive stuff, than dad will sign on with bernie and smile at them again. that and weird fucks like dore and coffin and such think hate AOC because she didnt kiss ted cruzes rear end after trying to get her killed. Really it's amazing on the labor front how we don't learn from history; Labor could have been in a much stronger position if black workers were allowed in the organizing instead of being ostracized and hated for being strikebreakers because the labor movement allowed the bosses to use them that way!
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Mar 28, 2021 20:18
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Jamie Faith posted:I mean it's one thing to be against the neolib "hire more female drone operators!" idpol stuff. That's different. But just saying "idpol is bad" with no clarification, that's always kinda sus to me. I'd argue that in its current form, idpol is bad, not on the basis of it being, "racism bad, racial diversity and unity good", but because it seems like it's not bringing people together, but just serving to further drives wedges between groups and raise tensions. Like you can complain about class reductionism and red-brown alliances and whatnot, and there are valid points to be made, but I think the underlying idea of those stances is that if (or when) you ease racial tensions and convert people back from fascism, then you unite people to take down the elite and improve the lives of everyone. As it is now, idpol gets co-opted by rich fucks and corpo cocksuckers who promote stuff like, "McDonalds is a progressive burger company", "Hire more female guards", "More POC CEOs!" Then you've got poo poo like Krysten Sinema and the 8 other Democrats who voted 'no' on waging, which is even more infuriating because I think some of them campaigned on that promise. Even AOC seems to be turning against the socialist movement, something that I was led to believe she was pushing for. It's like, "Hey, these institutions are bigoted!" "So should we destroy these institutions?" "No, I think it's just a matter of putting the right kind of people in charge to fix it!" Something something master's tools won't dismantle master's house, etc. etc.
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Mar 28, 2021 20:26
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achillesforever6 posted:Ultimately I'm just cynical in that these people feel more comfortable trying to turn racists to socialism than it is confronting that to make the world a better place they will have to come to turns that their own comfort comes at exploitation. It's no coincidence that American Labor is divided and angry. If the American ruling class can be said to have one talent, its finding ways to divide people. Assuming you're just talking about Americans, of course.
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Mar 28, 2021 20:36
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Max Wilco posted:I'd argue that in its current form, idpol is bad, not on the basis of it being, "racism bad, racial diversity and unity good", but because it seems like it's not bringing people together, but just serving to further drives wedges between groups and raise tensions. except the fascists arnt acting in good faith at all and will shoot you in the back of the head the second. so pushing minorities and their plights under the bus just because of corpo woke culture exists and some hope that "well this time the fascists and reactionary fucks like ted cruz, will work with us" is loving stupid. i am sorry. and no offense but your logic leans pretty strasserite. achillesforever6 posted:Ultimately I'm just cynical in that these people feel more comfortable trying to turn racists to socialism than it is confronting that to make the world a better place they will have to come to turns that their own comfort comes at exploitation. there is a very good play on that whole shitshow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icx4B-JsXN0&t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5WothsIQOA
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Mar 28, 2021 20:44
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I would say anyone dismissing either is a bit suspect, but idpol is the one capitalism can actually utilize as a cover so it’s the one that gets more negative focus. It’s usually white guys who cannot stop complaining about identity politics that you maybe should be wary of. Really, (sincere) identity politics is about fixing the problems capitalism has now, and class reductionism is about focusing on the cause of the problem, and that causes natural tension within a movement. Also, I have no idea what the hell a khive or red-brown alliance is, so maybe I finally disconnected enough from twitter.
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Mar 28, 2021 20:44
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Pants Donkey posted:I would say anyone dismissing either is a bit suspect, but idpol is the one capitalism can actually utilize as a cover so it’s the one that gets more negative focus. It’s usually white guys who cannot stop complaining about identity politics that you maybe should be wary of. khive is kamla supporters who are assholes and are too online/etc, i am sure they are weird fucks who act like weird cultest dipshits and are the next clintonites but i havent followed them. Red-brown alliance is lefty and fascist working together to "make poo poo better" dumb fucks like peter coffin and dore make positive noises about it as does glenn greenwald and some others. a ton got mad because AOC told ted cruz to gently caress off after the 6th on twitter when he made some bad faith outreach to her because she rightfully is mad at him for helping kick off the insurrection. dore and greenwald and peter and other sacks of poo poo got mad at her and said a bunch of hosed up poo poo about her. gently caress em. gently caress anyone who wants to make parley with the fascists. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 28, 2021 |
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Mar 28, 2021 20:51
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Clip-On Fedora posted:It's no coincidence that American Labor is divided and angry. If the American ruling class can be said to have one talent, its finding ways to divide people. One of the Fun Facts about labor history I find kinda disturbing in a cultural way is how redneck, which originally described striking miners who were radically pro-solidarity in anti-racism, is now a term used to describe a specific stereotype of impoverished racists from the country.
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Mar 28, 2021 20:54
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